Page 8 | To think this is more than enough maintenance to raise a child? (Friend conflict)

Bessyioo · 2023-01-20T21:49:10+00:00

My very close friend was left when her dc was 1. It was brutal, he was having an affair with one of our other friends in our group. She is now paid 1,050 in child maintenance. However, all I hear is how she is on the ‘back foot’ financially as she is on her own and a lot of our conversation is about how he should be providing more as he is a high earner. She has her own home and I don’t even have a mortgage yet! I may be being sensitive as I feel i struggle financially but surely surely anyone can see that that is a lot of money and pays for everything the child needs?!

SuperHandss · 21/01/2023 17:06

Bessyioo · 20/01/2023 22:05

@3WildOnes i do support her! But surely part of doing that is telling her that she will be ok? That 1k a month is a huge about to buy clothes and food and trips for her child? Yes childcare is a lot but that’s only for a year.

Yes it should be but it’s 2022 & it just isn’t.

She needs new friends. One is on here whinging as she gets over this (it’s only been four months!) and another has an affair with her DP.

WhoNeedsSleepNotISaidMyBody · 21/01/2023 17:08

Bessyioo · 20/01/2023 22:05

@3WildOnes i do support her! But surely part of doing that is telling her that she will be ok? That 1k a month is a huge about to buy clothes and food and trips for her child? Yes childcare is a lot but that’s only for a year.

@Bessyioo sorry if I missed something, but why are you saying childcare is only for a year?

she has been left with the full 24/7/365/18+ care for their child, which presumably he wanted to!

she's the one whose career/earnings will suffer.

abd apart from that, she has to have a house suitable for a child, heat, feed, cloth the child for 18 years. Pay for all manner of things like uniform, school trips, extra curricular activities, holidays Birthday & Christmas presents. Money for activities with friends.

you don't have kids so perhaphs you don't really understand the sacrifices & costs involved, while he just fucks off. There's not a moment where she doesn't have to consider their child & for many years find childcare if she wants to leave the house.

maybe you can't give her the support she needs right now & that's ok, but try to understand it's not all about a bit more food shopping, cloths and days out.

Birdsbirdsbirds · 21/01/2023 17:08

NocturnalClocks · 21/01/2023 17:02

I said a drop in living standards if similar proportions.

It doesn't seem to be me that's having problems reading.

The children's welfare should come first and their living standard should not be significantly reduced to benefit a parent who has fucked off.

Yes I'm angry. I'm angry with attitudes like those you have expressed which lead to women and children being hugely disadvantaged in society. And are also one of the main reasons we have such high levels of child poverty.

My children are fine, they aren't in poverty at all. Because I pay for everything and am in a fortunate enough position to do so. That doesn't make it right though, does it, that their father does not pay half of their costs? (Any in fact but that's not the point in this thread). And many women can't provide everything without absent fathers paying their proper share. Why should children suffer because their father doesn't feel like paying his half of what it costs to raise a child? Why do you support a system where the % contributions through CMS (if any is paid at all as it's usually not enforced properly) is so low that it rarely meets his half of the costs for the child(ren)?

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We have absolutely no idea whether the drop is similar it may very well be. The ops friend may also be a high earner?

What system would actually work? Because if you've gone one that would, maybe you should get in touch with someone. The fact is it's so ambiguous it's not work outable on a large scale, it's just not. Yes, in an ideal world we'd all pay 50/50 get on amicably and live happily ever after. I think we can all agree on that.

I've said it once, which you should know because apparently you don't have problems with reading, I think the system needs to improve. Do you understand that?

TheSnowyOwl · 21/01/2023 17:10

Birdsbirdsbirds · 21/01/2023 16:58

But that's not considering any contribution from the resident parent?

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But the OP says that the amount from the non resident parent is more than enough to comfortably support the child and I was pointing out the realities.

The resident parent out of their £1000 contribution each month will spend a significant amount on things like: mortgage, household bills, food, car and fuel costs, school trips etc. Yes, they would probably have a mortgage and household bills anyway but perhaps they now have to live within a certain catchment area and have a bigger property for the child to have a bedroom so the household bills and mortgage will reflect that. The likelihood is that many don’t have change from £1000 per month and I’ve already established above that the £1000 maintenance would also already be in deficit before everything is accounted for.

Birdsbirdsbirds · 21/01/2023 17:11

TheSnowyOwl · 21/01/2023 17:10

But the OP says that the amount from the non resident parent is more than enough to comfortably support the child and I was pointing out the realities.

The resident parent out of their £1000 contribution each month will spend a significant amount on things like: mortgage, household bills, food, car and fuel costs, school trips etc. Yes, they would probably have a mortgage and household bills anyway but perhaps they now have to live within a certain catchment area and have a bigger property for the child to have a bedroom so the household bills and mortgage will reflect that. The likelihood is that many don’t have change from £1000 per month and I’ve already established above that the £1000 maintenance would also already be in deficit before everything is accounted for.

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Perhaps op is wrong that it doesn't cover everything, but it's irrelevant really as it is not supposed to.

NocturnalClocks · 21/01/2023 17:11

Even the US system is better than here, with more sensible contribution levels and properly enforced. It's not difficult. It's not that nobody has thought of the idea. It's that people have abhorrent views and there is no pressure from the public to change it, because too many people have views like the ones you've expressed where it's fiiiiine for a man to walk off and not pay his fair share. And CMS rates - even when paid - are nowhere near that.

Changechangychange · 21/01/2023 17:12

What do you think happens after a year, do two year olds look after themselves while you are at work? Mine never did, strangely, and still needs wraparound childcare aged 6.

Birdsbirdsbirds · 21/01/2023 17:14

NocturnalClocks · 21/01/2023 17:11

Even the US system is better than here, with more sensible contribution levels and properly enforced. It's not difficult. It's not that nobody has thought of the idea. It's that people have abhorrent views and there is no pressure from the public to change it, because too many people have views like the ones you've expressed where it's fiiiiine for a man to walk off and not pay his fair share. And CMS rates - even when paid - are nowhere near that.

Stop lying! I've said he's paying what he's been told to. Which he is.

Changechangychange · 21/01/2023 17:27

taxpayer1 · 20/01/2023 22:32

That is a blatant exaggeration to make a point. Most people receive 30 hours of free childcare, plus 80% of costs plus 20% of tax-free childcare.

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It’s not an exaggeration at all, we paid £2k a month when DS was under 2. This was an entirely normal, unflashy nursery in Camberwell, not an exclusive Kensington nursery full of millionaires’ kids.

Aged 2 it dropped to £1500 per month. Our nursery didn’t do the 30 free hours; most don’t around here as it doesn’t cover their costs.

Even if it had, that would have been 30 hours for 38 weeks of the year - we used 50 hours a week for 52 weeks of the year, so still would have paid a significant amount each month (back of an envelope calculation: around £900 per month).

Hagpie · 21/01/2023 17:30

With friends like you OP!

Birdsbirdsbirds · 21/01/2023 17:33

We don't actually know where ops friend lives though do we? A vast amount of the country does not pay £100 a day for FT nursery, and many of us are able to access free hours. We don't know what she earns either.

C8H10N4O2 · 21/01/2023 17:39

Birdsbirdsbirds · 21/01/2023 17:14

Stop lying! I've said he's paying what he's been told to. Which he is.

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Based on what? The OP doesn't mention CMS or any legal/court brokered agreement - just the sum paid every month.

What any of us think about the costs of raising a child that child is entitled to be raised commensurate with the parents' income. This man has abandoned his child and former partner, to pursue his own career and new lover unencumbered. Her income potential is taking a massive hit not just now but until the child is grown at least.

The OP's lack of experience with children is evident from their assumptions that its ok for a man to abandon his child in this way and that she should be grateful for whatever he cares to bestow.

Birdsbirdsbirds · 21/01/2023 17:42

C8H10N4O2 · 21/01/2023 17:39

Based on what? The OP doesn't mention CMS or any legal/court brokered agreement - just the sum paid every month.

What any of us think about the costs of raising a child that child is entitled to be raised commensurate with the parents' income. This man has abandoned his child and former partner, to pursue his own career and new lover unencumbered. Her income potential is taking a massive hit not just now but until the child is grown at least.

The OP's lack of experience with children is evident from their assumptions that its ok for a man to abandon his child in this way and that she should be grateful for whatever he cares to bestow.

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The assumption is it's CMS as it's obviously not a private agreement as he's fucked off and she's not happy. If it's not that, and he should be paying more then I stand corrected.

I don't think op has said that at all, I think you've assumed that.

NocturnalClocks · 21/01/2023 17:43

Stop lying! I've said he's paying what he's been told to. Which he is.

What?

NocturnalClocks · 21/01/2023 17:46

Most people receive 30 hours of free childcare, plus 80% of costs plus 20% of tax-free childcare

30 hours doesn't kick in until the term after a child turns 3. Not much help if you're left with a baby like the OP described. And it's actually 22 hours not 30 per week.

"Most people" do not get 80% of childcare costs paid, that's only for people on universal credit.

20% discount is also income dependent.

NocturnalClocks · 21/01/2023 17:47

Hagpie · 21/01/2023 17:30

With friends like you OP!

Exactly!!! 🤣

whistledowntheway · 21/01/2023 17:48

TheMatriarchy · 20/01/2023 21:55

Its all opportunity cost, your career is generally on the skids once you are left sole parent to a baby (doing all the drop offs, pick ups and sick days . It is galling to watch the childs father carry on as normal, while your life is unrecognised. And £1k is not even half the childcare if youre working fulltime.

This

Birdsbirdsbirds · 21/01/2023 17:49

NocturnalClocks · 21/01/2023 17:43

Stop lying! I've said he's paying what he's been told to. Which he is.

What?

I really can't help you if you're going to play dumb.

whistledowntheway · 21/01/2023 17:50

3WildOnes · 20/01/2023 22:03

You also sound like a shit friend. Her husband left her four months ago. Her whole world has come crashing down. She has been betrayed by two people and she now needs to face her new reality of bringing uo a child alone. All she needs right now is support and empathy.

This!!

C8H10N4O2 · 21/01/2023 17:55

Birdsbirdsbirds · 21/01/2023 17:42

The assumption is it's CMS as it's obviously not a private agreement as he's fucked off and she's not happy. If it's not that, and he should be paying more then I stand corrected.

I don't think op has said that at all, I think you've assumed that.

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Based on the actual content of the OP's posts - he has gone, they have seen neither him nor the new woman in months. As a single parent left holding the baby her job prospects will suffer in exactly the way I've described.

You OTOH, are making the assumptions that its a brokered or CMS agreement which is not mentioned in any of the OP's posts.

DidyouNO · 21/01/2023 17:55

I ended up with the house and £1800 a month. I have no mortgage and own the house outright. However. It's a lot less than the income was when 'we' were 'we' and not just me (he had numerous affairs) While it is very generous it barely covers my outgoings, but I love our home. And while I'd never discuss it with others and I am very very privileged it's a struggle financially. Until you've walked a mile in someone else's shoes etc.

Birdsbirdsbirds · 21/01/2023 17:57

C8H10N4O2 · 21/01/2023 17:55

Based on the actual content of the OP's posts - he has gone, they have seen neither him nor the new woman in months. As a single parent left holding the baby her job prospects will suffer in exactly the way I've described.

You OTOH, are making the assumptions that its a brokered or CMS agreement which is not mentioned in any of the OP's posts.

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I've not mentioned a single thing about her job prospects. Have you replied to the wrong post?

I've also said if it's not CMS and he's not paying enough then of course it's not okay. But I can't see it being voluntary if he's done a disappearing act.

As a woman, even with a fantastic husband, you still know you're giving your job prospects up to some degree. Because even if you're not the primary carer, people assume you are. Avoid hiring you. Think you're unreliable. Of course none of this is right but its true.
Yes as a single parent it's worse for her, but it's nothing to do with maintenance.

Mom2K · 21/01/2023 18:06

Am I missing something here? Why are her childcare costs expected to come out of what she receives in maintenance? I'm in Canada so maybe it's different here (or maybe it even varies case by case) but I receive child support every month and according to the legal agreement we have, he was also expected to pay his share of childcare costs proportionate to his income (in addition to child support) if I needed it to work. I had to pay a share of childcare too but significantly less than him since he is the higher earner. He was expected to pay 78% of childcare/extraordinary expenses.

If that's all she gets every month including childcare costs, that's terrible.

cheeseandwineissofine · 21/01/2023 18:07

She wants to think herself lucky! I have friends who exs pay £5 a month!

Birdsbirdsbirds · 21/01/2023 18:08

Mom2K · 21/01/2023 18:06

Am I missing something here? Why are her childcare costs expected to come out of what she receives in maintenance? I'm in Canada so maybe it's different here (or maybe it even varies case by case) but I receive child support every month and according to the legal agreement we have, he was also expected to pay his share of childcare costs proportionate to his income (in addition to child support) if I needed it to work. I had to pay a share of childcare too but significantly less than him since he is the higher earner. He was expected to pay 78% of childcare/extraordinary expenses.

If that's all she gets every month including childcare costs, that's terrible.

For the UK, it's a large amount. Most people do not receive 1k of maintenance a month. Because most people don't earn enough to pay that. Childcare is not considered in maintenance calculations in the UK.