Manosphere put me off men and sex (although I have healthy sex drive and desire a relationship)

[Lbbbbb]

I'm not asking for advice here, I just wondered if I'm the only one who feels this way, I suspect I'm not.

Men show interest in me romantically/sexually and although I don't have any ill feelings towards men (just some men's behaviour towards us) and don't wish to see them suffer, I'm terrified to ever date or have sex with a man again and feel many of them enjoy seeing women suffer. I have a healthy sex drive and the idea of a relationship is nice theoretically, but after discovering ex-husband was into manosphere and as a result became emotionally abusive, I've research all this stuff and combined with my past experiences with men, I am terrified to ever date or even have sex again.

The thought of co-habiting with a man, being financially tied (combined finances) to one and having a baby with a man, is absolutely out of the question for me now, the thought of it fills me with terror. I feel like I have some kind of ptsd or stress disorder from everything. I feel like it's all a trap and scares me, the ones that scare me most of all are the wolf in sheeps clothing, like my ex husband. I really don't trust my judgement anymore, I was supportive of him and his career, split finances 50/50, it was a very egalitarian relationship, I was affectionate, kind, so it's been hard to get my head around the way he treated me.

I've been following posts on MN a while now and after reading this today:
medium.com/@ossiana.tepfenhart/75-percent-of-tinder-users-are-now-men-why-are-guys-shocked-95c3cd11c97f
and also how some women are breaking up with boyfriends over Andrew Tate, just wanted to share my experience and if any other women out there feel the same and sick of the abuse, your not alone.

Do you think men realise it's abuse? Surely they must, I read one married redpill post once, where the man announced his wife as being diagnosed with cancer, so he's going to stop implementing redpill on her and other men replying saying, yeah understandable and in agreement, like wtf? I have to get cancer to no longer deserve being abused. I was having panic attacks and waking up with night sweats/terrors, nearly lost my marbles, from the games, gaslighting and abuse with my ex. It's all just so fucked up, I'm lucky I got myself settled and a nice little peaceful life for myself and just enjoy work, hobbies and seeing friends now, I talk to men at work and don't hold any grudge against them individually, but sometimes my hands tremble around men. I feel so sad for not only women, but despite everything, I still feel sad for men too, that it has come to this.

I don’t think you’re wrong to be cautious about the dangers of being legally or financially in someone else’s power.

But you’re living in a society, and legal framework where you can protect yourself. No one can compel you into marriage; you have the right to divorce without even stigma; you cannot be fired for being married or pregnant; you can make choices to protect your assets.

Your trauma from this relationship is very raw, and I hope you have some support for that. It will help your healing to focus on the things you do have control of.

Love many, trust few. Always paddle your own canoe

@Lbbbbb @Sleepytimebear , you and many others here clearly need much needed space and support for your traumatic original relationships which have understandably contaminated any subsequent ones.
Step away from relationships and especially the internet for a while and live happier lives that are simply about you and doing things that make your life more interesting for you and no one else. It's nothing short of masochistic delving into a very toxic male world thinking that knowing about it will somehow protect you from future trauma? It will ruin you and make you far weaker not stronger.
I'm reminded of the American medical drama series called 'House' starring Hugh Laurie as an unconventional doctor who whilst being a genius isn't exactly blessed with compassion. However, there were a few exceptions. Notably a vulnerable hypochondriac who regularly checks himself into the hospital and is finally granted a full body and brain scan, just to get rid of him and get him to see sense, but Dr House actually begs him not to go through with it saying that it will destroy him. He's healthy but every tiny ordinary shadow will become a mental cancer that will eat away at his sanity. Luckily the patient finally listens, walks away from the scan and all ends as well as it can.
I'm not saying anyone is like the patient here, but the advice is worth its weight in gold. Don't obsess, because it's causing you far more damage than you realise.

@Muddays I'm not obsessing and i havent delved into any world, I'm just commenting on a mumsnet post. I have zero interest in another relationship. My prior relationships (plural) have all been hard work and I just can't be bothered. I have a very busy, fulfilling life as it is. I'm happy! But I do get a lot of people saying I should date and frankly the dating pool is not appealing. It's not a hard decision to stay single!

"But you’re living in a society, and legal framework where you can protect yourself."

How does that work for all the women trapped in abusive or controlling relationships? What about all the victims of rape or sexual assault who can't even get the perpetrator charged, far less convicted? What about the roughly 2 women every week in the UK who are murdered but current or former partners? Where exactly is all this protection you think exists?

I was harassed at work by one of these. Not an easy accusation to bring against anyone, but harder with this reputation.

I have always been more suspicious of men who wore those ideals on their sleeve that way, but unfortunately I was alone in the office when he tried to corner me.

I really don't think there is an easy way to tell unless you have known them for ages, and my male relatives still shocked me. Though some might call it "locker room" talk. I just don't know what to think any more so the best solution is not to be mates with blokes.

Btw I've never seen Tinder or any online dating site

I also don't look at the "manosphere" but am aware of it - possibly knew of it earlier than I might have done otherwise, because a contact of mine did an academic study about it - which I don't plan to read!

my point being, even just a glancing knowledge, combined with life, makes me realise that male friends are probably not a good match for me.

I'm sorry this happened to you

WalkingThroughTreacle “Unfortunately, the harsh truth is that whilst indeed not all men are like that, far too many are and they often hide their true colours extremely well.”

so true. I’m thinking that posters who think they can tell a man is decent because he appears as a feminist, are being very naive. Women’s marches etc are a great place to…pick up women.

If I use myself as an example (I'm very far from perfect by the way in case it comes across that I think I am) I would say I agree with certain feminist viewpoints. I'm not a feminist though. The same as I agree passionately with a lot of views expressed by victims of racism or homophobia but I would never claim to be black or gay because I'm not, I just believe that everyone is entitled to be treated fairly, with respect and not subjected to hate. If a man actually described himself as a feminist, at the least it would give me a touch of cringe and at worst it would make me very suspicious of why he was trying so hard and what his game really was.

Reading back what I've just written, it implies that I think only women can be feminists. I need to think that through. On the one hand it feels like it might be unreasonable but at the same time it makes sense to me as well. I'm confusing myself now but then applying labels to people, especially ourselves, can do that. I'll stick with saying I'm just me, no labels. Someone who tries to be a decent human being and hopefully gets that right most of the time but is certainly not faultless and could do better.

@Lbbbbb

You don't have to give up on having children Op if that's what you want. Have you considered solo parenting? I had my son with a sperm donor, best decision ever. Of course, it took me some time to arrive at this decision, but once I de-coupled the idea of not needing to be in a relationship, it became clearer how to proceed.

The thing that gets me is there are some men out there who seem nice guys, married, kids, good jobs etc. Their wives, mums, sisters probably never hear them spout misogynistic shit.

But these same men, on their own and with other men, say things to each other about women and other races that those wives, mums and sisters would be shocked to hear. This is locker room talk or male banter. But they know fully well not to talk like this in front of women.

About a year ago someone posted on mumsnet about overhearing her Dh? Say to another guy something about “ a tuna sandwich looking like a woman’s gash” she was shocked and disappointed because she didn’t think he was that sort of man.

Theres been a few recent cases of policemen being disciplined for obscene and misogynistic what’s app messages, not forgetting other ones that have been racist. There were also the ones who had previously ‘bantered’ with Wayne Couzins, and others where photos were taken and foul messages sent re two murdered women.

I bet most of those policemen had wives and mums and sisters, who were shocked to find out what they’d said. These men know to hide this, that’s why you don’t see a red flag.

Theres a saying that some people, when they want to feel good about themselves, do it by making others feel bad. These men make themselves feel better by diminishing women.

Yes, I am jaundiced. As they say, Men. They’re not sending their best.

Im a man but I'll give you my opinion on the manosphere/andrew tate:

So im not his fan although he does say some things which are true and many men know this although even his biggest fans dont agree with everything he says. Like, he said that men are allowed to cheat but not women which 99.9 percent of men think is silly. I think many men like him just because he is what you call a "heel" aka the rulebreaker or bad guy and they like the fact that he triggers people

But I feel the manosphere and andrew tate are a result of 3rd wave feminism that are anti-family, hate men, that tell women its empowering to be a slut or do porn and push all the transgender crap.

Its true that men are not attracted to women with baggage or a high body count but yet women just go "blah blah blah" with thier fingers in thier ears and not listen.

I want a family and im not into hookups but Im thinking of going abroad for a wife because women in other parts of the world are more feminine and family orientated. Me personally im not attracted to career driven women because im career driven myself and I want to provide, I prefer women who want to become mothers.

But if you dont want to date men then maybe give women ago, womens sexuality is fluid and there are plenty of older women who are lonely.

Although I think everyone needs to come together and discuss things. Men and women both have thier own struggles AND thier own privilages.

@Ineedtosleep79 so if women are the prize then your saying that they are objects or trophies to be won?

Well there are always better prizes for a man to win. I like prizes that are not damaged and have not been used before lol.

Haven't read the comments as I thought they'd depress me.

You are spot on.

No reason for younto endure abuse, deceit and constant disappointment due to men's aggression, self-deception and will to power.

There are absolutely good men out there but there in an extreme minority and I applaud the perception and sanity of your post

Toomanysleepycats “These men know to hide this, that’s why you don’t see a red flag.”

exactly. Pp saying they are a good judge of character - not convinced. Most people can hide red flags when they choose to.

@Mezmer Exactly! Us men have our own struggles although so do women, I've heard women say things like "Kill all men" and some horrible shit about men and yet they dont get banned or taken down.

The manosphere/andrew tate is because of radical feminism, I dont agree with andrew tate and i think hes a prick although he does say some things which us men know that are true.

I think many men lik andrew tate just because he is considered a "bad guy" and that he just triggers people, I also think that he says some crazy stuff just for attention. Even his biggest fans dont agree with everything he says, He said that a man can cheat but not a woman in which I know for a fact that 99.9 percent of us men think is bollocks.

I think some men are so pissed off with radical feminism pushing crap like transgenderism, open borders, telling women that its wrong to have kids and that they should be a "slut" or do porn, shitting on men etc that this makes men side with andrew tate or find the manosphere.

Even incels, Most people think they only want sex but if thats the case then why dont they use a sex worker? Most incels hate themselfs rather than women and thats why they get surgeries done, focus alot on thier career, hit the gym etc because they want to find a woman that accepts them and finds them attractive. Some incels are straight up sexists who hate women but many incels are just lonely men who are very insecure and end up getting sucked into communities full of men that share the same struggle. I also think many incels are autistic

Oh ffs, and I'm all out of popcorn.

What the hell, I'll take you on. The fact that you actually have reasonable knowledge of what Tate's agenda is speaks volumes. Why do you even know what shite he spouts? Just like David Ike and Alex Jones it's clear as day he is barking mad and toxic with it. Why would you even waste time listening to his shite unless you were of a like mind?

Feminism telling women it's empowering to do porn and be sluts? I sincerely hope you are very drunk.

All men not attracted to women with baggage or a high body count? Speak for yourself. I met a woman once who had 5 children and I fell in love with her. Those children were not baggage. They were a fundamental part of her and as children they were the most important people in the scenario because they were the most dependent and vulnerable. When contemplating the future of our relationship I actually put a lot more thought into whether I could do right by them than whether I could do right by her. We're coming up for our thirtieth anniversary, my step-kids are all grown adults now and their children are my grandchildren by their own wishes. I've no idea what her "body-count" is and I couldn't care less.

Going abroad for a subservient wife? I think they call that trafficking.

As to your preference for a non-career driven, domesticated wife, I almost have no words. What happened to you as a child to so damage your self-esteem? Personally, I find confident, competent women very attractive as I want a partner in life, not a maid - I can cook and iron perfectly fine for myself thank you very much! I don't find strong women in the least bit threatening or intimidating and my ego is not so fragile that I feel the need to justify my existence by being the sole breadwinner or man of the house like some throwback to the 1950s.

If I have my own daughter then I want her to find a man that will keep her safe and I would be more protective of her because I know what some men are like although Id teach her to respect men just like id teach my son to respect women.

Cheers mate X

@WalkingThroughTreacle I can cook and clean as well lol, Im not looking a housewife but maybe its because your older with kids so you'd prefer a woman with kids. If I had kids then id date a woman with kids.

@WalkingThroughTreacle by the way im talking about 3rd wave feminism that is radical and hate men, I agree with gender equality and if a woman wants to chase a career or be a stay at home mother then thats her decision.

Do you not agree that women can be bad as well and that there are some things which women have more privilage than men?

Also, I find it funny that many of these feminists are pro-open borders and its mainly military aged men from islamic countries who are coming in. Do they want europe to turn into iran lol

@EmmaEmerald lol women have thier own locker room talk between each other and sexualize men as well

Well, these men tried to argue this sort of comment was “banter”. Obviously I can’t speak for all women, but in all my years, having worked mostly in female teams, I can honestly say I have never heard “banter” like this.

metro.co.uk/2022/11/02/met-police-officers-jailed-for-texts-in-whatsapp-group-with-wayne-couzens-17686774/amp/

I have been in a couple of workplaces where I’ve heard guys saying “don’t send that joke to any of the women” and even named me specifically, which in turn meant I thought it was probably racist as well.

what do you think your theoretical daughter needs to be protected from?

So what we've learned from today's troll is that he know about radical feminism from reading Andrew Tate and that he's been hiding in "women's locker rooms". Riiiiight....