Manosphere put me off men and sex (although I have healthy sex drive and desire a relationship)

[Lbbbbb]

I'm not asking for advice here, I just wondered if I'm the only one who feels this way, I suspect I'm not.

Men show interest in me romantically/sexually and although I don't have any ill feelings towards men (just some men's behaviour towards us) and don't wish to see them suffer, I'm terrified to ever date or have sex with a man again and feel many of them enjoy seeing women suffer. I have a healthy sex drive and the idea of a relationship is nice theoretically, but after discovering ex-husband was into manosphere and as a result became emotionally abusive, I've research all this stuff and combined with my past experiences with men, I am terrified to ever date or even have sex again.

The thought of co-habiting with a man, being financially tied (combined finances) to one and having a baby with a man, is absolutely out of the question for me now, the thought of it fills me with terror. I feel like I have some kind of ptsd or stress disorder from everything. I feel like it's all a trap and scares me, the ones that scare me most of all are the wolf in sheeps clothing, like my ex husband. I really don't trust my judgement anymore, I was supportive of him and his career, split finances 50/50, it was a very egalitarian relationship, I was affectionate, kind, so it's been hard to get my head around the way he treated me.

I've been following posts on MN a while now and after reading this today:
medium.com/@ossiana.tepfenhart/75-percent-of-tinder-users-are-now-men-why-are-guys-shocked-95c3cd11c97f
and also how some women are breaking up with boyfriends over Andrew Tate, just wanted to share my experience and if any other women out there feel the same and sick of the abuse, your not alone.

Do you think men realise it's abuse? Surely they must, I read one married redpill post once, where the man announced his wife as being diagnosed with cancer, so he's going to stop implementing redpill on her and other men replying saying, yeah understandable and in agreement, like wtf? I have to get cancer to no longer deserve being abused. I was having panic attacks and waking up with night sweats/terrors, nearly lost my marbles, from the games, gaslighting and abuse with my ex. It's all just so fucked up, I'm lucky I got myself settled and a nice little peaceful life for myself and just enjoy work, hobbies and seeing friends now, I talk to men at work and don't hold any grudge against them individually, but sometimes my hands tremble around men. I feel so sad for not only women, but despite everything, I still feel sad for men too, that it has come to this.

Why put pressure on yourself? Frankly, I can't be bothered any more. It just isn't worth the hassle. When I look at my family and friends, the happiest people are all single. The worst times of my life have involved relationships. Happiness, for me, comes from nature, books, friends, hobbies, yoga, dogs, meditation and exercise. In fact, I'm happier than ever before. Why would I let some guy destroy all that?

It seems to be increasingly common to be single, especially among the young. Record numbers of people now live alone. And I have read that young men are less interested in sex, and having less sex, than ever before (almost certainly because of internet porn). But a lot of young women I know seem less interested as well. Probably that's because of two things– it is more socially acceptable to be a single woman, and women now have more career opportunities. Off the top of my head, I can think of two women in their 20s who are single. Both have said they never want to marry or have kids, and both are fiercely ambitious/focused on their careers.

There are some wonderful men out there. And a good relationship is amazing. But it's frustrating to see women (and men) settle for narcissists, control freaks, bullies, selfish assholes, etc, just because they don't want to be alone. Even worse are people who'd rather put up with an awful relationship than endure the 'shame' of being single.

Aside from the violent language, which I give you is a big thing, this is what women do to men too. There is endless stuff on the internet wined at women about manipulating men, blaming them for all the bad with toxic masculinity, dressing up and seducing them and generally presenting in a way that will make them ‘irresistible’ so they can be manipulated. And yes there are sites for gold diggers and women who chase the wallet not the man. Then there’s ‘LTB’ at every slight and ‘every man’s a rapist’ type narrative.

no, sorry I think men have it bad too.

think of song lyrics from the likes of little mix for instance. They are all about presiding over men and demeaning them through demonstrating sexual dominance. ‘Secret potion’ if a man sang that song it’d be seen as rape-y. I get it that there are plenty of rappers who say awful things about ‘bitches’ and stuff but they don’t tend to have mothers and daughters alike singing their heads off in the car together. It must piss men off loads.

its terrible that men think there is a big conspiracy going on, but with ‘the patriarchy’ etc the same goes in the feminist threads.

All I want to end is actual physical violence towards women as that is the thing we cannot defend ourselves against.

the threat of physical violence towards women is the only thing in my opinion that makes mansophere etc different from what women are doing to men.

however it’s a bloody massive thing admittedly.

These men are just stupid, who cares what they think?! Women are the prize. There's a reason that the majority of murderers/paedophiles/rapists are men. How deluded do you have to be to believe that women are the route of all evil?? 😂 Fuck them. Don't even give them a 2nd thought.

I ask men straight up when I'm dating them. "What do you think of Andrew Tate". I drop in casual lines like "well the feminist in me thinks...xyz". Talk to them and listen to their answers. Don't be scared to drop someone if you get a red flag.

What are the "right"groups?

i don't think there's a way to spot these people. Equally, I have some views I don't share. How well can you ever know another person, really?

Tate selling self empowerment is extremely smart. It makes him money. His followers are however extremely stupid not to realise that they are the source of his riches as he trades on their inadequacies.

His alleged pimping is just to sell women to these losers. What kind of lives do you really think men who think he's good will have.

He's exploiting them, doubtless he's a horror to women but I doubt he really likes anyone.

When confronted with what he has said he refuses really to own his misogyny. There is a bit of Andrew Tate that wants to be liked, or respected by mainstream society. Once he works out how to monetize that, you might be surprised.

Obviously as a Mumsnet user I am not representative of men in general, but I have a very wide circle of male friends and acquaintances, socially and at work, across most social groups and classes, and I'm pretty sure I don't know a single one who agrees with what Andrew Tate says, that's assuming they have heard of him in the first place. Letting Tate put you off all men is self sabotaging IMO

@JoonT To be honest I am for the most part content single and fear a man would destroy my peace, I'm same I was most unhappy in relationships, the longer I live alone, the less I feel I could be bothered with a relationship.
I get sick of comments from others and pressure to be in a relationship, I live in an old mining town, and some people here still have prehistoric views on relationships. It's quite relentless, from family and friends, some of them just can't wrap their head around why I chose to be single, doesn't matter how many times I say, everytime I see certain people, they ask if I've met anyone and say I should have been snapped up by now, I feel like saying to them before they even open their mouths, have you separated yet? I've you not got bored of each other yet? 😂

It's funny, my ex husband chose porn over me and the irony is, a lot of the manosphere seems to give tips on how to attract and sleep with women. Although in the end I felt like I was a trophy for him to impress other men, he seemed more obsessed with other men's attraction to me. Even said when I left him and came to talk me round 'My dad and brother think your very attractive', like it slipped out and he was meant to say he thought I was, almost like they'd told him what to say, but accidentality said it from their perspective and he didn't find me attractive at all, he just liked that other men did, it was really quite bizarre! He had watched a lot of porn from a young age and confessed to wanting me to sleep with other men.

Men are just nuts 😂 Your family and friends need to butt out. My family are the same, I had an auntie who was telling me to get back with my ex-fiancé who only knows the surface of the situation (I find the older generation tend to be ruder about these matters). It really annoyed me to be honest.

Sounds like if you did pursue a relationship OP you would need to set some boundaries. I think a lot of women have good situations by keeping their homes solo but invite boyfriends round.

There is something about the domestic sharing which brings out really negative things for women. Your home is your sanctuary

I think there's a lack of understanding about these types of men sometimes. I was with my abusive ex 10 years. There were some red flags early on, basically that he didn't value me, but the first time I remember him showing any misogynist views at all we were 5 years in and owned a house together. Over the next 5 years he just turned into an overt woman hater although he would always say the right things if you called him out. I met him through a mutual friend. He seemed like a nice guy, everyone thought s

I don't think I'll ever have a relationship again. My therapist said relationships could be really fulfilling and positive but that just isn't my experience so there's no real benefit to me. I am happy on my own. I have no interest on filtering out all these incels and abusers and go on awful online dates to find the occasional good man. It's just not a priority.

@LexMitior It's funny, I actually thought in my head recently, marriage and cohabitation is such a cruel thing to do to someone you supposedly love.

I consider my most successful relationship and only truly happy one(happy till the end and consistently), was a long distance relationship with man who lived a 4 hour drive away and came to see me every weekend for 2 and half years, more passion, no resentment, just ended because I don't drive and he couldn't afford to keep driving, I suspect he had another woman at home in the week in hindsight though. 😂

@Lbbbbb - yes me too actually. I got divorced and then found men were much easier to like if I didn't aim to share a house with them. Like you I had some good times with men in this way.

I think however a lot of men want someone to live with. I no longer want that myself.

@Sleepytimebear I feel the same, I have got better at spotting red flags, by educating myself, but the vetting and filtering that's required exhausts me just thinking about it. I'm also very softly natured and generous and some people perceive that as weakness and try to take advantage, all my past exes where shocked when I walked away, I give people the benefit of the doubt too much and I think when you live with someone, it's very easy for manipulative people to lure you into a fog of confusion. I think just living with a man takes it's toll on me mentally and emotionally, even if they are a good person and then that mental and emotional strain straight away puts me in a vulnerable position. Even sleeping with someone else takes it's toll on me, if they move about in bed and staying up really late and keeping me awake, I think I just need my own space anyway, regardless of whether the other person has good intentions or not.

I'm good at reading people

Okay. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I'd never heard of Andrew Tate until he started appearing in the news recently. Took me about two minutes to recognise that he's a scumbag and anyone that sees him as inspirational or a role model are sad, pathetic, inadequate men. Unfortunately, they can be sad, pathetic etc but still be extremely dangerous. I have nothing whatsoever in common with them (oh, I'm a man BTW) and I don't believe any of my close male friends do either. I'm am not naïve though. The statistics relating to male violence and abuse of women are beyond shocking and I've certainly met a fair few men in my time whose attitude towards women very quickly made me decide to have nothing to do with them. We have deeply ingrained societal issues where too many men are indoctrinated from a young age with very toxic views about women - that women are objects or commodities, that sexual "success" with women directly relates to a man's worth or status, that men have some sort of entitlement to women. Someone challenged the existence of "the patriarchy" upthread as a sort of feminist invention. Well maybe there isn't an actual organisation in that sense but nobody can deny that we still live in very much a patriarchal society. I'd like to think it's slowly getting better but I'm far from convinced that it is.

Sorry, I'm rambling on. I would love to say to the OP and others who feel the way she does that she's being extreme or paranoid and that not all men are like that. Unfortunately, the harsh truth is that whilst indeed not all men are like that, far too many are and they often hide their true colours extremely well. Truth is, I don't know many women personally who haven't fallen prey to a misogynistically abusive man at some point in their life. Do what you think you need to do to be happy OP. You don't need a man or a relationship to be happy in life. A good relationship can obviously enhance our lives but it's not some mandatory requirement without which we are somehow unfulfilled. If your decision is that you prefer not to expose yourself to any such risk at all I'm struggling to think of a credible argument to convince you otherwise.

People look at places in the Middle East and other parts of the world that are highly religious and treat women like cattle, and think that we are so different.....but I can easily see how some of these men would fit in fairly easily into aspects of Isis or the Taliban. Power, glory and the ultimate sexual dominance & violence against women appeals to them.

It's scary and is why we need strong feminism in the world.

I really don't trust my judgement anymore

Your trust in yourself will take a while to build back up. I think you just need to take this as a lesson learnt, sadly.

If you don't think it will traumatise you further, I think women could really benefit from hearing more details about the story of your relationship. Either here, or some kind of online article.

I'm also very softly natured and generous

And you deserve someone who will honour and respect that in you OP. It should be rewarded, not taken advantage of, or seen as a sign of weakness.

You give me hope 😥

Unfortunately, a lot of these men, probably most of them, are clever enough to know not to mention him in a good light in front of women, knowing it'll cost them. They would have to be incredibly dim to go 'Oh yeah, Tate's the best isn't he!!?'.

The right groups are ones where men are overtly supportive of feminist ideals and clearly do not feel threatened by women being equal.

You know, the kind of men people slag off for being 'woke'.

Of course you can spot a great many of these people. Not all of them, but plenty of them.

@Mezmer

no, sorry I think men have it bad too

Oh here we go.

There's always a few isn't there? You get a thread pointing out blatant misogyny, the ugliest of it, and there's always a self-pitying, tone-deaf ploker who goes -

'BUT WHAT ABOUT THE MENZ?'

Because there clearly aren't enough corners of the internet full of men saying this exact thing. 🙄Jesus, read the room and have some self-awareness.

Three months single and couldn’t be happier I certainly won’t in a relationship again I’ve had enough. My home is staying my sanctuary.

I think you just have to be a bit cleverer than looking at what a man (or anyone) claims to support or not.

Look at what he does. There is the answer. Men who talk nice but treat people badly are numerous