Fair for him to oppose paying for dc in this context? (Please be kind)

[biwncs]

before I start I want to say I’ve NC as I am embarrassed by this and I know I do NOT smell of roses here. Please don’t post if it’s just to sling mud at me, i know I haven’t been perfect by a long way.

when I was 37 I panicked about wanting dc and my partner at the time was 40. He had pushed it back a year already but in fairness to him we hadn’t been together long, only two years. He would often make comments about wanting dc and where we would take them, what schools theyd go to etc. I came off the pill and didn’t say and although we also used condoms (we always have, we prefer it), I became pregnant. He was conflicted at the start but after a couple of weeks said it was up to me and he would support me either way. I asked if he wanted a termination a few times and he said no. So we carried on. Half way through the pregnancy I felt I had to tell him I had come off the pill. It was a horrible conversation understandably but we moved past it. A year or so later we broke up, since then my ex has refused to pay a penny and hasn’t spent any time with dc. He has no other kids and as far as I know not with anyone else. He tells me he shouldn’t have to pay as I made him have a dc. I now feel so conflicted about maintenance? I feel he was giving me all the signs he wanted us to have dc and I did openly discuss termination and he said no. But ultimately he’s right I came off the pill and didn’t say. I am so confused/sad as to what to do and what’s right. He doesn’t seem interested in dc either and i feel that’s on me, though I never ever had him down as someone who would abandon his child. I just don’t know what to do and feel he has a point regarding finance.

This one is interesting!

I think my view might be controversial, but I think you're very near blameless in this mess. Not because of the discussion of when to have children, but simply because you don't owe him to fill your body with artificial hormones. You probably should have informed him of your choice, yes, but the result would've been the same. And condoms are relevant protection - so you did protect yourself. You also offered to terminate, which he refused. Accidents happen with all types of protection, and he is clearly trying to dodge his responsibility. So if you want to pursue child maintenance, you definitely should. Also for the sake of the child, who is definitely without blame here, a shouldn't have to go without because his/her father doesn't want to shoulder his responsibility

No. Only one of them has to deal with pregnancy/abortion. It’s not ‘exactly the same’ and it never has been, and it never will be.

Different, but not worse considering he confessed the next morning and she had the chance to take a morning after pill.

Its still coercing someone into having sex through lying about contraception, and personally I don’t see that making someone have to take a morning after pill once is anywhere near as bad as making someone pay out money they may struggle to afford for 18 years.

We don’t have to call this rape but there is clearly some kind of assault here. He may not wish to pursue this, given she has ended up being the mother to his child but if I was her, I’d realise the gravity of my decision and stop with the ‘woe is me’ routine. This isn’t just about him having a child earlier than he intended, it’s serious stuff.

No, it isn’t: lying to a woman about being infertile then impacts her body. That’s why it’s different: it’s not simply because she didn’t want a kid, it’s because her body is the one who deals with the fallout from that.

It’s not assault either. He knew there was a risk of pregnancy.

you don't owe him to fill your body with artificial hormones

That's a totally different stance to saying you have done that and lying about it as well you know. He didn't make her take the pill. She said she was taking it and very likely had taken it for many years of her life not at any man's behest but by her own choice. And the idea that she offered to have a termination is utterly ludicrous as you surely must know. She went to some lengths to get pregnant without his consent, she was hardly going to abort at his say so.

Honestly, some of these responses. 'Blameless' indeed! Even the OP isn't that deluded.

So op got pregnant on purpose with someone she thought was on board with a pregnancy. Yes she lied but he did too. It ended because both parties lied. Pretty much as expected. There is now a child to be considered who should not be punished for the idiocy of both parents. Apologise for your part op, try to get him to be a dad and Claim cm, it’s not for you. It’s a shit show but not of the child’s making.

It's not lying to talk about having kids one day. It can be anything from an idle fantasy to testing the water with no commitment. Couples do that all the time and it doesn't mean they actively agree to having a kid together. If she believed him, she could easily have been above board about it. The fact that she wasn't shows that she didn't really think he was all-in.

I’m sorry but that’s bull. If a woman is assaulted, she has the option of terminating and that is a terrible, terrible thing which deserves punishment. In this scenario, he cannot terminate, because it’s not his body but in a way, that is worse because an unwanted baby has been brought into the world and he will forever have a moral obligation to support a child he didn’t want. Her offering a termination is rubbish. Of course she wouldn’t have gone through with it. She has completely trapped him.

I know the world and MN in particular is all for women’s rights but I’d hate to be a man. There is an opportunity for unscrupulous women to hold all the cards and completely ruin someone’s life.

It’s funny how we can look at consent in many different ways when it’s for a woman, but for a man, unless he’s physically raped, it appears there’s no wrongdoing. Sometimes I’m ashamed to call myself a woman and be associated with those who couldn’t give a toss about men.

I said this. Apparently calling out sexual abuse isn’t ok here.

Police action should be taken in these cases as much as any other sexual assault. It’s just a shame the child will suffer.

So why didn't you tell him you were going to stop taking the pill then?

I think deep down you knew he didn't actually want a baby and was all talk and that's how you justified it to yourself.

That being said, you can't undo what happened. Is he in the position where he can pay the minimum in CM set out by the CMS? If not, why would you even think he was ever going to be able to contribute, together or not?

I find it sad that despite the circumstances of which his child came about, he doesn't want to know about them or contribute in any way (I'd rather he knew the child and had a relationship with them than pay for them out of legal force, to be honest). Maybe work on that rather than using him as a cash cow.

It’s very, very basic biology. The woman decides because it’s her body.

How would you do it differently?

Legally he has to pay. Like you say your behaviour was out of order, but it doesn’t change the fact that legally he’s responsible for paying it. I’d persue it if you need that money to provide a good standard of life for your child. If you’re managing fine then I’d probably choose not to push it given the circumstances

As I’ve pointed out, post deleted, there is a crime around tricking someone into sex without by being deceptive like this

can’t say what it’s called though.

it’s not kind.

I don’t think anyone on the thread is saying that what the OP did wasn’t terrible are they?

there are just two further points being made:

• he’s the childs father and regardless of the morals of her conception he has an independent relationship and obligation to his child and should at the very least pay child maintenance. I think he is also awful for not having a relationship with the child (which he did for the first year!)

• secobdly, the reality is that the issues of consent and the impact of child bearing are different between men and women because biology. It’s ludicrous to suggest otherwise. This does not mean that the op should not be culpable for the deception - but it is unhelpful and meaningless to compare it to rape - it’s different and deserves it’s own separate analysis.

@Fairydustandsparklylights very harsh. The father could avoid all of that if he stepped up to his responsibilities. Planned or not, he has responsibilities IT IS HIS CHILD. The OP is not forcing him to be an absent father HE is CHOOSING to be an absent father - THAT PART IS ON HIM.

A man should also be able to decide if he consents based on what he is told. If someone lies, he may not have given consent. No different from the links I’ve shared. To suggest there is no legal wrongdoing is doing a disservice to all those men who will be trapped by disgusting women like this. This could be our own son, brother, uncle.

Take away her little story about her assuming he wanted kids (clearly not that true or she could have told him her plan) but essentially, this is all about consent and that consent may not have been given if he didn’t think there was two lots of contraception in play.

The OP still hasn’t explained how she thinks the condom failed, but I wouldn’t be surprised if she hadn’t had a hand in this too. Young men should be absolutely terrified of meeting a woman if they read this.

@Bobsyouruncleand can you see how it’s not helpful to compare it to consent for women - it’s a different power dynamic and different issues?

which is not to say that the OP is not culpable

So he shouldn’t have sex unless there’s a 100% guarantee he can’t get anyone pregnant?

Also @Bobsyouruncleand its been explained to you many, many times why it’s different.

@Bobsyouruncleand and part of that analysis needs to take into account that whenever there is sex a baby is always a possibility (age issues etc notwithstanding). It’s a complex issues and the factors are different

If I were in your position and I could afford to support the child I wouldn’t claim maintenance as I’d feel it wasn’t his responsibility, though you are legally entitled to do so. If the child actually needs the money then you should claim it as he/she shouldn’t suffer because of your bad decisions.

Well, maybe he won't try and future fake the next women he dates that's in her late 30s as a result.

(shrug)

You behaved badly. You know that.

He is now behaving badly. He is legally required to pay.