Fair for him to oppose paying for dc in this context? (Please be kind)

[biwncs]

before I start I want to say I’ve NC as I am embarrassed by this and I know I do NOT smell of roses here. Please don’t post if it’s just to sling mud at me, i know I haven’t been perfect by a long way.

when I was 37 I panicked about wanting dc and my partner at the time was 40. He had pushed it back a year already but in fairness to him we hadn’t been together long, only two years. He would often make comments about wanting dc and where we would take them, what schools theyd go to etc. I came off the pill and didn’t say and although we also used condoms (we always have, we prefer it), I became pregnant. He was conflicted at the start but after a couple of weeks said it was up to me and he would support me either way. I asked if he wanted a termination a few times and he said no. So we carried on. Half way through the pregnancy I felt I had to tell him I had come off the pill. It was a horrible conversation understandably but we moved past it. A year or so later we broke up, since then my ex has refused to pay a penny and hasn’t spent any time with dc. He has no other kids and as far as I know not with anyone else. He tells me he shouldn’t have to pay as I made him have a dc. I now feel so conflicted about maintenance? I feel he was giving me all the signs he wanted us to have dc and I did openly discuss termination and he said no. But ultimately he’s right I came off the pill and didn’t say. I am so confused/sad as to what to do and what’s right. He doesn’t seem interested in dc either and i feel that’s on me, though I never ever had him down as someone who would abandon his child. I just don’t know what to do and feel he has a point regarding finance.

I don’t think this post is real.

However this has been side tracked by arguing the legalities of something that didn’t happen - removing a condom/ stealthing. In this hypothetical scenario OP stopped taking the pill, did not inform DP but continued to have a sex with a mode of protection. This would not constitute as a form of stealthing.

Aside from that, in this hypothetical case the ex has a legal obligation to pay for his child. I would also suggest he has a moral obligation to pay too - he stayed with OP a year after she ‘revealed’ the truth and was in the baby’s life for at least 6 months - so he made an active choice to accept the situation and child until the relationship broke down and then decided to bring this narrative up to avoid paying.

The OPs made up scenario is of course immoral but ultimately a child was still brought into existence and should be put before any claim of injustice on the father’s part.

@LOLsloth
I'm just going by the scenario the OP posted, but yeah if she stopped her contraception and then tampered with the condoms then that's different.

It's possible he wasn't that careful with the condom if he believed that she was also on the pill so in that case there would be a pretty high chance of pregnancy which could explain why she got pregnant so soon.

Imagine if this was your son. He had listened to your advice all these years of doubling up. He wanted children but not yet - his choice. Then he finds out he is to be a father because of contraception not being taken. I would be devastated for him and I would call you a devious cow OP as you knew exactly what you were doing. Now this man has to pay CM for at least 18 years. If you were a nice honest person you would have used a sperm donation and funded it all yourself. Wicked to the father and the child.

Even if the new partner decided that he wanted the same level of responsibility that you would like him to, it is very possible that if she did this to the new partner they still break up.

This is a major breach of trust, I don't see how a relationship would survive it.

@IneedanewTV
If my 40/41 year old son abandoned his baby after 6 months or so then I'd be ashamed of him, even if the baby was conceived in this way.
He was in the childs life for months.

Yes you most definitely should have told him you wanted to come off the pill.

But think about it like this.

Lets say, you'd of had that conversation. The pill is not agreeing with you, it isn't for everyone and you want to stop taking it.

Would he have ended the relationship, because you don't want to take the pill anymore? Or carried on having sex with you, using condoms?

End of the day, you did use contraception, it just wasn't the pill.

He still needs to pay for his child. The child he said he wanted to keep when you asked him and didn't want to terminate.

So he has made 2 very crucial decisions there OP. One was to have sex with you, using a condom and two was to keep the baby.

You didn't trick him into getting pregnant. Maybe you hoped you would get pregnant, but you still took precautions.

Legally he has to pay.
Morally, he should pay but i get his point.
It's a harsh bloody lesson for both of you. Women who do this give the rest of us a bad name. Way to go.

went too soon: i have a certain amount of sympathy for him in this case. Yeah, if he wanted to be really sure he should have warned a condom. But they were in a committed loving relationship and she said she was on the pill. So fuck that.
If you had admitted it right at the start, he may have persuaded you to have an abortion? Maybe not.

I am always of the: he must fulfill his legal obligations. And moral ones. But in this case where the OP acted imorally? He has no moral obligations towards her. Only the child. That he didn't want. Poor kid.

@Brefugee but he did wear a condom.

Yeah, if he wanted to be really sure he should have warned a condom

He did wear a condom, that’s the whole point! He was clear about not wanting children despite what OP is trying to convince herself of.

So he has made 2 very crucial decisions there OP. One was to have sex with you, using a condom and two was to keep the baby.

Keeping the baby wasn’t his decision!

Biwncs, why won’t you respond to any of the people who asked you if you tampered with the condom? Why are you ignoring those questions?

yeah, i missed that part.
So OP just to add more to the pasting you are getting: you fucked him over royally.
I hope you are really really ashamed of yourself. If your DC is a son how will you feel if some shitty woman does this to him? Proud of yourself?

So again, because i know some posters think women are always right and PIV sex by a man means he must be on the hook for everything evermore:

• Yes women have bodily autonomy and the abortion decision is down to her and he must live with it
• using (as he thought) 2 forms of contraception are not any indication a man wants a child. Quite the opposite.
• Lying to someone about the big things is never good.
• "coming clean" about your lies has consequences. OP isn't the one that is paying for that though, the DC is
• Yes the father of the child should be paying the legally required amount. Normally i'd say he should pay more, but in this case? I would find it hard to accept any argument for OP that he should contribute more

(aside to OP: why the fuck did you admit it later? did you want to piss him off?)

The whole thing is a mess. And again: it really doesn't help women who genuinely have accidents while using one or more forms of contraception

It’s quite amazing OP that you came off the pill, and fell pregnant immediately? Whilst using a condom. Did you tamper with the condom?

I wouldn't worry too much.
The chances of the rare man who insists on doubling up on contraception (because, yeah, they all follow mums advice and insist on that, don't they?) meeting an even rarer woman desperate to procreate, and only his genes will do, are vanishingly rare in the first place.
For that same man to have the misfortune not to apply his condom properly, so it fails without him realising, are rarer still.
if it hadn't been posted here, I'd venture to suggest he would be more likely to be struck by lightening for the third time, while collecting his winning lottery ticket.
(Men telling their mums that's what happened to justify shirking their responsibility, probably not so rare.)

Personally I think this thread is a reverse posted by a man who is trying to justify why he doesn’t pay child support. Or his new girlfriend who is constructing a story to explain why he’s not a bad person to turn his back on his own child.

Sadly the UK is full of men who believe that someone else ( their ex wife, the tax payer ) should support their child/ren once they decide they CBA anymore. It’s shocking. I know someone who earns £140,000 a year who had just changed his job to “ self employed “ to avoid paying maintenance for his three children. His ex works at two jobs to meet a roof over her kids head.

it took us until about page 13 for the real point to be raised here: informed consent

we spend hours, i hope, drumming this into our daughters and sons. Really hammering the point home. This pregnancy, condom failure aside, is the result of sex without informed consent by the man. (boot on the other foot is tempting to say "tough tits, mate, you know how many women a year this affects?")

So only the legal questions need to be answered really. Legally? He must pay. He can opt to pay more than the CSA minimum, my guess is he won't and that to get even that the OP is going to have to go to CSA and get the ball rolling. The sooner the better.

Moral questions? if you have fully informed PIV sex then you must accept that one consequence is a child. the man in this scenario didn't want an abortion either (but if it were the other way round and OP wanted an abortion, he would have no say, which is as it should be. It is a consequence of being the man in this universe). So once OP was pregnant, barring mishaps, the end result is a child.
Man must pay.

Regarding involvement in the child's life? A quick glance at the step-parenting board will show you that you can't force him to have any physical role in the child's life except to stump up the cash. In this scenario i am wondering if he really did want a child at some unspecified point, but the reality of the situation that he couldn't control panicked him. Plenty of men who theoretically want kids when they're ready have a panic when confronted with an actual pregnancy. And many many of them step up and are great fathers. Some develop into great fathers. Some - not so much.

It's like when one partner admits to an affair. There are many reactions. But one of them, a quite common one, is to give it a go then end the relationship. That may be what happened here. He tried, but couldn't face living with the lie on a daily basis. He may eventually come round and step up and want contact etc. But legally? I don't think OP can force that. Morally? Well of course for the sake of the child he should. But on the other hand, morally he shouldn't be faced with this situation and he's only human.

There are many reasons why a parent might opt not to apply for maintenance. It's your legal right to do so but legal doesn't mean have to.

I chose not to apply to the then CSA when my OH decided to stop paying anything. For the reason that I knew if I did, it would put him in an even worse financial position that would lead to him bring even more stressed and resentful and his attitude would have a very negative impact on our children. I wanted the best for them and decided that money was less important than their mental health and could manage without.

It's up to you to decide. No one else can do so for you. Everyone would do something different. Do what you think is the right thing, end of.

@vivainsomnia good job you were so considerate and you both didn't share that view about the raising of your joint children. Funny how it's always a mother that Carry's on regardless.....

She’s been asked this multiple times but refuses to give an answer, so at this point I’m concluding that, yes, she did tamper with the condom.

Funny how it's always a mother that Carry's on regardless.....
But they are consequences for all the choices we make. At the time, kids were oblivious and there were even hurtful time when they went on about 'poor daddy' which made me want to scream, but they became adults, and gained the ability to assess things for themselves. They know what I did and he didn't and respect us accordingly. He moans that they don't see him often it at all. You collect what you sow.

From the various threads that have cropped up any man that wanted to use a condom when his partner says that they are on the pill would be kicked to the kerb because it shows that he doesn't trust his partner fully.

From the various threads that have cropped up any man that wanted to use a condom when his partner says that they are on the pill would be kicked to the kerb because it shows that he doesn't trust his partner fully.

Yep. It's a lose-lose for everyone

I've never seen such a thread. And neither have you.

Go to know that you have read and kept track of every thread on MN.
But you do you.