your perspective on argument with dh please

[Franklyfrost]

My partner has not been talking to me for nearly a week now. I'd like advice on what to do when the talking does start. We'd been having some difficulties and went to couple's therapy. I've been really trying to see the good things he does, be affectionate and adapt to his preferences. We've not been fighting since maybe October, whereas perviously we were constantly fighting which I found very stressful.

The thing that triggered the not talking was that he did something I'd asked him not to do... this is going to be stupidly long and a bit boring my apologies.

We have a loft space which you can crawl into. I have asked my partner on four or five occasions not to open the door to the loft and dump stuff in there. Instead I'd like him to leave the stuff outside the door where there is plenty of space and its in no ones way in a room he never goes into. I can then put it in right place the loft. His point of view is that it's not a big deal and I need to chill out. Which sounds fair enough BUT

1. because the loft is long and narrow so I can't access the loft when he dumps stuff in the crawl space. I go in there once or twice a week to fetch or return something.
2. he never goes in the loft, I have it all organised and labelled and am really keen to keep the space under control (the stuff in the loft is camping stuff, kids clothes and shoes, seasonal clothing and paperwork relating to the house: it's not MY stuff that I'm organising although I have bought it all as he doesn't contribute to these things)
3. the loft at our old house was a dumping ground, really stressful to find anything, my partner never went in there and when we moved house I did all the packing and moving, including the loft, which was full floor to ceiling full of miscellaneous chaos and never again will I have a loft of doom.

I feel like, given that I do all the maintenance and purchasing of the loft stuff, as well as having paid to have the have the loft turned into a storage space, he can help out by leaving things outside the door rather than opening the door and flinging them in. I've explained my fear of the loft becoming disorganised (it is a long tunnel type space) and asked him 4-5 times to not fling things in. He did it again 6 days ago and won't talk about it, I asked what the problem was with my request and if we could solve it together, he replied that the solution was for me to chill out. He always sees me as the problem and seems to have no concept of being in the wrong or compromise and he is very sensitive to feeling controlled or complained about. I told him I didn't want to be in a relationship with him (although in practice I can't really leave). He's not spoken to me for 6 days, ignores me when I speak to him, will answer a direct question (rudely) if I repeat it several times. He did break his silence to shout at me in front of my parents over Christmas which was humiliating. He also threw some things around on Christmas day in front of the kids which was scary. At some point we'll have to talk. Was I asking too much? Is he in the right? I feel like his behaviour is wrong, especially over Christmas but maybe I deserve it for some unspecified reason. I really don't know what to do or say when he is ready to talk. Any advice? I feel numb, I feel like I want to make up and say it's all okay but I don't want to forgive him and he won't ever try to make amends as he things I'm in the wrong. Help me! No ltb thanks, it is not going to happen. The question is how to navigate or survive the bastard.

Why would you need to leave @Franklyfrost ?@Franklyfrost ? Why couldn't he leave? Is it his house?

I think your DC would probably breathe a big sigh of relief (after the initial shock) if he was out of the picture.

Regardless of why, it's a huge issue that your dp has been giving you the silent treatment- and for a week!!!!

This is not a mature way to conduct a relationship.

Quite.

If it's not fiction, you are failing your children enormously.

You can choose to stay if you're prepared to be treated like shit but your children are stuck in this shit show.

The issue isn’t the loft space, the loft space is the kind of thing that me and DH would probably bicker over, make up immediately and forget…if anything you were maybe being a little protective of the loft but I can understand why, it annoys me as well when people are messy. arguing over stuff like this is normal. What is worrying is the throwing things around, silent treatment for 6 days and shouting at you in front of parents…not acceptable at all!

OP please don't keep minimising your DH's abuse because you can't face the upheaval of splitting up.

What @monsteramunch reposted is appalling.
You are neglecting your primary duty of care -- to your children.
Please make 2023 the year you do the right thing by them. Or, better still, 2022!

Yes, it will be the most difficult thing you've ever done, undoubtedly. But you must find a way to do it.

What were you constantly fighting about before October? I think there's a lot more to this story than this weird minor loft issue. I don't know why he won't
just leave the stuff in the room underneath - but how much stuff is there and how often is it? If you only keep stuff you use very occasionally up there why does he keep putting things up there? And what is he putting up there that blocks the space? If everything has to go through the narrow space anyway why don't you just push it on through ahead of you when you go up there?

I can't tell if this is just a control issue that you're both choosing to butt heads on because you don't really like each other. You both want it done a certain way and have made it into a big deal even though it really doesn't matter, but you both just look for ways to pick at each other and be the one who's right.

Or maybe he's an arse. The silent treatment is passive aggressive childishness.

You say that SEN is a reason you don't want to leave - do you have a child or children that are ND? Maybe the reason he doesn't seem to be able to understand your point of view or put himself in your shoes/do things your way and has such poor communication skills is because he has ASD, if your children are ND then it will have come from somewhere. Not an excuse for all this behaviour but might help explain it.

@Choconut

He's physically assaulted one child on multiple occasions, also dragging, shoving and pushing the other one multiple times. He has screamed and shouted at them all. He refuses to apologise and admits he feels entitled to do all this as they are children.

I appreciate that's all on OP's other thread so people may not have seen it so I'm just sharing this as it paints a very different picture to what OP is portraying and means her children are in danger emotionally and physically.

These poor kids are living in an abusive household, whether their dad is ND or not.

He's not just an arse. He abuses their children, as per her post over a year ago depressingly.

Yesterday morning dp grabbed ds 11, lifted him and in doing so banged his head against a piece of furniture. Ds 11 had accidentally hurt ds 5 while playing with him- enough to make ds 5 cry for a few seconds but nothing serious. Ds 11 freaked out- he wasn’t badly hurt at all but had hit his head and teeth. I came into the room because of all the shouting- asked what had happened, checked with the dc and then went to tell dp that he couldn’t behave like that. Dp then started screaming at me, yelled at the top of his voice and then left the room. He came back from work that evening and refused to talk to me.

As ds 11 is getting older- he’s very tall for an 11 year old, wears age 14 clothes- it’s become more shocking and the last time dp grabbed him, which was this summer, I really explained at length how it was not okay for my dp to grab or shove or drag ds 11 or dc 9 (he’s done it a few times but less with dc 9).

OP, this man is abusing your children. If that comes to the attention of social services - and it will, when they disclose something at school or a neighbour/friend reports it - there will be an inquiry and they will want to see what protective factors are in place for the children. If you are a protective factor, he will be barred from contact and they will stay with you. If you are not a protective factor - because you know he is abusive and you are not keeping them safe - the worse-case scenario is they will be removed from your care too. This is not done lightly and you would be told clearly that you need to kick him out and go no-contact before they removed them, but why wait for the authorities to tell you to do what you must know needs to be done for these children?

I'm surprised you even have to ask to be honest

My partner has not been talking to me for nearly a week now.

That alone is childish and abusive

He did break his silence to shout at me in front of my parents over Christmas which was humiliating

More abuse and he seems pretty controlling too. Why do you think you can't leave?

He also threw some things around on Christmas day in front of the kids which was scary.

That's dv and absolutely not fair on dc, this is the kinda shit I grew up with. Please leave for their sake. Absolutely no good reason to stay with kids involved especially

because it is reminding me a lot of my parents marriage

Same here

Op how old are dc? Cos when they get to rebellious pre teen/teen age the abuse will be turned on them too. I'm over 30 years out that house and I STILL jump at certain noises.

I've been really trying to see the good things he does, be affectionate and adapt to his preferences. So this is what couples' therapy has taught you to do? What is he doing in turn to help your relationship?

A great example of why couples therapy shouldn't happen where there's abuse, a decent therapist would have flagged this.

I just really don’t want this horse to be dead, for practical more than sentimental reasons.

What practical reasons? You're earning, what's the situation with housing? It's already dead you can't revive it alone and this is REALLY unfair on dc.

and I don’t think I could take the upheaval.

I think in the long term the short term upheaval will be worth it

Re kids around dad after split, 1 kids aren't stupid and 2 this type of dad rarely makes effort to stay in touch with kids anyway so it becomes a moot point

If what monsteramunch said is true then yes you are unreasonable to stay with someone who is abusing you & dc

Don't understand why you're asking for help but stubbornly refuse to entertain the realistic notion that the only way forward is to leave. Why can't you leave? Why can't he leave? It's nothing to do with the loft, it's a metaphor for your relationship, he dumps all his anger, resentment on you and you dutifully process it and silently file it away for him. You could be having a life, are you honestly willing to provide this backdrop as a model to your DC, showing them how to tolerate abuse?

Maybe the op is scared what he'll do if she leaves

100% this. But @Franklyfrost if you are determined to stay with this dreadful man and let him have a horrible effect on your kids’ lives, nothing any of us say will make any difference.

This is who he is and the version of him where he isn’t a massive twat isn’t waiting around the corner. Deep down you know you are not in the wrong but you are willing to entertain the idea in a desperate attempt to avoid the bloody obvious, which is to LTB.

Your energies would be better spent getting your ducks in a row than the futile pursuit of placating an intractable man baby.

The loft thing is just one of those small battlegrounds that all relationships have - whether the washing up should be left in the drainer, should certain condiments be kept in the fridge etc etc. In savage moments my partner and I have almost divorced over the cooking of rice, and who takes the recycling out..... But we have never not spoken to each other for 6 days over it, and we can both be stubborn and petty as fuck....

In honesty I probably WOULD find your attitude to the loft a bit controlling, BUT (and this is a big but) if I loved you I would find a way to live with it. I might display exasperation at times, and I might not always abide by your loft rules, but I would not use it as an excuse to be a shit to my wife and child over Xmas.

Seriously, you need to fuck this loser off. Yes it might be financially and practically harder without him - but what price your and the kids' sanity?

Does he even want to be with you? He doesn't sound very happy either. (Not that I think this matters much, given he is choosing to behave like a cunt to you and his kids).

I have a lot of children and commitments which I am just about managing. If I have to move location, get rid of our belongings, change career and do it all alone it will be so difficult for me that my parenting and well-being would nosedive, perhaps catastrophically.

@Franklyfrost it sounds like the thought of leaving is overwhelming to you. May I suggest making a list of the practicalities - house, work, studying, children, finances, etc - then separately make a list under each topic of what you can do, what you think you can't, and any concerns you have. Then one by one go through the bits you're concerned about and ask yourself how you could manage them, eg are your concerns realistic or are you catastrophising (sounds like you are a bit)? If you're unsure about something where could you find the info, who could you ask for advice? Break this huge scary "LTB" into tiny manageable chunks. Making small steps towards a better future, even just by looking into what benefits you might be entitled to if you divorced, is far healthier for you and the children than the present toxic inertia.

We'd been having some difficulties and went to couple's therapy. I've been really trying to see the good things he does, be affectionate and adapt to his preferences.

As with most of these posts it's never about, in this case, the loft. What has he done to help with our marriage and stopping the arguments, or is it all on you? I suspect not, but he is putting all the blame on you. Maybe time for separate sessions?
It would annoy me immensely if someone was messing about with an area I was responsible for, had taken time over and spent money on in order to make my life easier. If the stuff was left on the landing or somewhere people were tripping over then I'd understand it being annoying things were being left. But that's not the case.
Stonewalling, which is what he is doing by ignoring you, is a form of abuse.