your perspective on argument with dh please

[Franklyfrost]

My partner has not been talking to me for nearly a week now. I'd like advice on what to do when the talking does start. We'd been having some difficulties and went to couple's therapy. I've been really trying to see the good things he does, be affectionate and adapt to his preferences. We've not been fighting since maybe October, whereas perviously we were constantly fighting which I found very stressful.

The thing that triggered the not talking was that he did something I'd asked him not to do... this is going to be stupidly long and a bit boring my apologies.

We have a loft space which you can crawl into. I have asked my partner on four or five occasions not to open the door to the loft and dump stuff in there. Instead I'd like him to leave the stuff outside the door where there is plenty of space and its in no ones way in a room he never goes into. I can then put it in right place the loft. His point of view is that it's not a big deal and I need to chill out. Which sounds fair enough BUT

1. because the loft is long and narrow so I can't access the loft when he dumps stuff in the crawl space. I go in there once or twice a week to fetch or return something.
2. he never goes in the loft, I have it all organised and labelled and am really keen to keep the space under control (the stuff in the loft is camping stuff, kids clothes and shoes, seasonal clothing and paperwork relating to the house: it's not MY stuff that I'm organising although I have bought it all as he doesn't contribute to these things)
3. the loft at our old house was a dumping ground, really stressful to find anything, my partner never went in there and when we moved house I did all the packing and moving, including the loft, which was full floor to ceiling full of miscellaneous chaos and never again will I have a loft of doom.

I feel like, given that I do all the maintenance and purchasing of the loft stuff, as well as having paid to have the have the loft turned into a storage space, he can help out by leaving things outside the door rather than opening the door and flinging them in. I've explained my fear of the loft becoming disorganised (it is a long tunnel type space) and asked him 4-5 times to not fling things in. He did it again 6 days ago and won't talk about it, I asked what the problem was with my request and if we could solve it together, he replied that the solution was for me to chill out. He always sees me as the problem and seems to have no concept of being in the wrong or compromise and he is very sensitive to feeling controlled or complained about. I told him I didn't want to be in a relationship with him (although in practice I can't really leave). He's not spoken to me for 6 days, ignores me when I speak to him, will answer a direct question (rudely) if I repeat it several times. He did break his silence to shout at me in front of my parents over Christmas which was humiliating. He also threw some things around on Christmas day in front of the kids which was scary. At some point we'll have to talk. Was I asking too much? Is he in the right? I feel like his behaviour is wrong, especially over Christmas but maybe I deserve it for some unspecified reason. I really don't know what to do or say when he is ready to talk. Any advice? I feel numb, I feel like I want to make up and say it's all okay but I don't want to forgive him and he won't ever try to make amends as he things I'm in the wrong. Help me! No ltb thanks, it is not going to happen. The question is how to navigate or survive the bastard.

The horse is very extremely dead. Why is it that you simply can’t leave/end the relationship? Just finances?

I hope the op is a troll. If not then there are yet more children having a shit abusive childhood.

www.stowefamilylaw.co.uk/blog/2020/06/26/what-is-stonewalling/

I've just read your update about the wrapping paper.. he is bat sh!t!! And around your kids too, how old are they?

He sounds really unhinged and no amount of work on your side will change that really. I hope you don't cause yourself and your children too much damage before you learn this. Take care x

After reading about the wrapping paper I can conclude your dh is a freaking nut job.
A total fruitloop. A sandwich short of a picnic. Get it?
Either leave the bastard or just put up with his batshittery. Your choice.

@deeperthanallroses
deeperthanallroses · Today 22:52
The horse is very extremely dead. Why is it that you simply can’t leave/end the relationship? Just finances?

Not just finances, I don’t want to give too many personal details away but I’m already overwhelmed (elderly parents, SEN etc) and I don’t think I could take the upheaval. Staying here I can keep it together enough to be a functioning adult and a good mother. I know it sounds pathetic, especially to the ltb crew, but I have a lot of children and commitments which I am just about managing. If I have to move location, get rid of our belongings, change career and do it all alone it will be so difficult for me that my parenting and well-being would nosedive, perhaps catastrophically.

wow.
Im afraid you cant see the wood for the trees.
His behaviour around the loft is abusive. His reaction when you try to speak about it is abusive. The silent treatment, yes, thats abusive.

I suggest he LIKES making it difficult for you because, as you say, its harder for him to chuck stuff in that space than simply leave it, so its a deliberate choice.

And the crap with stuffing old used wrapping paper into the drawers, well to be clear OP, thats completely mental of him. Not that I think he is mental, I think he is abusive.

Its never recommended to go to councelling with an abuser, because they use it as a way to further abuse - and he has, hasnt he. He has taken all the counsellors time, and made them focus on changing YOUR behaviour, not even started on the 50-50 compromise. I note that there was nothing in those sessions that suggested he should change any of his behaviours.

Find a counsellor. But not this one - theyve been hoodwinked. You need one who understands coercion and control, because this is whats going on.

and no. he is adding to your challenges. The SEN etc is going to be totally exasperated by his treament. You will have much more headspace and peace of mind without his bloody fuckwittery and you constantly anticipating the eggshell walking. You think you wont manage, but 100% you will, because I bet you 10000 that you are already managing most of it.

OP I have every sympathy for you. This could be my DH, who has literally just yelled at me I'm a controlling bully after a discussion about why he was so horrible to me the last few days. He's mostly great but when he's stressed about anything - work, Christmas, noisy/messy kids, he's hungry etc etc - he can be vile - spiteful shouty and sweary.
I dont mean to hijack but I empathise with your position that you don't want to ltb as I feel the same.
Can I ask others who do think ltb is the best solution about how it is when the ex DH inevitably has his time with the kids alone?
His temper will never change and being divorced would make him even more angry bitter and hard done by. I could totally imagine him badmouthing me and encouraging bad behaviour from them - I couldn't let the kids face that without me there to protect them.
Hence I feel ltb would make everything way worse. I agree with you OP the best way is to keep him calm and happy as much as poss- not pandering to him as I definitely tell it like it is, but trying to monitor likely rage triggers and keep the house happy and loving - which it is mostly apart from these horrible scary outbursts.

@GoT1904 GoT1904 · Today 22:57
www.stowefamilylaw.co.uk/blog/2020/06/26/what-is-stonewalling/

That’s an interesting read. It’s good to have a name for it. He sort of stonewalls even when he is talking to me, like my opinions don’t penetrate.

I wonder if he is trying to scupper your studies too - you say you already contribute more than him, and I guess your studies will potentially increase that?

This sounds like a nasty petty man who wants to knock the stuffing out of you

children are not stupid. If you are primary carer, which is a given with this type, they will see through dads bluster and badmouth, because they will be living their good life with you.
And after time, his behaviour will mean that they will decide not to spend time with him, if he carries on like that.

Your opinions don't penetrate because he doesn't see you as an equal human being with your own thoughts or feelings.

You are a service human being there to service his needs, provide his audience and make his life easier. You are two dimensional to him. It's highly likely his children are too.

You are not being a good mother by keeping your children in the same house as this man. You're also heading for a complete overhaul of your own beliefs, self-esteem, rational thoughts and self worth. Please please please seek help and get rid of this man. Who knows what this man is capable of the next time you do something he doesn't like!!!

You get a court order to restrict contact with the kids to supervised due to their behaviour.

@NettleTea thankyou for this. They do seem to be realising this increasingly now. My DS gave me a massive cuddle yesterday and said he really really loved me after DH had been ranting, and tonight my DD was trying to avoid him after he saw her up at 10pm and said bloody children still awake - all in her earshot :( Thing is he puts on a great act and can be the life and soul for as long as he can be bothered, then wants everyone in bed asleep and house spotless again when he gets bored of it. When he's not stressed things are fine- just as I relax and get used to it something will set him off again.

Can you not bring this up at the counselling session
That's a mental reaction shoving that paper in the drawers. He sounds unhinged

The words "LTB" seem to be the mantra on MN, even though it's not that easy, and planning ahead & money are always required. However, reading through your post again, he is using his silence to punish and humiliate you, and if you back down, it will be lather, rinse repeat throughout your time with him. The only way to resolve this is to separate.

@Franklyfrost did he agree to counselling? That's something at least. Does he ever apologise or acknowledge his behaviour afterwards? How old are your DC?

Not a good thing at all. HE got what he wanted from counselling which is OP doubting herself,working hard to compromise,change and let things go while he continues to be an abusive arsehole.

@FfayeN thank you. That is something for me to think about sadly.

A year ago you posted this about him:

Yesterday morning dp grabbed ds 11, lifted him and in doing so banged his head against a piece of furniture. Ds 11 had accidentally hurt ds 5 while playing with him- enough to make ds 5 cry for a few seconds but nothing serious. Ds 11 freaked out- he wasn’t badly hurt at all but had hit his head and teeth. I came into the room because of all the shouting- asked what had happened, checked with the dc and then went to tell dp that he couldn’t behave like that. Dp then started screaming at me, yelled at the top of his voice and then left the room. He came back from work that evening and refused to talk to me.

I cannot believe you have continued a relationship with this man and in the thread you say you didn't believe the word 'abuse' applied to this situation.

I'll be honest, it's very hard to sympathise with you wanting to stay to placate a man who has abused your child repeatedly.

Your poor children.

It doesn't matter who is right or wrong, it's the fact that he has continued the silent treatment for 6 days over Christmas and been abusive to you ( publicly) and in front of your children. You could have been completely in the wrong and it still wouldn't justify his subsequent behaviour.
If you apologise and 'forgive' him, he will think he can bully you into doing what he wants, and can manipulate you so that you won't ever ask for his help or support in running the house, or make any demands of him.

Looks like the children are suffering at the hands of this vile man

He's also physically manhandled your other kids and his physical abuse of your son has escalated and become 'more shocking' as he gets bigger and stronger. It's clear that your partner feels increasingly entitled to square up to him now he's physically more equal. Disgusting to do any age but he's doing it to an eleven year old.

As ds 11 is getting older- he’s very tall for an 11 year old, wears age 14 clothes- it’s become more shocking and the last time dp grabbed him, which was this summer, I really explained at length how it was not okay for my dp to grab or shove or drag ds 11 or dc 9 (he’s done it a few times but less with dc 9).

As someone said on the other thread:

imagine living in a house with someone you know actively dislikes you, who has physically assaulted you, who is never genuinely sorry, who doesn't think it's wrong, who gets away with it every time, who is bigger and stronger than you AND who you have no choice to leave. You have to stay living with him because the only person who can change that won't help you leave. Imagine the constant state of anxiety that would leave you in. How stressed and frightened you'd be often. That's how your son lives. You wouldn't live that way, why are you making him?

The other thing you might want to consider, especially in the light of what @monsteramunch is saying — what happens when your ds IS big enough to retaliate?

There is a local legend in my hometown about a very similar situation. The young man in question endured a childhood of this shit and when old enough, joined the military to get away from the family home. Once he had sufficiently honed his fitness and skills, he returned home unexpectedly one evening and comprehensively beat the shit out of his abusive ‘parent‘ So much so that the PoS never walked unaided again.