your perspective on argument with dh please

[Franklyfrost]

My partner has not been talking to me for nearly a week now. I'd like advice on what to do when the talking does start. We'd been having some difficulties and went to couple's therapy. I've been really trying to see the good things he does, be affectionate and adapt to his preferences. We've not been fighting since maybe October, whereas perviously we were constantly fighting which I found very stressful.

The thing that triggered the not talking was that he did something I'd asked him not to do... this is going to be stupidly long and a bit boring my apologies.

We have a loft space which you can crawl into. I have asked my partner on four or five occasions not to open the door to the loft and dump stuff in there. Instead I'd like him to leave the stuff outside the door where there is plenty of space and its in no ones way in a room he never goes into. I can then put it in right place the loft. His point of view is that it's not a big deal and I need to chill out. Which sounds fair enough BUT

1. because the loft is long and narrow so I can't access the loft when he dumps stuff in the crawl space. I go in there once or twice a week to fetch or return something.
2. he never goes in the loft, I have it all organised and labelled and am really keen to keep the space under control (the stuff in the loft is camping stuff, kids clothes and shoes, seasonal clothing and paperwork relating to the house: it's not MY stuff that I'm organising although I have bought it all as he doesn't contribute to these things)
3. the loft at our old house was a dumping ground, really stressful to find anything, my partner never went in there and when we moved house I did all the packing and moving, including the loft, which was full floor to ceiling full of miscellaneous chaos and never again will I have a loft of doom.

I feel like, given that I do all the maintenance and purchasing of the loft stuff, as well as having paid to have the have the loft turned into a storage space, he can help out by leaving things outside the door rather than opening the door and flinging them in. I've explained my fear of the loft becoming disorganised (it is a long tunnel type space) and asked him 4-5 times to not fling things in. He did it again 6 days ago and won't talk about it, I asked what the problem was with my request and if we could solve it together, he replied that the solution was for me to chill out. He always sees me as the problem and seems to have no concept of being in the wrong or compromise and he is very sensitive to feeling controlled or complained about. I told him I didn't want to be in a relationship with him (although in practice I can't really leave). He's not spoken to me for 6 days, ignores me when I speak to him, will answer a direct question (rudely) if I repeat it several times. He did break his silence to shout at me in front of my parents over Christmas which was humiliating. He also threw some things around on Christmas day in front of the kids which was scary. At some point we'll have to talk. Was I asking too much? Is he in the right? I feel like his behaviour is wrong, especially over Christmas but maybe I deserve it for some unspecified reason. I really don't know what to do or say when he is ready to talk. Any advice? I feel numb, I feel like I want to make up and say it's all okay but I don't want to forgive him and he won't ever try to make amends as he things I'm in the wrong. Help me! No ltb thanks, it is not going to happen. The question is how to navigate or survive the bastard.

This.

@maccaroni maccaroni · Today 22:16
This reminds me of the end of my marriage. It's not really about the loft. He basically doesn't care about what you think or what is important to you. He isn't interested and telling you to chill out is just a way of shifting blame onto you. I note he isn't willing to compromise, talk about it or apologise. This is all so familiar and so, so damaging to you. When you are in the middle of it, it becomes the normal and you stop noticing. He has no respect for you.

This resonates. It’s the lack of curiosity or even understanding that I might have a different perspective or experience. It leads to a lack of generosity: an unwillingness to adapt.

How do you think your children feel?

You were l ready have relationship counselling so there are obviously other issues. He’s now showing you that he really has no respect for you at all.

You need to protect your Dc from this toxic relationship.

Why can't you leave him? You really should

I find this interesting. I get this with my DH who likes to hoard things, I let it go but our place is now getting so cluttered. I honestly think it starts to get to the point where you actually have irreconcilable differences. It's a big deal to you, and not to him so why do you need to chill out? Given you've been going to counselling, can you use that as a basis to have a conversation about this, the points you've outlined seem totally valid to me. What are his valid points to just dumping it? Is he willing to organise it? Etc?? I doubt it

Giving someone the silent treatment for nearly a week is abusive. It doesn't matter who or what started it. The relationship is fucked. You need to accept that.

What issues did you have previously which made you go to counselling?

With us, it was always me trying to look at a situation and try to see it from his view point. Always me apologising and trying to adapt my behaviour, trying to make it work.
A lot of talk from him about what he wanted from his life, but he never asked me what I thought about anything or what my needs were.
Honestly, if only one of you is making the effort and the other has checked out then you are flogging a dead horse. I spend the last 3 years of our marriage treading on eggshells trying to make everything ok, mostly because I was scared of life alone, the financial implications, the upheaval for the kids etc. But it's no way to live, once there is no respect from him, have some for yourself. Its hard but it is worth it.

'Survive the bastard'?

Your marriage is dead. Get out and enjoy the rest of your life.

The loft is just an excuse for him to be abusive towards you and the DC. 🤷‍♀️

If it weren’t the loft, it would be some other minor thing that I’m sure he’s doing on purpose to trick you into saying a mild “hey you forgot to do x.” So he can unleash his inner gremlin.

Really. I’m not a huge LTB poster, this is pretty rare for me to say. Im sorry though, I really think he enjoys treating you like shit and he’s engineering these little faux pas as bait to give him an excuse.

He also threw some things around on Christmas day in front of the kids which was scary.

What are your thoughts on this OP?

This would usually be the focus of a post, not a throwaway mention that is then ignored in your later responses to people.

So what are your thoughts on it specifically?

@Nandocushion
Nandocushion · Today 22:20
I think you sound weird about the loft space. But a normal, rational man's response to that - if he also thinks it's weird - would be to shrug, say ah she's just weird about that, nothing to be done about it, and do what you ask. All the stuff he's doing instead is horrible.

Why do you think you "deserved" this reaction, just because it's the reaction he gave you? Do you not think it's possible he is being unreasonable? I'm deliberately being disingenuous even asking that because it's clear you just want everything to be okay and go back to normal. Unfortunately the only way for that to happen is for you to shut up and apologise and keep your mouth shut about anything else at any time that might displease him.

I've been really trying to see the good things he does, be affectionate and adapt to his preferences. So this is what couples' therapy has taught you to do? What is he doing in turn to help your relationship?

I may well be weird about the loft space as I am disorganised and easily overwhelmed by lots of objects (specific learning and gross motor skill disorders). Plus, I still have flashbacks of wading through junk trying to find things in loft at our old house.

I might deserve dp’s reaction because maybe I’m in the wrong. Dp thinks I’m in the wrong. I think he’s wrong. It’s possible we’re both wrong. It’s possible he’s right and I’m wrong. Maybe I’m not a victim but a pita.

The couple’s therapist asked to just see my dp in the last two sessions. Im considering asking if I can see her alone too. It’s hard because dp doesn’t want to contribute his opinion or admit to having any sentiments, it’s all always him being right and me being wrong, so therapy is a little slow. However, he made clear some things he thought I was doing wrong and I’ve tried to adapt to his wishes because that’s the behaviour I’d like to see from him.

Just apologise by being so over The top about the loft

When my mum left my dad it felt less stressful (I was 9) and I felt happier despite the uprooting.

I used to see my dad behave like a difficult arsehole and I lost confidence and was scared a lot around others. I'm still wary of him now tbh.

I hope you can focus less on the loft and more on yourself and your kids. I mean that kindly.

The couple’s therapist asked to just see my dp in the last two sessions. Im considering asking if I can see her alone too. It’s hard because dp doesn’t want to contribute his opinion or admit to having any sentiments, it’s all always him being right and me being wrong, so therapy is a little slow. However, he made clear some things he thought I was doing wrong and I’ve tried to adapt to his wishes because that’s the behaviour I’d like to see from him.

Seriously, WTF? It sounds like he is only going along with therapy because he thinks it will get you into line! Is he honestly not trying to make any self improvements?

Your partner is abusive,narcissistic and is punishing you with the silent treatment which is tipical of narcissists. The silent treatment is a form of abuse by the way. Ditch him. You’re walking over eggshells what a horrible man.

But she shouldn't apologise for him ignoring her for 6 days and then being rude to her at xmas and throwing stuff in front of the kids, which OP said she found "scary". He owes her a huge apology for that.

So when you ask him to have a chat about it he tells you to chill out like the issue is you are overreacting, but then he goes on to ignore you for days, shout at you and throw stuff around?

There is only one person over reacting and needing to chill here and thats him.

Even if he thinks your system is over complicated, his reaction is not justified.

@monsteramunch

monsteramunch · Today 22:33
He also threw some things around on Christmas day in front of the kids which was scary.

What are your thoughts on this OP?

This would usually be the focus of a post, not a throwaway mention that is then ignored in your later responses to people.

So what are your thoughts on it specifically?

I was scared of physical violence from him for the first time. I don’t think he would hurt me physically but in the moment I did think he might hurt me.

Again it was a silly thing, the kids had opened their stocking presents and I was collecting the wrapping paper up. I said, ‘I‘ll go and get the recycling bag for the paper’, went and got one and when I came back five seconds later he was putting the wrapping paper into the kid’s toy drawers. I said ‘it’s okay I’ve got a bag’ and took the paper out of the drawers to put it in the bag. He started picking more paper up from the floor and putting it in the kids drawers and so I took the paper out of the drawers to put it in the bag. He grabbed the bag, threw the paper around the room, shoved more paper in the drawers, slamming them closed etc. It was the violence of his movement but also the irrationality of putting the paper in the toy drawers in the first place that made me scared.

You are focusing on the wrong thing. Forget the who is right who is wrong where the loft stuff should go. Take the scenario out of the situation.

Do you want to be with a man who, if you ask the wrong question, will ignore you, throw things and shout at you in front of the children?

Don't live a life treading on eggshells.

I'm shocked your response doesn't mention how your children would have felt about this aggression from him.

That's actually really sad, the poor things.

@maccaroni
maccaroni · Today 22:31
With us, it was always me trying to look at a situation and try to see it from his view point. Always me apologising and trying to adapt my behaviour, trying to make it work.

A lot of talk from him about what he wanted from his life, but he never asked me what I thought about anything or what my needs were.

Honestly, if only one of you is making the effort and the other has checked out then you are flogging a dead horse. I spend the last 3 years of our marriage treading on eggshells trying to make everything ok, mostly because I was scared of life alone, the financial implications, the upheaval for the kids etc. But it's no way to live, once there is no respect from him, have some for yourself. Its hard but it is worth it.

Thanks for sharing, again it all sounds familiar and it’s good to hear you got out the other end. I am trying to do a lot of adapting. I just really don’t want this horse to be dead, for practical more than sentimental reasons.

The loft is a red herring.

It is simply one thing which is important to you. He is riding roughshod over your boundaries and using you pushing back over the loft as an excuse to be aggressive and abusive.

There’s no acknowledgment from the OP of any posters saying (rightly) that this man is a narcissistic bastard and she should leave him.

Either OP is a troll who likes winding MNetters up and knows which buttons to press. Or OP is really not seeing the reality of the situation. I hope it’s scenario 1), really, as there are children involved. But OP, if this is real, then this man is damaging your children. He really is. The best thing you can do for them as their mother is to protect them by leaving him.