Anyone else married a subconscious mysoginist?

[Popcornio]

I married a nice guy.
But he's not really I've learned over time.

He's a bit of a sheep, follows crappy ingrained societal values and I can see he's part of the problem. He's a sexist but is offended when I suggest so... he can't see his own subconscious sexism, he's not outwardly sexist like some.

Has anyone else married one of these "nice" guys, who aren't really? Has anyone else come across this with their husbands and if so what do they do/say?

My OH made one comment that I thought was misogynistic.

He said “women can commit domestic violence and control too”. Normally I’d see this as a red flag.

I found out that he witnessed domestic violence and coercive control as a child and the perpetrator was a female family member. So this was him expressing his experience. Not misogyny.

This made me really think I have to say. I think it’s important to look at their behaviour as a whole, not just jump on one comment without understanding the context.

@Lookingoutside I'm with you too. I've been in a relationship for 13 years, we don't live together - he works in a city quite a distance away. He's been pushing over the last few months for us to live together ... it's not going to happen.

Another one of those who thinks he's 'woke' (for want of a better word), but isn't, really. All 'TWAW' , but has so many deeply ingrained sexist views (thanks so much, cunt 'father in law') that's it's unreal.

Whenever he discusses his parents finances, it's all 'his dad's money' his mother's money, 'mum owes dad money for such and such'...I've lost fucking count over the last 13 years how many times I've pointed out that as they are married, it's joint fucking money and if they divorced (which they should have done 30 years ago) his mother would automatically get half the equity in 'their' house, half his dad's pension, etc...he still can't fucking wrap his head around that concept.

Deploys deliberate strategic incompetence when it comes to most household tasks...and DIY, I do the fucking lot. When he comes here he often treats my flat like it's a fucking hotel, it's a real struggle to get him to clean up after himself, let alone 'help' me keep the place clean and tidy. 'Oh but you like doing housework': got his arse handed to him when he was stupid enough to use that one.

I'm 55 this year, far too old to train a man like he's some sort of dog (and I hate dogs, anyway).

My parents divorced when I was 21. I often used to wonder why my mother (47 at the time) never bothered having another relationship again. I totally understand now, and if mine ended tomorrow, I'd quite happily be on my own with my two cats.

It only takes the most gentle of scratches to the surface to unearth it.

My current DH is the least sexist man I have ever met. He was a union rep for many years and although he didnt discuss the role, he used to say the cases he saw in his job used to make him ashamed to be a man.

My ex DH was a different matter. Horrifically sexist and used it to abuse me. He was also the biggest coward I have ever met. He would constantly start fights by hurling abuse at random men and neighbours, then he would run and hide and get me to handle it.

When i was on the way out of the relationship, he started hurling insults at next door. 10 mins later the ( 6ft 4 personal trainer)was hammering at the door. I answered the door and very cheerfully escorted neighbour through the house to the dining room at back of house where husband was hiding. With a huge smile on my face I announced " Hi, its X from next door. I understand you have some mans business to attend too!"

Funnily enough, after dragging his heels for 3 months, ex moved out 2 days later........

Sorry don’t want to derail but this is the best description of a date I have ever read.

Yeah, not married luckily, but he's definitely one of those people who during the Weinstein revelations thought it was mostly the women's faults - that they didn't have to go near him etc.
As to what I do, inwardly seeth. sometimes try to argue the point. Hope he won't say stupid things to our two daughters.

I also like the sound of that date!!

I think women are opening their eyes this at last. However some of these male behaviours are getting louder because they are realising we have woken up. Hence the andrew tates etc

Interesting times as we try and get equality - men don’t want to give all of that up

Well I didn't but many of my friends have. It's most guys if you're over 35 (not sure about younger ones) so it's more likely than not. It's also most women. My mum is lovely but she's sexist towards women.

What can you do? I have a male friend whose unintentionally like this. Pick out the worst examples and explain every now and then why it's so offensive and what would they think if this bullying happened to them. For example he said EDI is woke. I'll give an example of a woman builder at work and relate it to bullying he experienced and say basically imagine if that happens to you all the time!

Yes, me too, like so many others on here.

DH is to all intents and purposes a nice guy, universally liked. However, part of him never quite grew up, and behind closed doors he falls back on the gender roles and stereotypical behaviour he grew up with.

He SAYS he'd like to have a partnership of equals but never takes any ititiative to help around the house and with kids (and when I ask him to, he accuses me of nagging).

He SAYS he's supportive of my career but undermines it in subtle ways. Insists on advancing his career to the detriment of family life, while leaving me to do everything else.

He SAYS he respects me and would like to understand my POV but lays blame for everything that's wrong in his life (and with his attitude) at my door.

But everyone else - including my parents - believe he's a brilliant husband. If only they knew.

My DH will not read any book written by a woman. He says he wouldn’t enjoy it. How he knows this, when he’s never read one, I do not know.

This is absolutely horrendous.

On the question of internalised misogyny, my mum was terrible. Her religious beliefs only hardened the belief that men were inherently...more... than women.

@Lookingoutside I think a large proportion are as you say. It's difficult because I've been taught like many women that if a man is kind and basically as they should be, then they're angels and you owe them a favour. I try to remind myself men don't deserve an award for being decent human beings. I basically idolised a guy at work for just being a kind, smart decent person. So embarrassing 😳

This thread is so sad but so glad women are talking about this. It’s the only way out Dds will stop making the same mistake.

I knew pretty early on my dh respected women and I’d already known enough misogyny from close male relatives and work colleagues to know which kind of man NOT to go for. Thinking women are inferior beings is an Instant turn off for me!

Fuck it, I'll open myself up for a beating.

Hi, I'm fdgdfgdfgdfg, and I'm a subconscious mysogynist.

I've always done almost equal childcare, I do all the cooking, share the laundry, the washing up, the hoovering etc.

I'm terfy as they come, (spending 15 years on here will do that). I teach my daughter to do the man jobs, to drill, to fix the car, to maintain her bike.

I fully believe that women can do anything a man can, and that men should do anything a woman does.

I am conciously a feminist, but I am also a product of my upbringing. I am the son of a man who fucked off surfing and playing rugby every weekend while his wife raised the kids. A man who cheated and expected to get away with it. A man who, when it comes down to it, thought women were lesser.

I still go for the man job first, if there's a DIY thing and a school thing that needs doing, I'll reach for the DIY thing. I know that my daughter won't forget about cookery in school, because DP is on it.

I find myself lazing on the sofa after Christmas dinner, instead of cleaning up, because someone else will do it.

I hear two scientists arguing on the TV, and Im automatically biased towards the male one until I spot what I'm doing and smack myself upside the head.

DP tells me that my SIL was raped while on holiday by her male friend, and I wonder why she went on holiday with a man by herself. I was disgusted with myself immediately, but the thought was still there.

To the outside world I'm probably one of the good ones. I'm a feminist, I support women's issues, I am an equal partner with DP, to the extent that other men call me whipped.

But the mysoginist is still there, a little gremlin part of me that regularly tries to pop his head above the parapet and needs kicking back into place.

I suppose at least you're aware of it and are working to try to counter it.

My mother has internalised misogyny. I did too until I found feminism. I battle it now occasionally in myself. My dh largely is not misogynistic but he doesn’t get everything of course. It helps that we have a dd to protect against males
behaviour but he never thinks I need protection, despite my being disabled.

@fdgdfgdfgdfg At least your aware of it and trying! Many men seem to want to boast about the behaviours/thoughts you describe. Do try harder though please 😂

With you on this. I think certain phrases that can sound a bit sexist like 'ill take you out' but they're not indicative of a sexist person just habits. I tend to just joke about this like ' I wouldn't take you there either'.

I would have an issue with what the DH said too, if my DH said it to me. It's fine to be warned that the pub is a bit rough... but not the sort of pub he would 'take me' to implies that the OP can't make her own decision on where she would like to go, that the DH is 'protecting' her and deciding what is suitable for her. There's also an implication that women couldn't possibly cope with a rough environment, that it's not appropriate for them.

I know that may seem like a stretch on what was no doubt intended to be a kind and noble act, but it's infantilising to me. I can decide where I want to go!

This is so depressing, but I can see how it happens. Someone isn't going to come right out and say 'I hate women' on a first date, they reveal these qualities slowly over time. I've definitely dated misogynists in the past and had internalised misogyny myself. Ironically it was dating these dinosaurs that woke me up to it and made me question my own biases. I'm now a staunch feminist.

On my dating app profile I wrote that I was a socialist feminist. I immediately wanted to weed out people who didn't agree with that. I challenge my male friends on any sexism (and my female friends if they say something misogynist). I actively call out bigotry if I see it, in real life or online. I move in wanky liberal media circles so I don't encounter some of the knuckle-dragging types described here because I guess I gravitate towards other people who are aware of their own prejudices and want to be better.

My male partner, on account of being a man, probably does have some misogyny in him because that's the society we've been raised in, and I genuinely don't believe it's possible to be a man and not have absorbed it, no matter how much you think yourself out of it. But he has never shown it. He has honestly never said or done anything that I've had to pull him up on, and he will discuss gender inequality with me enthusiastically. I wouldn't remain in a relationship with anyone who didn't meet that criteria.

Not married, but unfortunately yes 😔 and he didn't show that side until I moved in with him and it got worse once I was pregnant

We all have biases we are not aware of. How do we respond when we become or are made aware? I'm a pretty shit human so in my case in the past, not so well. I was a SAHD for some time but even though I had no problem with my ex wife earring more than me and having far more qualifications in and of itself. I saw myself as an inadequate man in the eyes of other men for not earning more, for not being 'the provider'. So surface nice guy and misogynistic narc underneath fits me to a tee.

On a related point, why do I read 'He's had his head turned' so often? Does that not position the (usually) OW as more active in the process than the man. Does it link to that old trope of women out to 'steal' men'? Surely 'He chose to turn his head' is actually what happened. I don't think women should be seen as responsible for the shit behaviours (some) men do.

your last point is a far one. the OW is held responsible for the man cheating on his wife, his deception and lies, and breaking up a family. It's the same mentality that leads people to question what sexual assault victims were wearing, or what domestic violence victims did to provoke violent partners. See also the narrative that evil scheming Meghan forced Harry to abandon his family (sorry for mentioning them)

My mother is also a terrible misogynist ... she's a practicing Catholic, which has a lot to do with it.

Too many examples to mention, but the most recent one (which shocked me to the core) is that she supports Prince Andrew and thinks Virginia Giuffre is a whore of Satan! Oh and the famous photo was photoshopped...

I tried arguing with her over it, but she just wouldn't accept that 17 year old Virginia was the victim ... apparently 'she was old enough, she knew what she was doing'...

I've had to listen to absolute horrible bullshit like that from my mother all my life. Very low contact with her now, it's one of a million reasons why.

@TedMullins Yep, nearly 35 years on my mother still firmly believes the OW is the one to blame for my father's exit affair. Apparently as a 'southern whore' she lured my father away... 'a northern girl would have told him no'... so she has that bias as well as being deeply misogynistic. The fact that he cheated on her for the whole of their marriage is conveniently ignored. My father has been married to the OW for 34 years, 11 years longer than he was married to my mother.

Yep the ex.
Everyone thought he was a nice guy, floppy Liberal poet type. Actually the views he and his friends had of women and the lack of challenge he gave to his friends appalling behaviour was terrible. Also very angry if confronted and too cowardly to change