Anyone else married a subconscious mysoginist?

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I married a nice guy.
But he's not really I've learned over time.

He's a bit of a sheep, follows crappy ingrained societal values and I can see he's part of the problem. He's a sexist but is offended when I suggest so... he can't see his own subconscious sexism, he's not outwardly sexist like some.

Has anyone else married one of these "nice" guys, who aren't really? Has anyone else come across this with their husbands and if so what do they do/say?

Mine genuinely not, at least he will challenge himself / own prejudice so actively against his own subconscious bias as it were and very pro women in general - even asked me if I thought he was exercising coercive control about a money thing the other day . Which he isn't, too much training at work I think. Practically all my friend's DHs yes,(with poss exception of two) in not so subtle ways! They don't question themselves, ever. They could never be married to me and vice versa..

Totally agree.

And my STBX is really nice. Everybody sees Mr Nice Guy and Mr Fair. Which he is. In the outside world to the point that when he came out with the crap about how I shouldn't expect to have a career because I'm a mother I didn't believe he was really saying it. I couldn't believe what I was a) hearing and b) that he was saying it. Unashamedly.

Not a chance in hell I'd have gone on a first date with him if he'd said those words when we met. Wouldn't have married him if he'd said it before marriage too. But never, ever said it and all the important women in his life work and have careers.

I don’t understand what this means.

I thought he was being considered, I wouldn’t (as a woman) want to go to place that is ’rough’ and would be happy to be pre-warned.

Jesus, I thought these kind of people were pretty rare finds these days, where do you lot find your Husband's!?

On the contrary: very little has changed.

I can’t understand how people can be married to someone and they can still be surprised about who they fundamentally are as a person; basic things like bigotry (internal, subconscious, deep-rooted) would be a deal breaker for me and something I could discern about the person before even progressing to a serious relationship, let alone marriage.

early on I knew my now ex-husbands views on others-be it race, sexism, poverty etc. likewise, I’ve not pursued friendships with work colleagues if they’ve shown themselves to have views I don’t like such as racism, disability views etc. I get that some people don’t have political discussions in relationships but surely these opinions are the basic tenet of what the person is, and not too difficult to discern?

No my husband does his share of childcare, housework, school and extra curricular runs etc and is respectful of the women in his teams at work.

I find other people really sexist like his family and some of my family are impressed and praise him for ironing his own clothes, taking parental leave and helping out with the kids. I’m there thinking wtf why is he getting praised for doing what should be expected of him!

Thankfully, no, although that is by luck rather than judgement because DH and I met at university in the 90s and I was pretty young, naïve and had a healthy dose of internalised misogyny myself.

Interesting how many posters who say their misogynistic partners present as / see themselves as "nice guys". MN has really opened my eyes to the woke bro phenomenon, and now I'm much older and a little wiser I find that the more a man talks the talk the less likely he is to walk the walk. Sadly some of my friends husbands are awful - particularly the wealthier ones. Almost as if they feel able to let the mask drop as they get richer and their wives get older.

DH was a stereotypical rugby-playing, beer-drinking lad when we met (as were all his friends) and at face value you wouldn't take him as a feminist ally. But he had excellent role models in both his father and his mother who, despite having a pretty traditional marriage for the time (father the breadwinner, mother the homemaker) had a very equal and respectful relationship, which I'm really pleased that we have been able to replicate.

I see it in the corporate world too - the more a company professes to be anti all forms of -isms, the more suspicious I am that they are paying lip service to try and compensate for a toxic culture.

Me too. Its a problem for him that i havw a more successful career.

Luckily i have raised my daughter and sons to call him out every single time and he just looks like an old dinosaur with outdated views.

No, my husband is not like this. I couldn’t be bothered ‘teaching’ him if he was like this. I don’t think men like that want to be taught. And as a woman I don’t want to have to explain that I am a human being equal to others to the person who is supposed to love me more than anyone else.

It is everywhere, and is quite insidious. Work, sports clubs, friends, family, complete strangers etc To borrow the current phase, at best it is unconscious bias, many men are completely unaware they are doing it. Some are aware and do it 'for fun' and 'as a wind up'. It is in the conversations they have, the questions they ask, the jokes they make. And yes, nice guys are also part of this .

I have noticed it tones down quite a bit when they want something from you but it comes back. I pick my battles and sometimes I challenge it, sometimes i turn the situation against them.

Stuff like this - hearing women say they are ‘training’ their husbands to ‘help’ makes me feel a bit sick to be honest. I don’t see my husband that way. If I felt he needed to be trained to do his share and not treat me like shit I wouldn’t want to be with him. You know every time he says a woman driving a nice car is a waste he’s inherently saying any man is more deserving of that type of luxury than you, because any man is inherently worth more. If he loves men so much let him go and have sex with them and they can ‘train’ him to ‘help out.’

One of the very few things I miss about my ex is his lack of mysogeny. He supported women's sports, he supported his very clever daughter into a STEM career and defended her against other family members who thought it wasn't suitable for a girl, he lived domestic equality, he would challenge sexism. I can't be doing with training or teaching a grown adult this stuff.

But it isn’t just men. A lot women are sexist and misogynistic towards other women. They really believe that men are better than them, in many ways. My mum is like this. One of the number one reasons I have lost respect for her. Very insidious.

Absolutely this is true. My mother is also terrible for this. Her specific pet hates are "woman doctors" who are all "bitches" (she would much rather have all-male medical care, despite having received excellent care from female practitioners and frankly shit care from many male practitioners - she conveniently forgets the crap ones and remembers the "lovely" ones). Written down it really is quite shocking but it is so ingrained. You can see her struggle with the dichotomy of having three daughters she adores and hugely respects (two of whom went to Oxbridge - not that that matters but illustrates the point that rationally she knows women are as capable as men) but at the same time really hating women. To be fair she isn't too keen on men either, she's a bit of a misanthrope.

DH isn’t like this and absolutely bizarrely he has a decent group of school friends who aren’t like it either. His uni mates aren’t so great.

Some of DHs smartest mates are chippies/firemen/plasterers, really really deep thinkers. They saw straight through the worst parts of trans ideology straight off the bat even though they are utterly liberal in every other aspect of their personalities. Really judgey pants about strip shows and sex work, about the men supporting it not the women. They are some of my favourite people. DH would be an easily led nightmare without them because he is such a shallow thinker but they have enormously influenced his ideas along the way and made him conscious of the issues. Love ‘em.

Not my husband but a friend's DH told her that if women are so upset about MeToo, then they should just kill themselves. And told me if I wasn't married, i'd be a prostitute.

Many men I know only want baby boys or are over the top proud to have a boy.

DH and his old pals are not like this at all. In fact my husband pointed out that occasionally I’ve made comments that express some internalised misogyny and so I’ve learnt/thought more about it. His school mates all now 50 have similar outlook and wonderful.

depressingly DH tells me that in many offices he’s worked in over the years, misogynistic ‘banter’ remains rife, and often occurs when a woman leaves the room and it’s just lonely voices that call it out. Depressing really.

And I would agree with this which is why I will never work for a woman ever again. I am not saying all women managers are bad but after enduring 3 women managers who have always run to male colleague(s) for technical info or if there is a crisis, despite the fact I was the SME, my fingers have been burnt.

My mum is not much better tbh.

My DH will not read any book written by a woman. He says he wouldn’t enjoy it. How he knows this, when he’s never read one, I do not know.

As part of his xmas present I bought him a biography of his sports hero. But the biography was written by a woman so he won’t open it.

Sigh. I‘m actually quite envious of assisted marriages, where you give your prospective spouse a questionnaire and try to find out their views on stuff before the relationship gets serious.

My dh is not like this. He’s always been quite woke, but I don’t think with of us considered sexism much before we had children, then it just becomes a minefield doesn’t it. He will call out others at work and has lovely friends.

I'm afraid I don't think it's just men. The "values" are so ingrained.

My boss, a very successful woman, genuinely believes in and supports women in high places, but she wouldn't ask a junior man to empty the dishwasher, organise the sandwiches or Chrostmas gifts for customers.

My df was a gem - tough as old boots but never hesitated to change a nappy, scrub a toilet - completely gender blind when it came to work. Loved football and was as proud when the local women’s team were doing well as he was about the men’s.

No man has ever lived up to him though.

My dad does all those things too, but he still has some odd views about young women "throwing themselves" at the rich older men who groomed them or about how women should dress if they're not "asking for it".

It's much bigger than just doing your bit.

Lookingoutside, I completely agree with you, I am often agog at the amount of women who let a man live with them having known them less than a year, then whinge when they turn out to be lazy, smelly, a cocklodger, abusive, controlling, stoner, gambler.

If you know me I am often saying 'you can enjoy a relationship without living together you know'. Until I had DC and got married I refused point blank to live with any boyfriend, why should I, I need my own space. You can still enjoy a meal, pub visit, game of Scrabble, sex, then climb off and say 'goodbye, see you next week'.

You are right when you say what's the point in training them? there isn't it's a waste of time.