Do I tell DW about her mother's health? (Stately homes adjacent)

[SiLlyPoint]

MiL is a stunted woman who has never shown any love for DW. They were NC for a decade but, when we had DD, DW tried to patch things up, hoping that MiL would at least want a healthy relationship with her granddaughter. That sort of worked for a few years: MiL clearly loved having DD in her life, and DD - whose other grandparents are dead, dead, and domiciled on another continent, respectively - was very fond of her granny. But it turns out that, however much MiL loves my DD, she just hates my DW more. She gradually became more antagonistic towards us, and quite deliberately engineered a great big row 4 Christmases ago. MiL hasn't spoken to us since. DW would say she's just fine with that; it wasn't for her own benefit that she re-established contact with MiL and, if MiL can't even keep up a facade of civility with DW in order to see her granddaughter, then... fuck her.

I am 100% Team DW on this. She has not at any stage behaved unreasonably; in fact, it was really generous of her to open herself up to MiL's bullshit again, and it certainly isn't her fault (REDACTED BY MN as breaks TGs).

But. I still feel sorry for MiL. I know enough about her own early life to know that it's no surprise that she was woefully ill equipped for parenthood. And it's kinda heartbreaking to watch an intellectually limited old woman sabotage herself because she's too bitter and emotionally incompetent to avoid it. And, most of all, I feel sorry for DD, who misses her granny (who has scarcely been actively toxic towards her at all!)

So, for the past 3 Christmases, without DW's knowledge, I've sent MiL a package of photographs of DD from the year. I thought she'd want to see how DD is growing up. And I guess I wanted to keep a perfunctory line of communication open, just in case anyone ever wants to revisit whether an actual relationship is an option. Each time, I've included a note saying that, while my allegiances are entirely with DW, I'm prepared to be a first point of contact if MiL ever wants to reach out.

I have been totally unsurprised to hear nothing back, but that changed today when, in response to my 2022 package, I got a message from MiL's husband. When we get past the attempt to relitigate Christmas 2019 (oh FFS), he discloses that MiL is in ill health, most notably as a result of a recent stroke.

I'm sure many of you will think I've done a stupid or disloyal thing by keeping any sort of communication open. That may well be true; I was never certain it was a good idea, though I hope my intentions were unambiguously good. But - as people who have done a stupid thing like to say - we are where we are. The dilemma I have now is whether to tell DW what I know about her mother's health. I'm not sure she really wants to know, but I also think she might find it upsetting to know that I had information of that type and didn't pass it on. (This isn't about covering my ass, BTW: if the right thing to do is to tell her, I'll tell her; if the right thing to do is to keep schtum, I'll keep schtum; I'm just struggling with what the right thing to do might be...) I've also embroiled us in some ridiculous game theory shit about how 'we' now know that MiL is unwell and if 'we' don't care enough reach out, it'll only prove how justified she was to disown DW in the first place... though I'm not sure we should care whether she feels justified as long as we don't mind the consequence. Finally, although it was under quite different circumstances, I was on very strained terms with my own DM when she died, and I sort of nonspecifically regret not... y'know... trying a bit harder. Are any of these good enough reasons to disturb DW's blissful ignorance?

I'd sure be glad of any wisdom anyone is able to impart.

TL;DR: DW has been NC with MiL for 3 years. I have secretly kept a line of communication open in case anyone changes their mind. I have just heard that MiL has had a stroke. Do I tell DW?

I've also embroiled us in some ridiculous game theory shit about how 'we' now know that MiL is unwell and if 'we' don't care enough reach out, it'll only prove how justified she was to disown DW in the first place wtf. just no.

I don't fully understand the (overly IMO) dramatic responses from some posters on here.

If you had been sending regular correspondence back and forward or even facilitating contact in person/on the phone I could totally understand.

But you literally once a year at Christmas sent some photos of DD to get granny with a note making clear that your DW had no part and still wished no contact. Granny respected that (or maybe she just sulked, IDK) and stayed away.

Just tell your DW that MILs husband got in touch and leave it up to her how she wants to deal.

Like another poster has said, he may have gotten in touch with regardless of your packages in which case you'd still be in the scenario of wondering whether to tell DW.

You and other posters on here are second guessing and catastrophosizing something that might not even be a big deal.

There's another dimension to this unfortunately. You've left yourself open to manipulation by MiL and her husband- and to them stirring things up against you.

There's no way to gloss over it because MiL may use it to cause trouble for her DD.

You're going to have to come clean.

If it were me, I'd do it like this...

Dear wife, I've made a big mistake and need to try and explain. It was done with good intentions, but I've realised it was a very bad idea and don't know how best to fix it. I thought it was the right thing to do to send some photos of DD to her grandma. I've realised that whether it was a good idea or not, I shouldn't have done it without your knowledge. I got confused by my regrets about my dad, and DD having no other grandparents. I absolutely didn't intend to undermine you, but realise that in effect I have.
How can I make it up to you?

Jesus look at the pickle you have created. I won't pile on you, but the answer is quite simple and the emotions that answer will invoke, will be quite unpleasant I imagine but as a decent human being ~You come totally clean to your wife now and explain as best you can why you did that, be honest, don't say our daughter this and that, just own it. You have now presented your wife with a dilemma she never thought she would have to face. I hope to god you didn't present that communication with mil as coming from your wife?

You sound like a very smug man and incredibly patronising, both towards your wife and to posters on here. People will continue to post if they want to - you don't get to dictate.

I'm NC with a toxic sister (all but 1 of my other siblings are likewise NC with this sister) - my husband thinks this is sad because "she's your sister". He's an only child so has an idealised view of sibling relationships. If it ever came to light that he'd been in regular contact with her behind my back, sending her photo packs of our family every Christmas, I could not forgive the betrayal.

Keeping in contact, and keeping your actions a secret are unfathomable to me. It isn't your place and shows a disloyalty and an "I know best" attitude towards your wife, which I've no doubt crops up in other areas of your relationship.

If she forgives you, you should count yourself extremely lucky.

it is up to your wife now and it's not the worst thing anyone has done ever, but please move forward with honesty, that is the very least any human deserves.

I would wonder what your agenda was. And the fact that you clearly took MIL's side by sending those photos.
I wouldn't be able to get past this. Too much deceit

Frangipaniblue, I think if you haven't experienced this sort of relationship with a mother or father- I think this specific person especially, as its complications run deep in areas of safety, security, love, self worth etc that are imperative to healthy childhoods and thus effect you life long, it may well seem over dramatic. "You only get one mum!" Is something others who can't understand often say, and I can understand why if you love your mum and get on well even if she just annoys you at times or has funny quirks but overall loves you etc

Not someone who is by nature supposed to love and nurture you, but instead hurts you deeply, over and over again. They are often a product of their own upbringing as OP recognises in their own posts, but we all make choices. I'm certainly doing a shit tonne better for my kids and don't believe my lack of mother, role model or healthy foundational years excuse me from trying to give myself own children a secure and loving upbringing. It's hard work breaking generational trauma.

Any grown adult knows you never ask others to take sides when you yourself have made a decision to go no contact. You cannot ask that of anyone. But your life partner is different. They are an extention of you and are meant to hold you and show unwavering support when you make a decision to protect yourself from something hurtful. It is about being a united front. By keeping this door open, behind his wife's back, he undermines her decision and on a level this will, in the mother's mind, vindicate her in thinking that whatever she did/does wasn't bad enough to be cut off and that even her dh can see that. It discredits the wife's feelings and at its core, the action of sharing photos of her child- the very person she is trying to save from this nasty woman, is a deep betrayal.

OP, your dd may miss her granny but I can tell you now, my ds hasn't seen my hideous mother since the same age and over a decade on, has no memory of her. I wish I'd never allowed them to meet, but I am glad I was able to be strong enough in the end. I take comfort that she would be unable to recognise any of my children in the street, I'd be beyond heartbroken to find someone had been sending her photos.

This.

You have sent pictures of my child and brought into her narrative. Fuck you, you enabler and you have violated my privacy and that of my child.

Divorce is my only option here - you are a total abuser you disregards my emotions and has put me and my child in danger / contact etc and you are an abuser and I can’t trust you.

You are a flying monkey.

Against the flow, I don’t think this is quite so heinous. You should have told your wife that you were doing it though and definitely need to tell her now.

You deceived your wife and now you want absolution from some random strangers.

FFS.

I'd casually ask her if she'd ever wondered what her mum was doing or how she was, would she want to know if she died or was on her death bed. Then you'll know if she'd appreciate this news or not. If she doesn't care and wouldn't want to know then just put a stop to the whole thing and don't tell her. If she'd want to know then tell her the whole truth.

As others have said, you are nowhere near 100% team wife. Silly little woman doesn’t know her own mind and needs her very clever husband to make better decisions for her. I bet this isn’t the first time you have done something like this. If your DW posted on here she would quite rightly be met with a hailstorm of LTBs because everyone deserves better than this level of “well intentioned” betrayal.

I think you tried to do a nice thing for your daughter but I can't understand why you didn't discuss it with your wife before doing it.
The issue you have with keeping quiet now is that it prolongs the lie, but also if MIL is as nasty as appears she will at some point use this to hurt your wife further, ' well your h at least kept in touch with me even if you couldn't be bothered'. It just validates her opinion of your wife even more (in her own warped mind).

I think you have to sit her down and say 'Ive really fucked up, and say what you have done and why you did it.Be prepared for your wife to be very upset-but then also tell her about the health stuff.

What a mess you've got yourself in to. You must've known sending photos would've come to light at some point and decided it was the right thing to do anyway. You need to take the fall out just on this really and then you might as well share the new information. Her mum sounds horrible but your daughter may in the future wish someone tried to keep a relationship going so on this basis I don't think what you did was all bad but as your wife I'd be furious from my own point of view.

OP - MiL never replied - never did reach out - never apologized. You heard from her husband. And he just tried to revisit the old row! So the situation is actually unchanged.

Like many people I have some Stately Homes-type family relationships and it is an awful minefield.

If you were my friend, I'd say just keep schtum (and stop what you've been doing as clearly it ain't produced a miraculous change in Maladjusted Old Lady). That's going to be least stress for everyone. DW probably won't ever find out. (If she does, come clean 100% immediately and grovel, grovel, grovel). Hopefully DW would just say you were wasting your time and be exasperated rather than betrayed. But if you say nothing then she doesn't have to have a reaction at all, which is how it should be.

I agree some posters being way OTT in responses and projecting. This DW tried to make things work for sale of her child and there was a big row one Christmas at which she decided it was no longer worth the stress. She might even be pleased that DH had kept some contact. The whole point is we are all different, our situations are different and until OP tells his wife, we do not know what her reaction will be.
If they have a solid relationship and she can see his intentions were good, she may be fine and she may not.
The important thing now is that having done this, he needs to fess up and she can decide what happens next.

I’m NC with both my parents, if my husband was secretly sending photos of my children to either of them I would be horrified. You have really got this one wrong.

I think what you’ve done was quite thoughtful, actually - obviously your wife wanted your DD to be able to have that connection to her grandmother. You’ve kept open a line of communication in a very low key way, which will mitigate any future angst that might arise if your wife or DD starts to think “we should’ve tried again/harder/kept in touch” or whatever. Basically, you’ve taken forward preventative action over any guilt they might feel in the future. You offered a way back to MIL, who didn’t take it.

Tell your wife. You don’t need to go into the full backstory right away; just start with “I heard from MIL’s husband and apparently she’s not at all well….”. And take it from there.

And yes I totally agree that if your wife doesn’t get back in touch with her mother it does not mean that her mother’s treatment/opinion of your wife was justified. The total opposite. How dare you judge your wife like that! Some behaviour is past forgiveness, it doesn’t make your wife a bad person if she chooses not to forgive. If anything it shows how awful her mother must have been. Children do not go NC with their parents lightly.

@SiLlyPoint you have to tell her.
Mainly because you can't know that information and not pass it on. Not knowing is one thing but once you do, there's a choice to be made about whether to act on it.

As anyone who is NC will know, there is often a niggling worry about what to do when they're old/sick/dying. Will I feel guilty? Do I want to put things right? Should I see them?

I was NC with a parent that died. I did go to see them, went to the funeral but really wish I hadn't.

I felt pressured to do it and I was very much going through the motions and bowing to expectation on how I should act.

In my case there was no chance of them dying without me knowing as I was in touch with other family.

The second reason you need to tell her is that I think you have a better chance of resolving this if you do it now rather than then having to tell her that her mother is dead after you've denied her the chance to make contact if she wants to.
She may feel angry/sad/relieved and some of that is going to be directed at you.
You cannot hold this information and not share it.

I don't know how your wife would react but I would be horrified and would feel completely betrayed if my partner did this.
It's not your place, not your decision, not your family.
I'd feel that you'd been colluding, judging me and my choice to be NC in the first place. Did you really support me?

Be honest, be genuine, if she's angry and hurt then take it and give her time.
Don't be defensive. Your reasons may have been genuine but that probably won't matter, at least initially.

I think what you’ve done was quite thoughtful, actually - obviously your wife wanted your DD to be able to have that connection to her grandmother.

Ridiculous comment. If it was so "obvious" why the need to do it in secret?

I'd divorce my husband if he betrayed me as you have betrayed DW, what in the world made you thing going behind her back and colluding with her DM was a good idea?

Very well written.

It might be that your wife doesn't feel angry and betrayed and I really hope she doesn't but you need to be aware how others in the same position would feel.

How dare you do this to your wife? Absolutely outrageous behaviour.