Ex husband's new wife, trouble in paradise, my children

[millymog11]

Has anyone had this or similar situation and how did you handle it ref: your children with your ex husband?
Ex husband cheated on me with a work colleague 15 years his junior (and about 17 years my junior as I am a year or two older than him). This was about 8 years ago. When confronted he did not bother to admit or deny, nor enter into any conversation, he just said "I will move out". He moved out about 2 weeks later. Our kids were aged 4 and 5.
Fast forward 8 years, in the interim; very acrimonious divorce, he introduced our kids to this work colleague pretty promptly. Ex continued to see our kids. Ex romanced this colleague like I have never known, divorce basically cost us everything of the marriage of 15 years, once divorce done, he married this colleague, they live about 2 hours drive away near her mum.
They then had a child (even tho my ex told me quite regularly he did not like children and regretted having our two children). Their child is now about 3.
My kids see my ex husband, his new wife and their half sibling alternate weekends etc. My ex and I basically never communicate about anything. He tells me when he wants our kids (no negotiation) and that is the total of it.
So the reason for the post. I am not exactly sure what is going on as i literally only have hearsay from my kids, but they came back from the last weekend and said that they tried to watch the football on Saturday night but could not watch it and ended up giving up watching it because my ex husband and his new wife had the most almighty row which went on for "all of the evening" (according to my 14 year old). Door slamming, my ex locking himself in some bedroom alone for a while which his wife eventually got into to continue this discussion, lots of accusations by my ex husband to my children's step mum about her cheating.

My daughter said she tried to listen to it because she was scared the baby (the 3 year old would wake up and the baby did indeed wake up) would be disturbed and my daughter does a lot of the looking after of the baby for some reason. She said her step mum denied the cheating thing but started to get sarcastic. They have always said that she does a lot of stuff on her own without my ex husband (socialising etc) and is not very keen on looking after the baby.

Anyway ex husband acted like nothing had happened around my kids on Sunday morning. Both came home quite distressed sunday night and my daughter asked me about divorce. :(.
As I don't talk to my ex husband at all how should I support my kids in this? I really have no idea what is going to happen. Ex husband comes from a family where adultery and multiple concurrent and subsequent partners are normal so I am wondering (hoping) that he says with her even if she is cheating so my kids at least get the stability of that. Any advice much appreciated.

I would contact him explain the childrens thoughts and tell him they don’t want to go until the issues are resolved. He may try and play it down and put it back on you. It’s a shame the children didn’t contact you at the time.

As a general rule they don't take their phones to his house because when they did that before, my Ex demands to see them and go thorough them because if my son gets a notification on his phone my Ex asks him if it is porn (he is 12) and if my daughter gets a notification my Ex asks her if she is talking to a boy. I do not routinely check my childrens phones as we have the maximum level of internet safety on my wifi package so there are lots of things they won't get (even if they wanted it) and I think I would just know if my daughter was talking exclusively to a boy. Anyway the children themselves decided to stop taking their phones to their Dads because they don't like the way he asks to check them (several times usually) during the weekend they are there. A lot of my last 8 years has been on trust and if he brings them home at the end of his weekend i am happy

Not quiet sure what you want from this post.
You've ignored a lot of excellent advice.
I used to think kids should see their dad - didn't want ti be the bad guy, but one day your kids will turn round and ask why you let them go.
They will get to the age as adults and see what a dysfunctional set up they had at dads.
It will happen
If you're lucky you may not lose them.
Some mums aren't that lucky.
If they don't want to go - Support them.
Reassure them its absolutely ok to say No to seeing their dad. Ok to saying no to any man or woman who is abusive or dysfunctional.
Stop hiding behind your kids.
You. Are. Stronger. Than. You. Think.

At 13 and 14 they are old enough to make their own decision as to whether to have regular contact with their parent or not. If he went to court over it and the kids said they didn't want to go to his, he wouldn't be awarded any contact.

I agree it is important for kids to have contact with both parents (generally speaking), but at their ages you shouldn't really be telling them 'they have to go'. They might look back on it and feel like you forced them into going there.

Since you're so estranged (how do you never have significant parental matters to discuss?) I'm not sure how you're supposed to tell ex that the kids don't want to go. Gut feeling is to start by telling the kids to have that conversation with him themselves to start with (by phone, and well before they're due to go there next, don't leave it until right before).

If they do go there again get them a burner phone to take - a cheap £10 payg thing that they don't use for anything else so there's nothing for him to look through on there.

Please listen to your daughter. If she doesn't want to go she is old enough to decide for herself. I made that decision at 14, thank god my mum supported me and didn't make me go! I was then able to have a grown up relationship with my dad when I was mature enough to set my own strong boundaries with him (he was controlling). Please give your daughter the chance to do the same.

I think that there comes a time where you should bite the bullet and inform your ex in advance of him setting off to pick them up that they don't want to go that particular weekend. You don't have to say why (he can work that out himself).
You are putting too much pressure on them by leaving them to tell him last minute. I don't think it is reasonable of you to put them into that kind of quandary and have to make a decision while he's outside the door. If you can't see how your refusal to communicate for them is affecting them then you have tunnel vision of no contact at the expense of their emotional wellbeing.
If she tells you before the weekend she doesn't want to go, you can't just let him turn up and make her have to deal with it.
You and your ex are just putting your DD in an awkward, uncomfortable middle position by that, which is not fair to her and traumatic. Email him, it's the right thing to do.

OP do any of your children have a disability that affects their maturity?

If not then then why are you scared of being dragged back to Court when the Court will want to and actually speak to the children themselves?

Contact is for the children to spend time with their dad.

If at secondary age, but particularly after the age of 14, they don't want to see him as scheduled when they were 5 they can't be forced.

My DP has had it and so have a few other separated parents we know who ended up in Court over contact.

What is interesting is the majority of those children who were left to choose to see their parent after a few months actually decided to see them but on their terms. So by the time your ex would have put in Court papers, due to the backlog in the Courts, he would likely be seeing the children again if he doesn't fight with you and them over contact.

If he decides to fight, then due to the age of your daughter if there is no SEN no judge would be making her go see him at all let alone how he wants.

If your son comes across as mature in his decision then a similar decision will be made for him.

And yes please get them a dumb phone that they can take to their dads to contact you on if they need to escape his household.

so he removes their phone and accuses them.of watching porn,expects daughter to potty train 3 yr old , screams and fights all night with his wife and leaves your kids upset. He is damaging your kids who.he cares nothing about basically and just wants to exercuse control over them as a means to wind you up.
For goodness sake stop sending them. it is v simple ! You are the adult here so it us up.to.you to step.in and protect them. Let him go to court. No judge will make them at their ages and he could be in trouble with social services if the details come out.

I'm not sure you'll listen, but maybe another voice to say - you need to protect your dc

If they don't want to go - don't make them.
If ex kicks off tell him to take you to court
If he takes you to court represent yourself
Your dc will have a say in court now they are at a certain age
No judge will make them see him if they don't want to

You say your dd needs to make the choice herself. She already has, she's told you she doesn't want to go.

If your dd had an issue with a boy or man harassing her, would you make her deal with it herself? Of course not, so why are you leaving her to deal with a grown man on her own. Doesn't matter if it's her father or not. She's a child and you need to step in

OP
youve been treated unfairly here
this is 100% on your ex here
who sounds like an utter utter cunt btw

the conditions whilst not ideal are not illegal , and are sadly common in many households

but reading he won’t let two teens have their phones shocked me ! who does that ?
I agree to get them a burner Nokia they can pack away

id also say they are at the age where they have agency and can make decisions

id also say reading about his character - maybe the new woman will leave him - so be ready for that happening and the change that will bring

totally understand you don’t want to speak to him . That’s what Soliciters are for

Your children need more support from you in terms of telling their dad if they don't want to see him. It's a huge ask telling them they will need to tell him themselves and to be honest, I can imagine they would end up resenting you for this. They're still young and that is a brutal conversation to have and it sounds as though their dad has guilted them into seeing him anyway. This where you need to step in and be the messenger here. I can understand everything you're saying and I don't think I'd engage beyond telling him that they don't want to see him - and you're not going to make them.

Thanks all and I do in fact take on board what you are saying.
Their Dad it seems was world authority on how to do a divorce with young children, the aggression and the guilt about me "withholding his children from him" started by email the day after he moved out of the house. No excuse but the background to that would cover chapters and chapters. Even down to missed phone calls due to lack of phone coverage in the village we live in resulting in barrage of "you are deliberately withholding my children from me" emails into the night.
So I want both of my children to see their Dad for the person he is, without my intervention. A bully, a cheat, tells lies, goes through multiple relationships, and I would not be surprised if he leaves his current wife for someone else and has a child with them in short order.

I never wanted that for my son or daughter but that is what he has done.

For the avoidance of any doubt, if either of my children said to me categorically on a friday night when he comes to collect them "I'm not going" there is zero way I would in any way make them go. But I am not entering into the "you had a fight with your wife which both of my children were upset about" email.

Question. If married couples/couples who are together are allowed to have fights which are upsetting to children / teenagers and the advice is "well all relationships involve fights now and again" then why is it my obligation as a single mother who has no idea whatsoever what really goes on in my ex husbands house apart from what my children tell me to protect them from what people on here would otherwise explain as a normal fight in a normal relationship?
Because my daughter reports accusations of cheating does that then somehow oblige me to step in? What if the accusations are not true? What if my ex husband decides to continue to be married to his new wife even if she is cheating on him? What exactly can I do if my ex husbands new wife and my ex husband do not want to wait with their child whilst he is potty trained but my 14 year old reports feeling obliged to do that (because she feels sorry for her half sibling)? What can I do if my kids now experience a second separation / divorce and new relationships as a result of ex husbands/new wifes moving onto someone new?
Call me a coward all you like. I am going on what my children comment on to me when they get home and if I bring it up with my ex husband he will without any doubt at all thump back with all of the aggression and resources he has, tell me I am telling lies, tell me I am saying it to turn our children against me and then demand to know why my daughter has told me this when she is next at his house.
Nope, the day will come when they both refuse to go to the door on a friday night when he comes to collect them. I will not open the door nor will I encourage them to go. They can tell him themselves how much they hated spending those weekends with him.

It's very difficult to change how we interact with our exdh, even after years of divorce. I find it easier if I take the emotion out and only answer questions directly about the dc. Statements such as:

You're withholding the dc from me. You're damaging the dc by not letting them spend time with me - these used to automatically have me defending my actions. But now I just ignore them you're withholding the dc from me isn't a question it's a statement - no response needed. you're damaging the dc by not letting them see me is a statement - no response needed does dd1 need extra help with maths as she's falling behind is a direct AND RELEVANT question about the dc - I'll respond. why does dd not want to come to my house a relevant question which I will give him the facts on. dd witnessed your argument with your dw and doesn't feel safe/you scared her is all that's needed, it then gives him the opportunity to discuss this WITH YOU AND YOUR DD to resolve the issue. If he kicks off and tells you it's none of your business and that dd will be coming over - don't respond it's a statement and no question. If he then sends another message saying you've not responded - tell him that his email didn't illicit a response as there was no question. When it comes round to visit time, go out with your dd and leave a friend at home with your ds to do hand over.

It's all about removing the emotion out. You don't need to justify yourself or your actions to him any longer.

You asked for advice I gave you advice.
don’t ask for advice if you have already made your mind up and have already refused to get involved

I speak at a victim of serious DV and ongoing court cases (9) with an abusive and wealthy prick whilst I was ground down in the dust. I fought and sometimes without a solicitor as I couldn’t afford it.

but I never ever allowed my child or children to ‘sort it themselves’ or deal with the fall out themselves - that’s abuse right there - I fought for them when I had no means to fight.

He wanted me to give him full custody etc

but I would never tell a 14 year old - you deal with it. A child dealing with an abusive parent needs support not a parent that enables that abuse.

"dd witnessed your argument with your dw and doesn't feel safe/you scared her is all that's needed, it then gives him the opportunity to discuss this WITH YOU AND YOUR DD to resolve the issue"

The above statement involves a value judgement about what is and what is not acceptable for my daughter to witness/experience. It involves me saying that my ex husband fighting with his new wife and accusations of cheating resulted in fear in my daughter.
My ex husband will not "discuss this WITH YOU AND YOUR DD to resolve the issue"
He will talk to my daughter on the phone on his allocated times per week and demand to know from her "why she is scared".
The only real change will come when my children take me up on the statement I have made to them multiple times that they literally do not have to leave the house if they do not want to when he comes to collect them.

I get what you are saying liarliarshortsonfire · Today 12:01 about questions only and that makes a great deal of sense to me but I think we got beyond that situation many moons ago.
It also does not answer my question to all previous posters about why it is acceptable for children of couples who are together to be scared when their children fight / cheat on each other but that it is beholden unto me to enter the fray on what can only be incredibly emotive subjects (cheating/ breakdown of my exH current marriage) when the fall out from me raising it with my exH will land on my children as much as it lands on me, i.e I exacerbate the outcome for my kids.
They literally tell me to make no noise in our house whilst they are on the phone to him because he pulls faces if he detects i am in the house whilst he has his phone calls with them.
He has always been like this and most especially like this when he left us. (his parents had a very acrimonious divorce when he was a child and it feels like he knows how fathers should do this stuff).
I feel like i want to report on this thread that i never cheated during our marriage, ive no idea why i feel defensive and feel the need to say that, but it is true, in other moments I feel like the fact I never cheated on him makes me the biggest doormat on the planet, but there you go.

"You asked for advice I gave you advice."

InSummertime · Today 12:11 thank you for your advice which I accept and appreciate and am genuinely grateful you took the time to post.

Could you give me advice on why I have to make value judgements from a distance/based on what I am told on my ex husbands fights with his new wife where children of couples who are together are told that all couples fight sometime and that is all normal?

My above post is meant to say "to be scared when their parents or care givers fight / cheat on each other" not "to be scared when their children fight / cheat on each other" of course.
Apologies

OP, have you directly asked your children what they want you to do? It's possible that they are just venting to you, but also possible that they are desperately hoping you will step in and help.
If they are waiting for you to step in, then you are setting yourself up for a lifetime of resentment from them if you don't. At the very least, I would be finding out about support services for them, so they can talk about what must be a very stressful situation. Speak to their school guidance counsellors, their GP, anyone you can get to listen to you really. Two things should happen; at least one person should be able to refer your children, and a record will be made of your concerns. Also (and most obviously) your children might end up getting vital support.

Your kids aren't little anymore OP.
They're 12 and 14! If they express to you that they don't want to go to their dad's anymore then you tell your ex just that and that's it.

So he will call and demand answers from her that's an easy one

Speakerphone your listening flash cards at the ready

You were shouting I dont like hearing that

You woke the baby up I shouldn't have to deal with that

I dont feel comfortable in your house

I'm uncomfortable listening to adults
argue

That's not what happened

Thats not how I remember it

I would like to see you WITHOUT the bad atmosphere

Yes I want to see you but not while there is tension

Don't say its on speakerphone dont say a word film it if you like because I guarantee he will twist it later

My children have told me when ex fought with his wife.

What they are fighting about is irrelevant. Even if it was a completely different topic like money, it doesn't stop it being inappropriate or scary for the kids.

Personally I would send oldest with a dumb PAYG phone so she can text you in an emergency. The charge on them last weeks and if she keeps it turned off then her dad wouldn't need to know she has it. You need some sort of conversation about what to do if things escalate. In my case I looked at his house location on Google map and we came up with a plan for emergencies. It's never been needed but it would take me an hour to get there and a lot can happen in an hour. The children were never in direct danger but obviously I wouldn't know what they were witnessing. I have 3 kids with him and 3 are now NC. The only one who sees him doesn't remember but knows what happened as his siblings have told him.

It sounds very sad that your kids seem to be following in your footsteps and prioritising not angering dad over their own feelings. He knows that accusing you of withholding the kids is how can get you to accept his terrible behaviour and I bet that he has some tricks to keep your kids in line too. A judge wouldn't make them see their dad and would hopefully be appalled that your oldest is being used to potty train the 3yo etc

Have you ever explicitly said to the children that going to Dads is their choice and if they don't want to go, they don't have to? I just wonder whether they are waiting for "permission " from you to stop going, or go less often, or whatever. It may be that they've both internalised that message from you that 'you don't fight dad', so they don't realise they can stop going.

We’ve had the same situation with DH’s ex wife and her new partner. Teen children return to us in tears after arguments at the other house. They are often reluctant to talk about it.
DH has ensured that both children know they can speak to us about anything, they can come to us at anytime, contact us and we will pick them up.
We have also ensured that they understand that we do not want to know the ins and outs of what goes on at the other house, but that we need to know that they are SAFE and cared for while there and if they don’t feel safe they need to tell us and we will help.
DH and ex are non contact but he would absolutely take things up with her if needed. It’s hard to witness the children going through it, but we hope to model good, loving relationships at our home and help them understand that anything else is not normal.

PonyPatter44 · Today 13:04 in answer yes I regularly tell them they don't have to go. I encourage my daughter to raise with her Dad for example if she is invited to a party (she has to be able to "prove" it to him by email apparently) on his weekend she should say she wants to stay here with me instead. Reluctantly he has agreed to this although he often raises the inconvenience if he was at work and calling into collect no longer suits him (i.e. he will use his own travel arrangements to say why he wont agree to this).
I am hoping this is a pattern they both adopt as time goes on - i.e. they tell him their social life here and he has to fit round it. They don't have any social life as such or friends at his. He gets his wife to do "teenage" type activities where it suits him with my kids as she is so much younger but otherwise they more or less just do whatever he wants (or until now whatever the new wife wants to do / spend time doing) on the weekends they are there

So yes I regularly say to them things like "you will always have your bedroom here with me even when you are grown up, you can always stay here" but at the moment they are intimidated by him.
Ultimately I suspect they will hate him, he does absolutely expect them to fit round him and he has never ever done the day to day stuff eg school runs but they would never expect anything like that from him anyway