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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Am I being catfished/used? Or is this just bog standard shitty dating after divorce?

115 replies

monomonopolytime · 10/12/2022 22:58

Started seeing a new guy in September. Have known him for two years through work (he doesn't work at my workplace but is the CEO of a small event business, which is a partner of the company I work at.) We are the same age (42), both divorced with similar age DC. He pursued me for a long time - calling, texting, emailing, asking to meet up, inviting me to events. When I did not show a lot of interest as I was getting over my divorce, it went quiet for a bit and then he'd start up again.

When I finally agreed to go for dinner with him this September he presented to me what I can only describe as a proposal for a second marriage. Obviously caveated with the fact that he knew we were not in a relationship, it would take a while, we should both take our time, but we had both been hurt before and he thought we shared the same values and enjoyed the same things (he name dropped a few things he knew I liked and said he had observed these about me in the years we'd been working on this event together.) He basically described my ideal life to me, and said it was his too. That he knew we couldn't guarantee the future, but would I start getting to know him so that we could - if it worked out- possibly try and start building a life together? It felt like he had observed me from afar and plucked me out of obscurity as a "chosen" special person.

Honestly, after years of emotional pain, this was everything I wanted to hear. He then caveated it again by saying that he was divorced but still living in the marital home but had bought a house that he would be moving into in February, which would make us more free to be together and spend time together.

The first month was filled with a lot of talking from both sides, almost like counselling each other over our failed marriages and talking about our children and work and negotiating around our dreams and plans. Like where we wanted to live, what we wanted to do... We spent hours on the phone and tried to see each other whenever possible - in lunchbreaks, in evenings where we'd go for dinner. I was still very hesitant and not much physical was happening apart from kissing. He would text me good morning and tell me I was the first thing he thought about when he woke, and then also good night.

I am in a role in my company of being able to give him a lot of lucrative (for him) client introductions. This was also a partial- focus of our conversation at the beginning: he would suggest I intro'd him to A or B client. We used to laugh that he was "using" me "for sex and clients" because at the time it seemed so far from the truth. It became an in joke between us. He'd invested so much time and detailed interest in me personally over time, that I couldn't possibly believe this would be what he wanted, so I did recommend him and make a couple of intros for him to people who I believed would be very helpful to him. Another thing to note is that I earn more money than him. He is a small business owner partner to our company, and I work for an international corporate. This means I get paid more (quite a significant amount more) and have my own house and a lot of independent wealth (due to hard work.)

Our companies put on our annual event at the end of October/beginning of November in New York and we spent a week there together. Despite having two hotel rooms we shared the same hotel room for the week. While we were incredibly emotionally close, talking all night sometimes, and sleeping naked in each other's arms, the sex was surprisingly perfunctory on his side: more of a means to an end rather than the end itself (a bit like eating dinner because you need to fill your stomach, not because you want to savour the taste of something new and nice.) I remember it surprised me at the time, but there was so much emotional connection surrounding it that it didn't seem to matter. He didn't dwell on it or talk about it and if I started a conversation about sex he would clam up, tell me he had "issues" (referring to how awful his divorce had been/his ExW had lost interest in him and sex) and change the subject, simply saying he very much enjoyed it and loved being with me and we would work on it (ie him opening up sexually) as we spent more time together.

The next couple of weeks after this, we were both very busy with work, but I still expected the momentum of New York to hold. Not the frequency of being in each other's company, but I thought we had established a cadence of contact and knew each other better and had something to build on, I felt more sure we were compatible and we could start the relationship properly. Due to how busy we were, contact levels went down and I started to feel insecure. I expressed this to him and he said it was all fine, that we were getting to know each other, November was a particularly busy month for him, and everything would change when he moved into his new place in February. The next time we saw each other we went out for dinner and had the same perfunctory sex afterwards.

We exchanged messages where he said he would call and twice he did not call. I left it. Just to mention, I have never initiated contact with him, he has always contacted me and initiated meet ups and spending time together - and I have let this happen because he has the most challenging living situation around sharing the house with his ExW and contact with DC etc. I don't know if he resents always having to initiate.

When he got back in touch over whatsapp after a couple of days citing various domestic disasters/ DC issues, I told him that he was aware of my situation and how I'd been hurt by divorce, that I was feeling like his actions weren't matching his words and I needed some time to think and maybe it would be better if we revisit everything in February when he moves out and clears his own head. He fought this but we then had a two week period where I was getting my head together and unresponsive to him and he embarked on another campaign to "win" me back. His reasoning being that: he KNEW that November would be a terrible month in terms of DC/work and that he told me he would have very little time (much less than in the initial wooing period) and I had responded how he feared. That I needed to "think longterm, not short-term" about our relationship and imagine it as planning the second stage of our lives. He even enlisted the help of his colleague and my colleague (who did not know about our relationship until then) to get back in touch with me and convince me to give him another chance.

Given the public declaration and ceremony, I did give him another chance, and met up with him again for dinner on Thursday just gone. We had dinner and the same perfunctory sex and I have only had an emoji since then (a heart). Nothing in the last 48 hours. No more "morning" and "night" texts. When I spoke to him over dinner on Thursday evening, his main reasons why I should re-engage were:

  • He wants a longterm partnership/relationship with me and I have to do my best to not be put off by the short term headwinds (in the form of his domestic situation and "general uselessness" - his words) and hold on until February.
  • That he is not a very social person. That he doesn't like to see many people and keeps his circle close. That whenever he is not with me, he is just with his DC or close friends. He is not in any way "in the market" dating . The situation with me is unique because he saw a small chink of light where we were both single and he wanted to see if we could make something work
  • That he is about to do a business deal that will make him "millions" of pounds and when that is over he will be more available

Reading this all back, it sounds ridiculous and very dodgy, but in person I'm sure you understand he appears extremely genuine and believeable. His job and company are legitimate and established, I have worked with them for years, I know his colleagues who vouch for him, he is a very public leader within the industry we both work in. There is a lot of info about him online.

I am feeling a sense of shame that I opened myself up like this after I had made my situation so clear and had spent two years refusing his advances. I don't understand why he doesn't feel this too? Isn't it embarrassing to go to all that trouble only to be perceived as not putting your money where your mouth is? I am finding it hard to believe he went to the extent of enlisting our colleagues (and therefore making our involvement public) to re-engage me into the relationship, but is still acting the same.

Why would anyone do this?

I'm trying to think back over red flags and there were many.

  • he used to constantly repeat stories he'd already told me and we had already discussed, word for word. When I used to remind him we'd already had exactly the same conversation he used to blame it on tiredness and overwork. Occasionally he used to tell me stories I had previously told him, like an anecdote. Like he "knew someone who had X experience" when it was actually me who had, had the experience and had told him that
  • after previously agreeing and arranging (childcare) to stay the night with him twice in hotels he had booked, during those evenings or when I arrived with my overnight bag he would say "what time do you have to leave this evening?" or "what time does your nanny have to go tonight?"

What is your diagnosis?

OP posts:
minticecreamisjustok · 11/12/2022 07:41

Lots of things would make me run, he wants to build a life with you yet he isn't even in a proper relationship with you yet.

Not moved out of marital home, I wouldn't trust this for sure until he had.

Actions not matching with words, not calling when he says he will, he's already being flaky, again I wouldn't take him seriously.

Zanatdy · 11/12/2022 07:43

Usually in these situations women stay as the sex is so good. But it’s not. Tell him to come back again in February and take your time to think about what you want. This is classic love bombing

TheYummyPatler · 11/12/2022 07:54

I got as far as him still living with his wife and needed no more information. Especially after the weird second date marriage and life pitch (dragon’s den style).

I think you might not be ready for dating if you’re not immediately recoiling at this stuff. Do some work to help you to have proper standards and reject people long before you’ve got grifters claiming million pound business deals in your life.

I do mean that kindly. I know I started dating far too soon after a break up and I set my standards far too low, then accepted less. I was too easily taken in by hope that I didn’t look at the reality.

You know that you deserve much better than any of this.

cut him out and, if your colleagues ask about him, just say he’s a manipulative fantasist. Because he is.

Longlongtime · 11/12/2022 08:16

Don’t trust him. I think this will all come back to bite you if you do.

MumUndone · 11/12/2022 08:17

Way too much like hard work.

ilikethatname · 11/12/2022 08:28

He’s toxic and manipulative. And very very selfish of course…

I think he’s used you partly for work contacts and loves the sound of his own voice / bollocks.

I would try and separate myself from him at work. He’s a supplier - so use a different company whoever possible.

Hoping you can cut yourself off completely in your personal life.

rainbowstardrops · 11/12/2022 08:32

The re-telling stories that you've already told him, was enough for me to think Hmm
He's either still in a relationship with his wife or he's got other women on the go because he's forgetting who said what to whom.

He also sounds way too intense with all the future marriage and plans etc.

Someone up thread said he sounds like a good salesman and I think that's pretty spot on. He's selling you a pitch. I'd take a breather.

Bedazzled22 · 11/12/2022 08:35

He just sounds a fake. Love bombing you isnt he with visions of a wonderful future.

im not convinced he is not still with his wife

better for you to move on you can do much better i think

Staggersaurus · 11/12/2022 08:39

Regardless of all the other stuff, this bit stuck out for me.

Every time I talk to him about it he says it’s because I am thinking short term as opposed to long term

This is such bullish!t. You build things short term into something long term, not the other way round. He’s just feeding you what you want to hear, with no substance to back it up. It’s a sales pitch to keep you keen. Sorry.

Cherryana · 11/12/2022 08:47

I don’t think it’s meant to be as hard as you have described.

Also, the future is not some abstract thing where it all comes good, it is the culmination of your choices today. You want a secure, happy, partnership with someone in the future- it starts with spending time with someone with integrity today, and binning off those who don’t display those traits.

PermanentTemporary · 11/12/2022 08:50

What Christmasnero said.

  1. You are an INCREDIBLE catch. You aren't damaged or difficult. You're a woman with some life experience who's open to good things.
  1. You don't need anyone at this stage in your life. You are absolutely sorted in all the practical terms. Therefore you should be looking for top levels of fun, connection, compatibility, enjoyment, sex. That goes for the short term and the long term (frankly, his definition of the short term and the long term doesn't have to be yours. Two months of your time is something extremely precious).
  1. This isn't enjoyable. It's hard work, mediocre sexually, vaguely creepy (getting his friends to lobby for him? How freaking weird is that? Don't they have any selfrespect?) And it's been going on for 2 (count them) months! It's barely more than a couple of dates!

I'd just go off and date other people. By all means tell him you're doing it. To me the biggest No of all is the sex. At this stage you should be either unable to get your hands off each other, or still in the delicious knee trembling seduction phase. Have more fun! Make the present fantastic and let the future take care if itself.

Sunrisewatcher · 11/12/2022 08:52

Good god it's the sheer deviousness of these predatory f#£&wits that astound me.

I think we're all looking for the fairy tale, it rarely comes true and with psychopaths like him around it's hardly surprising.
You sound very intelligent... I'm not half the woman you are but I'm grateful that I had the resilience to twice break free from the clutches of men like him.
No more deliberations necessary.

Delete, block and get him out of your life forever!

jtaeapa · 11/12/2022 08:55

I don’t like the sound of the fact that he chased you for 2 years whilst you said no. It’s stalkerish and obsessively persistent. How can he have been chasing you for 2 years if he’s still living with his wife? Have they been “separated” for 2+ years but still live together (doubtful). And he came on ridiculously strong talking about marriage at the first date/s.

anyway, I think you should get rid, but don’t go into all the reasons - so that he can’t talk out of it and because they are not up for debate. Just say it is not working for you.

Sandia1 · 11/12/2022 09:00

Please listen to this great advice from other people. If you are even asking the question on here ('Am I being catfish?'), trust your intuition, because it appears you most certainly are. Actions speak louder than words. I'm divorced, in my 50s, been with a guy I met online for over 2 years. He's admittedly a slow burner, we don't talk about the future beyond a few months. I know for a fact he doesn't want to live with anyone until his teenagers leave home. I have teenagers too and I can't imagine us all shacking up together, it would just be too complicated. BUT, he makes me feel a million dollars, we message a lot, we go on lovely dates and trips away, he's good fun and makes an effort with my children and friends, I feel the love between us, the sex is great. This is all I need. He could be saying 'In 5 years we'll get married' but what's the point? Nothing is certain in life and you need to think how this man is acting right now. Run away, there are better men out there, for sure.

devildeepbluesea · 11/12/2022 09:06

This mythical future ain’t never going to happen.

This is way too much like hard work anyway. I don’t know how you’ve got the energy for all that bollocks.

whoknowswhyanyonedoesanything · 11/12/2022 09:07

Hi OP

The perfunctory sex sounds depressing - at the beginning, when most people are more 'mad for it' then at any other time in a relationship.

You've written a long and articulate account but the fact you've had to do it and it's so convoluted is a bad sign I think - yes we have to work at relationships but not so early on and not when they don't fully exist yet. He's talking about and idealising the future but causing you angst in the present, there's no evidence that will change. Also it sounds a bit like he's negotiating a business deal.

You are successful in your career, financially secure and have a full life. This is a big deal actually and a great achievement in a woman's life, (I wish I had paid better attention to that myself). Maybe the story he's telling seems like a relief after the pain of divorce...but I think potentially you have so much to lose to what is basically a future fantasy.

HaggisBurger · 11/12/2022 09:09

monomonopolytime · 11/12/2022 00:21

The picture he paints of the future is attractive to me, but the reality of day to day life right now doing whatever this is, creates painful feelings of insecurity and uncertainty.

i don’t know how I have the two so confused in my mind. Every time I talk to him about it he says it’s because I am thinking short term as opposed to long term. And that he has always given me the date of February as the time he would be free. But if that was so clear to me (which I don’t think it was) why did he and is he insisting on engaging me so intensely now?

He is a fantasist. NOTHING will be different in Feb even if he does move out. Certainly not the perfunctory sex.

He’s gas lighting you when you raise issues with this short / long term business.

RUN like the fucking wind!

note - how he is lining something up straight from the marital home exit. He’s a user and future faker. Honestly don’t be sucked in again.

DropOfffArtiste · 11/12/2022 09:10

He's clearly still married. Ditch him, obviously, but be very wary. He's spent a lot of time researching you and seems very manipulative so he might turn very unpleasant when you derail his plans with your own opinions.

VahineNuiWentHome · 11/12/2022 09:21

God he is creepy!

It looks like has been stalking you for months before actually have a ‘date’ with you.
He is still living with his ex (big red flag)
Love bombing

Step back. He is trouble.

MrJollyLivesNextDoor · 11/12/2022 09:26

Tell him to go away until he's divorced, and then when he is divorced to not contact you then either thanks very much!

My goodness you can do better than this.

And you will, you sound fab.

ShellsOnTheBeach · 11/12/2022 09:29

You don't actually love him, do you...

Reading your OP, the red flags were jumping out all over.

And this thing about February, when everything will supposedly change and it will all fall into place because at that point he'll be free to truly commit to you and your wonderful future life together 🙀

When he first started his campaign to trap you, February was very convenient. Sufficiently far away to enable him to be vague, but close enough for you to see it as real enough to mark your calendar.

You are an intelligent, independent woman - you know what to do.

PatriciaPattersonGimlin · 11/12/2022 09:40

You need to accept that he was after the contacts and nothing more. Once that realisation dawns, all the rest will be explained too.

He literally has played you from the outset for how useful you can be to him. You are nice so probably cannot grasp this.

Years ago I had a DP and there were red flags flying, just as you describe. I spent my time with him in utter confusion. It took me ages to realise that everything he did was self serving and I mean literally everything he did in his life. He broke the law, he broke all rules of decent behaviour towards his fellow man and eventually I 'saw' him and that came as a shock.

I'm older now and I can spot them a mile off but he was my 'training ground'.

This guy has laid all the ground, set you up and taken you in. Walk away before you are tainted by association.

PatriciaPattersonGimlin · 11/12/2022 09:42

Oh and come February. There will be a family crisis that stops him moving out.

He is married. He remains married. He is not going to change that.

chevvyroo · 11/12/2022 09:51

Your last 2 bullet points were the biggest red flags.

If the sex is crap to begin with, it won't get any better.

Move on and be kind to yourself.

Dotcheck · 11/12/2022 09:52

I’m not sure I got the whole post, but it sounds like you were not ready ( at best) and co dependant ( at worst).

He is either 1) not ready/ co dependant 2) still married 3) using you

None of those things are healthy- from with side.

Take some time, get over your divorce, and only date men who you are attracted to, and who exhibit healthy boundaries themselves.

Someone chasing you for months, and you caving is not a healthy dynamic- no matter what the rom coms say

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