My husband says to use him and it doesn't matter that I don't love him

[IfOnlyLifeCameWithAManual]

Our marriage hasn't been the best over the last five years. For three years after our dd5 was born there was no intimacy, and now it infrequent. There's been arguing on and off over the years that hit a peak in March where he punched a wall.

Since then my husband and I have both reined in our arguing and we've attended marriage counselling. I can see he's trying his hardest and I like to think I am too, following the advice of the counsellor in terms of date nights, focussing on why we got together etc. The marriage counsellor kept saying in each session that my husband loved me and worshipped the ground I walk on and I need to value his worth. That my inability to be sure about staying married was causing him anxiety which was coming out at anger. I ended up ending the counselling because it just kept making me feel frustrated and upset.

I just don't love him. And I'm filled with dread when I imagine spending the rest of my life with him. I didn't feel this way 11 years ago when we married.

My husband says we can get it back. I've told him I'm not in love with him. I suggested we nest and coparent to reduce the impact of splitting on the children. But my husband says we can get it back, we can fall in love again and he doesn't care if I use him in the meantime as a partner. He also pointed out,and as I keep reading on forums here, the impact of divorce would be massive for our children and I can't support them on my own as I'm a sahm with, I'm rapidly finding out, few job prospects. I will miss my children massively if we split, every birthday and Christmas. I can't imagine telling them were splitting. I know they won't have as good a quality of life if we split.

Can we get it back? Do I just keep on holding out and doing the date nights/flicking through photo albums? I've tried the saying something to be grateful for him each day.

OP, some of what you say rings very true for my former situation. I stayed. My kids, now in their older teens, wish I hadn't, or at least have wished that I hadn't, but then they've only known how things went.
I would echo what @ScrollingLeaves said, and also that you definitely need to get 1:1 counselling for your own issues, and so that you can work out what it is that you want. I'm now out of my marriage but feel like I put my own wants/needs/personality 'away' for so many years that I'm not sure how to get it back. I'm trying, but honestly, I do wish I'd divorced years ago.
Your DH also needs to get his own therapy for his mental health issues. As long as he's dependent on you, you will feely guilty about anything you feel which isn't supportive of him. I know this very, very well. My ex's issues were different, but at the moment he can say 'if only IfOnlyLIfe loved me more, I wouldn't be depressed' or 'once IfOnlyLIfe loves me again, I'll get better'. Neither of these things is true.
Finally, sort out your work situation. Find a way to work so that you can be independent if that's what you need. You'll both be better parents if you're happy and separate than together and unhappy. .

So I tend to ask just one question.

If he died tomorrow how would you feel?

The answer will tell you if you've become numb and therefore don't love him or if yiu really don't love him.

Really think and feel how his death would affect you.

I felt like this about my hubby. He died completely unexpectedly and I was devastated. 6 years on I miss him and have not bothered seeking a new partner. I realised after he died that he was in fact my soul mate and it was just years of kids/work/crap that made me feel numb.

Good luck OP. Its a very tough position to be in.

Is there a way back? No one can answer that for you. That's such an individual decision with a myriad of reasons, feelings, and needs. What might work for me might be a horrible path to take for you.

If someone has truly fallen out of love, can you fall back in? No, I don't believe so. Falling out of love with someone usually means that something has happened that has broken your trust or damaged the relationship beyond repair. Or a person/their partner has grown into someone different and the things one desired in a partner/saw in a partner are no longer there. I don't think you can come back from that. I think you can 'settle', I think you can decide to 'make the best of it'. But that's not 'falling back in love'.

For you, I think you have to throw in the mix this couple you've gotten involved with. Are they the reason you've fallen out of love or are they the result of no longer loving your H? I really do think counseling would help you. You have a lot to unpick.

No no no no no! I had this in a relationship. I didn't fancy or even particularly like the guy, but he kept saying "I don't mind, I just enjoy being with you" etc. I found it really hard to refuse sex when he was apparently doing me a favour and expecting nothing in return... 🤔

Somewhere in the back of my mind I knew there was something not quite right about this 😃and finally, one day the penny dropped: Why the fuck was I feeling obliged to have sex etc with someone I didn't fancy or like?!

Once I realised that the game was actually weighed in his favour, I lost no time in booting him out, but I still shudder to look back on what I put up with for some time.

Your therapist sounds like they're doing more harm than good. Your husband sounds sneaky and abusive. Your kids will be better off without this kind of toxic dynamic in their home. Others, like the splendid Watchkeys, will come and explain all that better than me.

Good luck untangling all this OP! I know it's not easy!

You can’t nest and co habit with someone you don’t get on with?

It would be different if you both liked and respected each other but that doesn’t seem to be the case.

Trying to do this where the relationship / friendship has totally broken down is impossible.

You arent unreasonable to be worried and scared - of course it wouldn’t be immediately easy and sorted but long term you’d be absolutely fine, probably better than fine. Your husband would be too. Lots of people do it, god I think the majority of people end up doing it unfortunately.

It seems like you either have to find a way back to your marriage (doesn’t sound like you just don’t want to and that is 100% acceptable and enough of a reason in itself) or you have to completely split, the co parenting in the same space doesn’t sound possible in this situation sorry

Have you read on here about The Ick ? Once you get that feeling it's game over and you will never feel attracted again.

As the person who is sure about their feelings, you need to leave and show your kids what a loving adult relationship doesn't look like. Otherwise you risk them staying in dead relationships because they saw you do the same.

The person who told you that relationships with violence on both sides is talking shit. This is an extreme example but most people would categorize Amber Heard and Johnny Depp's relationship as toxic and abusive.

It's not inevitable that kids are damaged by divorce. If you can maintain an amicable coparenting relationship then you can minimise the damage. Don't forget that staying is also damaging the kids. People on here have talked about their parents decision to stay for the sake of the kids and they all say that they wish that their parents had split. It's a very heavy burden to bear and as the kids get older they knew things were wrong and there was always an atmosphere that they couldn't wait to escape from.
The money issue makes things more complicated but the longer you stay, the more that you'll end up resenting each other. (Would you divorce after the kids left home?)

Nesting is not a good idea in your case. If I had nested with my ex, it would have sent me crazy to see his credit card bills or proof that he was dating someone else and cleaning after the man who left me would have made me furious. Luckily he had a different home which established boundaries and helped healing quicker.

Yes, I am also interested to hear more about this possible polyamorous relationship and was going to ask the same thing.

I'm concerned that you tried marriage counselling and because it hasn't "worked", your DH says "he was feeling frustrated/let down/lied too."

Just because marriage counselling hasn't worked, doesn't mean you 'lied' to him or made promises that you haven't fulfilled.

My ex (abusive, coercive!) used to do this, whenever I changed my mind, or expressed feelings he didn't like, he would say I had 'lied' about it.

I get the sense you're being cornered by all parties, so I would definitely take the great advice offered on here to really delve into some therapy and spend time on your own working out your thoughts. You could even explore journalling, meditating, a retreat to get some mental space.

I did separate and because of a uniquely tricky situation, the whole house of cards did fall down, but I picked myself up, went through hell for a couple of years, built up my career, and now although I have the usual single parent stuff, I no longer live with the exhausting 'niggling' feeling, relentlessly turning over the relationship in my head and I have a deeper sense of peace and self awareness.

Staying and 'faking it' is not modelling a healthy relationship for your kids.

If you had plenty of money, would you divorce in a heartbeat? If so, that's your answer: it's money not feelings that are stopping you.

I agree with Dibbydoos
I think we often take partners for granted, especially as the mundane stuff grinds us down.
We tend to stop valuing their positive qualities and focus on the negative.

I am not saying in any way that people should stay in unhappy relationships, but to be honest you sound unfulfilled in life, and I agree that getting counselling and your career on track would be good for you.

I think this is very complicated. Lots of other posters have given you sound advice on most points and my only advice would be to get rid of the couple friends who you are interested in. From experience, having feelings for another person (or people in your case) will completely obliterate any feelings you may still have for your husband and will not allow you to make rational decisions.

I acted on my feelings for someone once and it ended my relationship. I was utterly infatuated but it didn’t start off like that and it was a friendship that gradually gained momentum. It wasn’t worth it but I lied to myself to ages trying to convince myself it was just a close friendship that I couldn’t possibly give up. I wish I had the sense to cut him off at the first slightly inappropriate text and either worked on my relationship or realised that it definitely was over.

You probably don’t realise how much these people will be clouding your judgement and if nothing else I would advise you to cut them out of your lives.

I'm stuck on the bit where he broke your phone and punched the wall. And you are scared when he starts up. This would be an absolute deal-breaker for me. Shouting back and throwing a computer mouse is irrelevant and not comparable to his aggression.

Just get out. I don't know why you or anyone on this thread is trying to convince yourself that this is saveable, it sounds distinctly not saveable- you've tried two lots of counselling, he's angry and you are scared and you dread spending your life with him. I think you will all feel a lot better and less scared/angry when the decision is taken.

I don't know much about the polyamorous situation, except that it seems to me you are scared of coping on your own, and so having a ready-built family unit where you all share everything seems ideal to you. I'd caution against that, you are not in a position to make that decision from here, and it could all get very messy and unpleasant for the children if it then doesn't work out. Build a life for yourself first, even if it means benefits/UC, part-time work and then work out what's going on, there's no rush for that.

The problem here is that you don't fancy him by the sounds of things and he isn't even a barrel of laughs just to have a friendship with.
I totally understand how daunting going it alone feels, my marriage is far from perfect but not bad enough to be running a home myself and see the children half of the week. So I am staying put.
Agree with not fantasising about anyone else though, that will stop any progress.

Just look at what an impact your own parent/stepparent relationship had on you, and now think how damaging it will be for your own children to grow up surrounded by toxicity. If the love is gone, it's gone. There is no faking it for the children's sake. They will see right through that. Especially when you and your husband aren't on the same page with the state of your relationship and future.

What BadNomad wrote.

Your childhood was abusive and your stepfather was abusive along with being an extremely poor role model of a man. By the way is he still with your mum?.

It’s of no great surprise that you are with an abusive man now and that is primarily why joint counselling has not worked. Abuse is not a relationship problem and the counsellor you saw should be reported as he/she does not understand abuse at all.

What do you want to teach your children about relationships and what are they learning here?

Is this really the model you want to be showing them?. I would argue that no it is not.

In your position I would choose, for now, to co-parent as housemates on good terms, with no expectation of sex,. I'd try to foster a mutual respect and create mutually beneficial goals to be good parents, increase earnings and respect each other's space. I genuinely don;t think splitting up, with the emotional and financial burden that entails would be less stressful than trying to live harmoniously together.

You both clearly care and are both making a massive effort to improve anger issues. There's no rule that says you can only live together if you get the romance back. You could be a functional parental unit and wait until you are both securer in every way before you move on to new partners and make the split.

FWIW I think over the course of a long marriage people do fall in and out of love with each other. It can be quite an unnerving feeling when, after years of feeling nothing for your DH you suddenly fall head over heels back in love with him.

I personally think marriage is as much a practical state as a state of permanent romance. If you respect and like someone and think they are an excellent parent, that;s worth saving. I'd never chuck that away just to scratch an itch romantically. I don't prize romance over the wellbeing and stability of my children.

Now you’ve reached this point in your feelings, I think it’s probably beyond repairable.

Take out the neighbour couple you fancy, I'm in a similar position. He's not violent and I'm not afraid, but we don't love each other and I'm scared of the impact on the kids. I don't know what to advise you - I don't have it in me to leave. But I will tell you that my parents also had a loveless marriage and stayed together for the kids. They didn't respect each other. but still to this day push this ridiculous fantasy that our family is brilliant and out childhood was amazing. And sure, it was fine. But I'm convinced that I'm in this position because they gave me this model. As a child it was great to have my parents together, but as adults my siblings and I have never had a normal relationship, not one between the three of us. My children will probably end up the same, it's all a mess.

You need to just separate.

You won’t be able to nest or have an open marriage because he wants to rekindle the relationship but you don’t.

The marriage counselling is a waste of time and money.

It’s not fair on him or the DCs that you are taking your time deciding what you want, when actually your minds already made up but you’re just worried about being single and you’re trying to find a way to have the best of both worlds.

It doesn’t exist.
You are either together or separated.
You can’t have both.

It’s time for you to start finding somewhere else to live and starting the separation process.

OP your children need a happy mother more than they need married parents.

I say this as child of divorced parents.

You both have anger issues and you are having an emotional affair with a couple.

Your kids deserve better, you need to divorce.

BTW, your thread reminds me a bit of this one. Sharing here in case there are useful overlaps for you.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/4211900-does-love-come-back-what-do-i-do?page=1

Nobody has suggested it's 'always rooted in ruddy childhood', but this kind of thing often is, so it's worth asking OP, even if you don't think it is

And what is currently being rooted in the OPs kids childhoods because OP doesnt want to go it alone without the financial stability currently enjoyed? Should they just unpick it later on in life then when history repeats itself?

You're triangulating with this married couple and likely subconsciously drawn to them because it allows you to play out some childhood dynamic. Did you feel excluded by your parents' relationship?

You don't want DH because he is far too available and you have labelled him unsexual. I'd ask him to show you the porn he watches