My husband says to use him and it doesn't matter that I don't love him

[IfOnlyLifeCameWithAManual]

Our marriage hasn't been the best over the last five years. For three years after our dd5 was born there was no intimacy, and now it infrequent. There's been arguing on and off over the years that hit a peak in March where he punched a wall.

Since then my husband and I have both reined in our arguing and we've attended marriage counselling. I can see he's trying his hardest and I like to think I am too, following the advice of the counsellor in terms of date nights, focussing on why we got together etc. The marriage counsellor kept saying in each session that my husband loved me and worshipped the ground I walk on and I need to value his worth. That my inability to be sure about staying married was causing him anxiety which was coming out at anger. I ended up ending the counselling because it just kept making me feel frustrated and upset.

I just don't love him. And I'm filled with dread when I imagine spending the rest of my life with him. I didn't feel this way 11 years ago when we married.

My husband says we can get it back. I've told him I'm not in love with him. I suggested we nest and coparent to reduce the impact of splitting on the children. But my husband says we can get it back, we can fall in love again and he doesn't care if I use him in the meantime as a partner. He also pointed out,and as I keep reading on forums here, the impact of divorce would be massive for our children and I can't support them on my own as I'm a sahm with, I'm rapidly finding out, few job prospects. I will miss my children massively if we split, every birthday and Christmas. I can't imagine telling them were splitting. I know they won't have as good a quality of life if we split.

Can we get it back? Do I just keep on holding out and doing the date nights/flicking through photo albums? I've tried the saying something to be grateful for him each day.

Op, growing up in a family with a mother who doesn't love the father and has affairs with the neighbours, and a dad who punches walls will do WAY more damage than a split now

Yes, but forced for both us. Buy lube and try to reconnect, was the general message.

He only punched one wall. And after I then took the kids away for three days he promised to work on his anger.

Your father dying when you were five was a massive event for a young child ( unless you never knew him or saw him). Your stepfather saying you have him a heart attack with your behaviour tells me your step father must have been awful.

Tge feelings you speak if related to the other couple sound complex.

Imo
a, keep thinking/working on a job I you can do or retrain. (Someone on another thread asked for how to earn a hood living and is getting very good advice. Maybe you could try asking.) This is something for you whether you stay married or not.

b. Look for good counselling for yourself related to your life and give it time. Not marriage guidance counselling though for now.

c. Do things for yourself that you enjoy. Walks, see a friend, smal treats etc so it is not just all home and children.

In your shoes I’d stay married at least while you do a & b.

I see your point. I'm hoping that isn't the future though. I'm planning not to have affairs. He's working on his anger, as am I. And I want so desperately to fall back in love and make this happy, healthy family dynamic for us. He says we can do it. I don't know why I have doubts.

Who has made you feel that this is a reason to stay with this man?! the impact of divorce would be massive for our children and I can't support them on my own as I'm a sahm with, I'm rapidly finding out, few job prospects.
The impact of them due to you staying in this relationship is much worse. And you absolutely don't have 'few job prospects' wonder who is filling you with this nonsense!

Divorce will perhaps make a messy few years for you and your kids. Staying in this relationship will program them for life that adult relationships look like this. No love, a struggle to feel anything more than almost-acceptance, an undercurrent of anger and violence.

You were shown as a child that your behaviour, if you acted as you felt and wanted to act, was destructive to the family unit, and that's how you're living now. We all follow what we're taught in our childhood, until we learn better. You've done it, to the extent that you struggle to see how it could be wrong. Your kids will do it, in the same way. They will re-create your relationship for themselves. You can choose whether to perpetuate this or not, by learning to see further than your conditioning.

Thank you. I will look for that thread. I am about to start a course but it will be a while before I'm earning.

I will look for more counselling. I had some individual counselling at the beginning of the year but it didn't work out and then we went to marriage counselling. But now that's stopped I guess the funds are there for more counselling.

I know I didn't kill my dad, although the thought haunted me as a child and I think has given me a grandiosity complex, in that I think I have more impact on others than I do. My step dad said it in a moment of anger and exasperation. I know that now. But I guess it stuck with me.

I'll keep doing stuff for myself, thank you. I've felt better for doing that in the past. Thank you.

I think “in love” is a bit of a red-herring - it’s a bit “moonlight and roses” and it’s natural for those feelings to pass in an LTR. I think you’re talking about not loving him any more. And I would say it’s not surprising that you don’t given how he has behaved to you in the past.

And btw: I’m sure your behaviour as a 5 yo was within the bounds of normal and, if it wasn’t, that was because of the distress of the situation you were in. Losing a parent at 5 is huge and it sounds like no-one helped you process that and no-one recognised its impact on you.

Growing up in a seriously dysfunctional family is likely to be considerably more damaging to your DCs than you splitting - particularly if you reach a place where you can co-parent reasonably and sensibly.

All that said, I don’t think it’s appropriate or reasonable to place the entire blame for the relationship breakdown on him any more than it would be for it to be placed on you. Since you’re the one wanting to end the relationship, you might have to accept more ‘blame’ than is entirely fair if only to demonstrate that this isn’t something he can fix and there is no way back for you.

| To ask how I can become "rich"? |

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4672409-to-ask-how-i-can-become-rich?page=16

It became clear from other posters that what she thought of as rich was only just enough to cover certain things. Lots of people have good practical ideas if you go to the first thread.

Take great care of yourself ( counselling for you; special activities for you.)

Dery
And btw: I’m sure your behaviour as a 5 yo was within the bounds of normal and, if it wasn’t, that was because of the distress of the situation you were in. Losing a parent at 5 is huge and it sounds like no-one helped you process that and no-one recognised its impact on you.

Absolutely.

Thank you for finding the link for me. :)

This is the best advice.

Here are my thoughts;

I can see some 'benefits' to you @IfOnlyLifeCameWithAManual as far as staying in this marriage. It maintains your 'status quo' as far as your living situation goes. It doesn't disrupt your life as far as moving, job etc. It's 'safe', as it were.

But, and it's a big one, your H (not so 'D' right now) has shown that he reacts to frustration with anger and violence. Right now he thinks there is a 'chance' for reconciliation so he's content to continue to act the spouse and provide all your comforts. But how long before his hope turns to disappointment, then to frustration, finally to anger? And how will that anger manifest? It appears that he's pinned his entire life's happiness on you 'coming to your senses'. He may feel that he has put 'everything' into saving your marriage and that you have done 'nothing but take'. He's been violent in the past, how violent will he when he sees all his efforts were for naught?

And should you try this 'arrangement', what is the likelihood that he will then calmly let you leave if in a month, a week, a year you decide you just can't live with him anymore?

Another thing, you need to back away from this other couple. This entanglement is clouding the waters. You need to be detached from any 'outside influences' to make the right decision on going vs staying. And dump that fucking counselor! Where did they get their counseling degree, a correspondence course? No counselor worth their salt is going to heap 'blame' on one member of a couple, nor tell them they are responsible for their partner's inability to process frustration/disappointment in a rational and adult way! What a crock! If you feel you need help in making a decision, see a different counselor, ALONE. You don't need couples counseling. You need a safe place to pick through your own feelings and needs in privacy and confidentiality.

Personally, I'd separate. I wouldn't want the Sword of Damocles of his potential temper explosion hanging over my head. And I'd want the complete freedom to explore my life and make my own choices.

Thank you everyone for your comments. Its helpful to have an outsider's perspective.

I guess my question is, is there a way back?

I'm willing to do individual counselling and more marriage counselling, albeit with a different therapist. Has anyone moved on from feeling like they've checked out? I look at him, trying so hard, and I want so badly to get it back and make it work. I just can't find whatever I need to find internally to do that.

Change counselours, their job is not to convince you to stay in an unhappy relationship because your husband says to worship the floor you walk on.

For what is worth, my marriage counselour told me something like that eventually we stopped seeing him.

Next time I was in counselling, when I mentioned this, my new fully certified, nhs hired senior counsellor asked me, with the permission and agreement of her boss for the details of my previous counselour to report him for malpractice.

Not all marriages deserve to be saved and it hurts the children far more to stay in a bad relationship than split amicably.

Can I ask why you think I should leave? He's been trying to hard with his anger and low mood.

Sometimes it's not something you can get past and makes you fall out of love with them. I couldn't get past the wall-hitting, especially if there's been moodiness and anger in the past (which would be too much like growing up, with my dad.)

The counsellor sounds one sided and awful. Ignore everything she said.

If you are only staying together for finances and your stability in your home, then return8ng to the job or career you had pre-children would go some way towards giving you financial freedom,

Please free yourself from this. You've tried, you've really tried.

But his anger is not your fault, is it HIS issue - and you don't have to live with it.

So what if you feel you've done things wrong too. This isn't a point scoring exercise, this is your life and you deserve a chance at living it well.

God I think that therapist needs reporting to the professional body. Is she actually properly qualified?

children always work it out when their parents stay together just for them and divorced parents need not be a great life tragedy and living with someone with anger issues who you don't love will be destructive for all of you.

Your husband will need to pay cs when you split, that said you don't need to act immediately, if you want to get yourself into a better financial position first that's fine.

But do leave.

Sounds like you intend to jump ship for a poly triad immediately. This will end badly. ESPECIALLY if you move in so that you can continue having the standard of living you want.

Well yes you can do it on your own, of course you can, it’s hard but you can.

You may well also be able to get the love back, what is love anyway? It’s so many things, loyalty, reliability, trust, having someone’s back, being a team, intimacy… you do have some of things things, you do feel some love. Love is a choice, it’s something you do every day, something that wanes and fluxes but it has a core.

But you have to commit to it - he’s right the worst thing ever - worse than divorce - is you being in two minds and basically keeping the whole family dangling while you say you don’t want him, but say you can’t leave him. That is incredibly damaging for everyone. If I were you I’d really, really commit to this relationship for a certain period of time, say 1 or 2 years. It’s a lot to throw away, and you can’t really get it back. But really commit to it, that doesn’t mean you automatically find love, it just means you say for that time - I’m staying, no matter what (well obviously not abuse). You make it clear to him that you are staying, no matter what. Don’t expect to be full of love, but work out what you need from life, not just your partner, build yourself up, find small things you like about him. If he’s making you feel irritated, get a bit of space, go away for a weekend without him, explore friendships and interests. Have some great time with the family, bonding time, with no ‘forced’ being together, just allow yourselves to be.

Have you ever watched any Esther Perel?

You seem to want so much. I'm not sure it's actually on offer.

She talks a lot about infidelity but her talks are much more than that, it's a look at relationships and the immense pressure we put on modern relationships to be EVERYTHING. That one person cannot fulfil all that pressure and we are doomed to be disappointed. She might help you work out how to find the spark again.

When I can see him getting tense I do start to feel scared but I think that's my own mental state rather than anything he's doing as he's just being tense.

This sounds unhealthy all round.

What was your relationship like pre-kids?

I think you should work very hard on yourself, not on ‘the relationship’ per se, and then you’ll be in a better place to leave and not fear the impact on your children. (Who will almost certainly be absolutely fine, btw, particularly if you don’t immediately get into an unconventional romantic entanglement.)

To some extent I think you're a bit immature.

What do you want? Have you ever been through with your therapist what love actually is?

Your notion of love seems to be a Disney version. That's not real life. And thinking of going into a triad relationship is just very off the wall and weird.

Are you sure you're not self-sabotaging? Perhaps you think you don't deserve to be happy because long ago someone blamed you for their own problems and now you feel like you need to rock the boat continually and be in 'exciting' relationships because 'exciting' - read 'destructive' relationships are all you've ever known?

Be very very careful. You're right that the kids and you will suffer tremendously. With the cost of livign crisis, is now really the right time to do it?

I often think we are perpetually aggreived by a sense of disappointment in our lives because the media etc tells us what we 'should' be having. But it's all just such a lie. Endless fairytale happiness isn't on offer. Overall I think you just sound immature, like you are hoping for a Disney ending, when that's just not possible.

The realities of life are so very different to that.

I did meet someone else in the last year. In fact two other people, a married couple I've been friends with for ten years. It's complicated but we've all admitted feelings for each other but I refuse to make a decision based on that because, well that's ignoring the core issue, that I can't seem to fall in love with my husband. And, in all honesty, I love them and I'm so scared of negatively impacting their marriage, my kids' lives and their kids' lives. They did back in April, or at least my female friend did, paint this fantasy of us living together and supporting each other and I stupidly grasped at that. But in reality it's a fantasy I didn't want to pin anyone's futures on. But, yes, that changed too

So you were considering a polyamorous relationship with this couple?
I think perhaps you need to explore your feelings about this a bit more. How did this start? Is that really something you are interested in? Are you bi? Is your sexuality perhaps playing a role in the way you feel about your marriage.
The whole things very complicated and would suggest to me that the relationship you are in with your DH is completely wrong for you for all kinds of reasons in addition to the fact that he is aggressive and throws things.

The counsellor is an absolute nightmare. My first thought on reading your OP was that it was all wrong - she shouldn't be saying things like that - but as I've never had counselling I wasn't sure. However plenty of other posters have backed up what I was thinking.
You should definitely get your own counsellor and explore your own issues rather than the marital issues as such. It seems like there is a lot going on that has nothing to do with the marriage at all.

I think you should leave him though because:
I just don't love him. And I'm filled with dread when I imagine spending the rest of my life with him. I didn't feel this way 11 years ago when we married
this tells you all you need to know as far as the marriage is concerned. It's over. There's no way back from that.