November 2022 - well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

This is the latest thread, please feel free to write as much or as little as you please.

WWYD at Christmas, if you were me

DP is working on Christmas Day. Spending morning with parents and afternoon we’ve all been invited to DSis’s. AIBU not to want to go?
I can’t work out if I will feel sad by myself during the afternoon or if it’ll kick up trouble, but nor do I want to feel uncomfortable around my sister when I will essentially be the ‘5th wheel’ and her NPD ways on Christmas Day. After DP has finished work we are visiting his family overnight and then back to see my extended family on Boxing Day.

Sorry I don’t really know how this thread works but if possible please help! I am an only child and was raised by my mum alone. She is highly intelligent and in many ways gave me many opportunities re education and empathy for animals, has given me a great sense of confidence and sense of self.

But emotionally it was a lot of withdrawal of love, she would stop making eye contact with me for weeks if I made an infringement on her ego (once this was set off by 7 year old me telling her that she had some spinach in her teeth, genuinely as a warning and not in a snarky way) and screaming matches, even though I was a very chilled teenager. Lots of me being an extension of herself. I haven’t had a screaming argument with anyone in my life since leaving home, except for once which was with her when she came on a holiday with me and had offered to drop a friend at the airport and then had a meltdown about being “used” - literally the bare minimum of help to offer!

When I was a teenager she married an alcoholic who was pretty abusive - charged me rent despite me studying full time, told me to cut off my hair and show him all my bank receipts every month if I wanted to stay under his roof, generally ranting and raving sexist and racist shit every night. I was as quiet as a mouse in that house and tried to just be polite and get through but it wasn’t enough and I eventually moved out during uni and had to financially support myself, my grades suffered as a result but I have made a good career.

I now live overseas near my biological dad who, whilst physically absent during childhood, always made me feel loved and financially supported and is an absolute darling - he is currently the full time, devoted carer for my step mum who is currently end of life. I had to say my last goodbyes to her before I came back to my home country last week to be with my mum who is recovering from chemo and radiation.

My mum is being cared for by her two sisters, they have moved in and have stayed with her for 6 weeks so far. This last two weeks will be the worst in terms of side effects, they’ll leave and then I will be alone for the first time with my mum and her husband, who has been drinking heavily every night since I have arrived. (I like a drink myself but this is next level).

My plan was to stay an additional week alone with them, as hopefully the radiation therapy effects have chilled out a bit and she will be able to care for herself -
and then meet DP and go to a wedding together and see all the many friends and family that I have in this country but haven’t been able to see for years.

My Aunty keeps mentioning how my mother would really rather I stay on, how I am expected to be her carer now and will need to change her bed sheets etc. NONE of this has been prior agreed with me!

I do not feel safe in this house even for the week I had planned to be here and would never stay here for more than 1 night previously.

Mum is currently so full of love for me, but she is not making eye contact with her husband, so I know that I am actually just currently a pawn in this - she is punishing him and being super loving to me. I know that at any moment this could switch.

Last night she called me into her bedroom and said some truly awful things about my biological father and his wife, implying that he was only after her for her money - this man has been her 24 hour carer for the last 3 years and won’t actually inherit anything as all going to her daughter! This is also someone I’ve had to say goodbye to for the last time this week. Like why would you feel it’s appropriate to negatively gossip about their relationship as if they are Harry & Meghan. I can only imagine driven by wanting to drive a wedge between me, or to sour my relationship with them, I make herself feel better about him leaving her.

I don’t think her sisters realise what my childhood was like. I’m so afraid that if I leave as planned I will go down in family history as the child who abandoned her mother cruelly! I also feel quite guilty like maybe I should be staying longer.

@Ncforthis002 I don't know what to say but wanted to acknowledge you. If your mum has a partner, then he should care for her. Be Frank with the aunts about how you have been treated. Make your decision on what you feel, not who guilts you

@NeptuneOrion think you need your own thread. Am I reading this correctly that your parents in law are trying to demand contact? Is your DP non contact with them and is that why?

Yes that's exactly it. 😬

Just one parent in law.

@Ncforthis002 Don't do too much caring. You will get swallowed up and you won't go back to your actual life. Organise care instead. Is there a Macmillan nurse system where you are? + a carer's agency?

I think you need to have an abuse-free, narc-free relationship to deal with toiletting an adult. It's too much to ask of you. You are allowed NOT to do it.

Hi all, please can I have some advice on my thread:

Forced to invite in-laws who hate us ?! http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/amiibeingunreasonable/4697676-forced-to-invite-in-laws-who-hate-us

Really need some help. Can anyone recommend good reading material for me to deal with this?

Thank you @NeptuneOrion and @walkinthewoodstoday for your messages of support.

It’s so isolating being an only child and having a complicated mother relationship and a sick parent, especially over Christmas with so many posts about happy families!

I am so nervous for Christmas Day as it will just be me alone with the two of them and he will be drunk, he can be a cheerful chatty drunk so it’s not all abuse but it could turn so quickly to them both ranting and raving about various topics that we clash on.

They are both being on best behaviour while mum’s sisters are here. I am really dreading what will happen in the week that they are gone, and whether things will revert back to my horrendous teenage years that I have managed to escape for over a decade.

I went NC with my parents a few months ago. In the process, my brother, the gc, identified himself as a flying monkey, as did my sil. Their homophobic attitudes necessitated I cut them out of my & DS lives as well. Now the guilt and grief over losing my relationships with my nieces & nephews (ages 7-12) is eating me alive. It almost makes me want to beg their mercy and swallow their bigotry. Especially as I see that my brother has assumed the mantle of generational abuser. The patriarchal, "Good Christian" who is hitting you "for your own good." It makes me sick to see him destroying his 12yo daughter's spirit just the way our father did to me. I feel so helpless.

Hi everyone, I have posted on here a few times. I was wondering if anyone has experienced this, and apologies if it is not strictly what the thread is for (friendship rather than family relations). I will remove if so.

I was wondering if anyone experienced very difficult female relationships due to their mother relationship involving lots of FOG (fear obligation guilt) and feeling the need to appease, put others needs before your own, fawn etc. just to survive and not get punished with silent treatments, put downs, screaming depending on the mood of the person.

I seem to encounter always a female who strongly dislikes me for no apparent reason. Many might say this is just life and everyone experiences it which I do see, but it is very triggering for me and I usually have to remove myself from that persons orbit completely for protection. The downside is in this current case I feel like I am missing out on other social interactions because of this person.
What they have done is not obvious but they do things like be very friendly then exclude me, respond to everyone else in messages except me, sometimes acknowledge my presence, sometimes not, sometimes be very friendly with my child (which i find weird) but not even look at me. It is bringing back very painful feelings from my family dynamic and I just don't know how to deal with it. There have also been several 'on the edge' remarks which you could take either way. My other half has seen it too.

I can see this is not a big problem in the grand scheme of things and I don't want to be insensitive to others stories on here as this might seem rather trivial. Thank you also everyone for sharing and I wish I could offer advice but I do empathise with everyone.

It is bringing back very painful feelings from my family dynamic and I just don't know how to deal with it
Thats not at all trivial and I do think it has a place on these threads. I know exactly what you are talking about, and I think that abusive women can spot me, from my body language and facial expressions that I learned as a child.
Its happened so often I've practically given up socialising.

You know you aren't imagining things because your husband can see it happening. The question that bothers me is - why do the people round those types enable them? Why are so many people prepared to put up with such poor behaviour in others, and go along with excluding their victims?

@DuchessOfEndor - this is so upsetting. I know because I have also lost contact with nephews and nieces. When going NC there is always collateral damage and there is nothing we can do about it.

Going NC is the only way to break the cycle (for you). If you get drawn back in the whole awful cycle will start again. The only thing you can do perhaps is to always remember to send them a birthday card and a little gift each year - something very neutral like a book token that cannot be disparaged by their parents.

I really don't know what the answer is. I was absolutely gutted to lose those relationships but I also know that it was not my fault. It was a direct result of my sisters toxic behaviour and her flying monkeys.

I'm in contact with my dad.
Me 30s him 70s.
Sometimes I still can't figure out if he is abusive or not. Only that I feel bad around him.

Right now he's on the drink and batching about me to my brother.

Hey guys

Just checking back in, I used to post here a lot but needed a breather. I am in ongoing therapy m for a childhood of neglect and abuse by mother parents.

Xmas time is so triggering for so many reasons. I am no contact with my Narc father but he has my address (I didn’t give it to him) and yesterday he sent a tonne of presents for my 1 year old (who he has met briefly once at my wedding where he was very rude to me and almost ruined my big day). He also sent a card, as did my enabling step mum (also no contact now). Why do I feel this is all more manipulation rather than him giving because he cares about my daughter?

Do I respond / acknowledge? Do I ignore? Do I give my child his presents? Or donate? I just don’t really know how to handle this. I can’t wait to move so he can no longer send me stuff.

Additionally my mother - covert narc, low contact - is having some health problems and seems using these to guilt trip me because I haven’t seen her this Xmas. To the point where she hasn’t even bought her grand daughter a present. Although seems to have had a change of heart and is now asking me what to buy her (I sent her a few nice treats to be nice), which I find really triggering because it’s always like this, she finds it impossible to buy anyone a present without being told what to buy. Prob because she knows nothing about us. Her health condition seems to have gotten worse (I fear she drinks too much these days) and no doubt it’s pretty awful what she is going through but she hasn’t done very much to sort her health out or explore how she can treat her condition holistically. I bought a book today to read up on it. This is the field I am retraining in so I am interested, but I am falling back into my old ways of trying to sort everyone out?

I am feeling ok despite all these triggering things happening. I seem to have reached a bit more acceptance that they are both deeply flawed individuals who I don’t deserve a lot of effort. And I that I don’t need to be the person who brings everyone together anymore. I have my own family now and DH’s are lovely, they deserve my attention more than my parents.

X

Hi, Would really like to (re)join you all - I was here several years ago before my Dad died and found having a safe space so helpful. My current situation is that Mum (definite narc traits & resulting emotional abuse) has Alzheimer's which has got worse since a recent fall. She is understandably scared but this can result in some unpleasant reactions to me - especially when she feels that I am being 'bossy' - for example by trying to arrange help for when she came out of hospital 🤷‍♀️
My brother isn't nearby so I'm basically doing this on my own alongside my amazing husband. I also work full time in an emotionally demanding job so I am pretty much done in.
This is the bit I really need to say...
I don't like my mum. She is highly manipulative & has been vile to me over the years. I am mired in FOG however. She cannot manage on her own & there is only me nearby. We live in the same small community so not possible to go NC & I don't think I want that anyway - she is still my mum & although I really don't like her I don't want her to suffer. I hate having to be her carer & treating her with kindness when I've had so much unkindness & vitriol from her - it really sticks in my throat.
It's exhausting though dealing with the uncertainty of her reaction to everything & constantly makes me feel like I'm 7 & have done something wrong! I'm in my 50s & have older teens fgs!!!!!
Thankyou for reading - it feels good to get that off my chest!

@winningeasy Your father probably enjoyed buying these gifts and will enjoy thinking that he is generous and then the victim when...

To maintain NC - do not respond in any way. What you do with the gifts depends on how you feel about having them in the house. I would want them out of the house asap - so would donate.

I also wouldn't get involved with helping your mum with her gift and reply something like this 'your choice - I'm sure they will enjoy anything suitable for their age' and then when pushed 'I haven't got any specific ideas - you'll need to choose'.

@UnderTheOakTree I went through similar with my father (although I did have the full support of one brother). We did what we needed to do - arranged care, cleaners, paid bills, visited for the day-to-day non direct caring jobs, took him to appointments etc, dealt with emergencies but had quite a formulaic way to it. If I was visiting (before his dementia got bad and he was in hospital/care home) and he rude/had an angry outburst (as his MO before the dementia) - I told him I wasn't putting up with that so I was leaving now and would be back on (whenever I next planned to go). Visits were always short and always job focused.

@Gliere Thankyou - I like the description of doing things in a formulaic way. I do try to be as 'grey rock' as possible so she doesn't have too much to latch on to & I have left a couple of times when she's been nasty.
I think part of the problem is being the only one on call - she doesn't accept that she needs help until she needs it & then it's a deluge of self-pity & tears often with a bit of implied blame to me thrown in for good measure!

That sounds hard @UnderTheOakTree . I didn't get the tears and self pity - anger/rudeness/lies in many ways is easier to deal with.
It felt good the first time I left when he was behaving badly (it actually worked very well and the next visit he was much nicer and even said thank you) - like I was getting some power back. Wish I had done it years ago!
It is hard to be compassionate to people who have caused us such suffering in the past and just didn't care 💐.
I used to look at the clock when I got there and decide on a time I was leaving.

To add I can bring myself to say she is narcissistic as we are religious. I’ve pondered it but haven’t delved deeper out of fear and as it mostly focuses on narcissistic partners.
I truly don’t understand being jealous and horrible to your child. Offering help then withdrawing it, making the terms of help so constrained it’s like what’s the point of accepting it, helping then pawning the task off to a sibling. Not to mention draining me financially when I was literally broke then treating me badly when I stopped extending myself financially and was doing very well for myself.
All theses thing go round in my head and I can’t stop fixating on it.

@Chocolatpot Well done for going NC. I don't think that the damage done by our parents is necessarily something we can repair without professional help but I have found it helpful to try to accept that it's there & allow the feelings to be there but to focus on where I am now (even despite the constant reminders as I can't go NC due to living about 20 steps away...)
I know this doesn't work for everyone but it has allowed me to start to move on a bit (still a work in progress though!)
Mindfulness based cognitive therapy has helped as well.
You sound amazing to have got through all of this

@UnderTheOakTree thanks, I understand I need professional help and I start seeing a psychiatrist next year. I often think I am victimising myself, entitled and being judgemental of my Mother and father. But I know this is not normal. Sorry you live so close to your parent that can’t be easy at all x

Are you able to build and sustain relationships? I don’t get why someone would want to be with someone with so many problems, friends and partners.

@UnderTheOakTree sorry you are in this position I empathise with you it can’t be easy having to set a slide the pain and be a carer to your mother. I don’t know much about it but could you not handover her care to the local council? This should not be your burden.