should i just get over myself?

[green]

Could i ask for a reality check please?

My husband is a 'good' man and he is a great dad. We've had some serious ups and downs (prob more downs that ups)- I've had post natal depression, he's had an affair. We have been in couples therapy on and off for 4 years.

The basic problems are that he is emotionally not HERE, very very distant. I'm not sure if he is unable or unwilling to make an emotional connection? Secondly, I feel often undermined by him.

Should I just get over myself and realise that marriage is a comprimise and I need to find other ways to be happy - I appreciate my self esteem is my responsibility and maybe I need to fill my life more with other supportive people to fill our lack of emotional bond.

Anyone else had this and made a decision to leave in order to find potential greater happiness, or is that a really risky game to play?

Completely agree with Dittany about lack of affection making one feel more needy and like the hunger analogy VERY much. The fact that he could be doing this on purpose to keep the upper hand very interesting. Do you think he is capable of this?? It would certainly go hand in hand with the undermining aspect of his relationship you referred to. I do wonder what he gets out of the relationaship though, if this is the case...

thanks dittany - x posts - i spent an age writing mine. that books looks interesting - will search it on amazon. yes its a lot to do with power - he has always had the power, apart from a while shortly after his affair when i felt the power shift really rebalance (for a while). obviously this is also all connected to money - he comes from a wealthy family who have helped us enormously and he is the breadwinner. i have no capital at all and have been a SAHM for most of the time.

Looks like Ms Counsellor finally made the breakthrough, but he's having none of it. It's so much easier to blame the wife and her "issues". Anger is a favourite way to deflect that uncomfortable suspicion that you should be ashamed of yourself.

Thats a great question - I'm not sure what he gets out of the relationship. I think he would say very little and if I'm honest, I would too. We are so disconnected from eachother. But yet, he seems not to want anything?

He gets alot from our 'marriage' - I'm a good cook, look after the children's needs, manage the house, do all the finances etc.

I think he merges his definition our relationship with his definition of our family - and that is why he is here. He is absolutely adoring of the children.

Do you think that anniegetyourgun (love the name!). Is that a common understanding about anger?

Got to pop out for a while, but will check when I get back. THANKS!

So he's still not actually communicating with you - emails are nothing like a conversation, and he's still not actually engaging with the situation... And sex is something he keeps quite separate from emotion... Hard to guess if there's anything which would make him actually connect with this marriage again.

Do you know - I had him pegged for a non PDA type of guy...

Why do you feel needy?? See above. You haven't had any emotional feedback from him for a long time, including those times (ill health, PND) when you really physically, mentally & emotionally needed it. We are social creatures. We need interaction with other humans. We form emotional bonds. MOst of us form lifelong emotional bonds of one kind or another. Your main bond is being witheld for whatever reason. You are geographically removed from your other bonds (family, friends). No wonder you felt invigorated by talking to new people and getting interest and respect back. Sounds like you don't get any at home. Have you pushed him away?? Possibly. My main form of defense and self preservation is to withdraw. It is a bit of a viscious circle I guess as comminucation suffers or disappears, but constant rejection can be awfully humiliating. Not to mention knock on effects on self esteem etc.

Do you think that the physical side of things is all he feels he has to do emotionally?? That is where he shows you how he feels and he dosn't see any need to re-inforce it or verbalise it outside the bedroom??

I feel for you, but without any willingness from him to address the above, I don't see what you can do single handedly to change the relationship.

what is PDA?

He isn't willing to address the above you are right, and in fact is angry for asking him to - he feels he has done all he can and I am asking too much (although as I type this I remember that he has admitted he is withholding).

I guess though that until now he has claimed he is happy. Its me that is saying I'm not and I'm pushing him to change. I am realising that it is unrealistic to ask him to show more connection. I am torn between realising life is a comprimise and making that comprimise for the sake of the kids whilst trying to get my emotional needs met elsewhere OR something else which I have not yet defined but obviously involves finishing the relationship. Fuck, it feels so hard. I'm sure it seems really simple from the outside, and its almost so simple its a non-starter. But it feels so complicated sitting here.

I have clung to him and pushed him away at times over the past 7 years which is how long this has bloody been going on for.

public displays of affection.

If he knows you are desperately unhappy in the relationship, then how can he possibly be happy and think everything is ok?? He cannot surely think if he ignores it all/you then everything is going to resolve itself?? Does he hope you will eventually give up and conform to some sort of dry, soul-less automatom, looking after the kids, preparing food, keeping house, but making no emotional demands upon him, but up for sez whenever he fancies?? Could you live like that??

What would his reaction be if he found out about your fling?? What is to stop it from happening again?? We all need an emotional connection/outlet. If he dosn't want to provide he has to see that you will eventually have to find someone else to fill the gap. Whether you stay with him at the same time is another question...

sex - sorry - really should preview

The therapist said this herself - if my needs aren't met then I will find someone else to fill them - this is human nature.
I think I need to ask him the question - what do you want. I'm not sure he has ever REALLY answered this - in our first session he claimed he was happy and didn't want to split up the family unit. He can't see that I'm unhappy and that is related to the relationship - he just thinks I'm not happy and never will be. When I say I want to move back to London (he doesn't) he justifies it by saying that I probably won't be happy there either.

Those of you who have been through a break up - can you tell me which part is the worst? I felt so bleak and black yesterday it was so intense. The thought of telling the children was killing me. My sister says that if he really does want to end it (which is what his email said) or indeed if I end it, then she suspects those few weeks are the worst (her intuition rather than having any experience of this).

Green - so sorry you are feeling so bleak. There are some very good, and wise, posts here. I think you know you can't carry on like this. I think asking your dh what makes him happy, what would make him happy, is a very good idea. Although I keep reeling that this hasn't been done in therapy. He sounds so ANGRY.

Alternatively, maybe if you ask him to leave as a temporary measure, it will suddenly make him wake up and realise what he is about to lose. It may also clarify things for you. But it really sounds untenable like it is.

Has your crush been in touch? Has this done your head in further?

Thinking about you. Have catted you too.

Oh fuck. Not feeling so bleak now, but so hideously confused. Have emailed you tmd. I'm like a yo yo - one minute I'm sure I need to leave and the next I'm convinced I should stay and we'll work it out. I'm even bloody boring myself now! Thanks for all advice guys.

You have to get yourself sorted first, self esteem, self image, etc. Please make that the priority. Have you been taking Ad's? Have they worked?

monkeytrousers - you are right of course. Self esteem and self image should be priority. In some ways I have got quite a good self esteem and self image, I know I am fun, attractive - I have good friends and think highly of myself in this regard. However I don't have a very good sense of self, in that I often seek approval. This is something I am working on in my own therapy - getting better at making decisions on my own and trusting my judgement.

The thing is there is a strong feeling at the moment within me that part of getting myself sorted involves 'starting again' or starting from scratch - in London and maybe without dh. Its this I don't trust fully - am I running away (coming from a place of messed up ness) or am I making a sensible decision and putting my needs first?

I know no one can make my decisions for me and I am trapped in turning this whole thing over and over in my head. It sucks, but I'm hoping I'll work through it.

oh and yes started taking ADs about 4 weeks ago and am starting to feel the benefit - they are keeping me from going under!

I honestly wouldn't know what to advise.
If it was just me I'd be brave and I'd go and I'd deal with the consequences. But its not just me - there are 3 little boys who love their daddy here.
Its interesting/strange that the thing that worries me most if I leave is that I'll regret it - the practical day to day things that should terrify me with regard to being a single mum are not pre-occupying my thoughts to the same degree???

And then he goes and runs me a bath coz I said I fancied one and even turns the lights off and lights my candle for me. I feel so ungrateful now.

Glad the ad's are helping. I would (just my opinion) resist that urge to run away if you ar enot in any danger - running away from a problem won't fix it.

green, your situation sounds spookily like mine too

can't post much as DH in room

but will try and post again later

am name-changer btw as am well-known on mn and RL by my mn name

ok, waiting to hear from you doingthedouble....

We had another chat today. He was really angry with me for a while and told me how spoilt I was and how I'm ungrateful for how much he does. I felt dreadful as he is really good with the kids and does financially support me and encourages me to go and see friends in London etc. Again he said how he has lost respect for me after all my issues, but feels that he has been supportive throughout. He said he feels like a bit part in the 'green' performance and still refuses to go back to the counselling.

After he calmed down we all went for a walk (in this glorious sunshine) and had a bit more of a chat which was more in the vein of what shall we do as we both can't stand it how things are. I just don't think he is ready to face the problem and he said he would feel a failure if we split up.

Another perspective on this green...I wonder if you may regret it if yor marriage ends.

Thinking about this from your Dh's point of view his difficulties with expressing emotion are in a way as valid as your need to share and receive affection. We all have our own issues for a variety of reasons.

I think that maybe for your DH his way of expressing emotion and love is by what he does for you. He may feel the fact that he is committed to you and your marriage works hard to provide for you is a good father and has been supportive throughout your issues, is a demonstration of his love and therefore feels frustrated and helpless that this does not seem enough.

I know that at times this does not seem enough for you, but I just wonder if you worked together and recognised the differences in your needs and accepted them but each worked to tyr to meet the other in some way that your marriage could be saved?

If you could start again you probably feel that you would choose a man more emotionally opne, but any man/person would bring their own unique set of issues to a marriage. Your emotionally ideal man, may have been a disinterested father etc.

You chose this man, and have a family with him. I'm not saying that in anyway everyone should stay together for the children BUT from what you've said I wonder that if overall, and in the longer term, your stasisfaction of having a happy family and togther bringing up your boys will bring you more happiness than a split family, even if aftre the split you do meet a man who meets your emotional needs.

Maybe more solution focused counseling would be beneficial? You both now seem to know the problem: You are emotionally incompatible. BUT how can you adress this to the extent that the good things you do have can be saved? Your counseeling sessions could give you targets/agreements (Iknow not very romantic) along the lines of , he will agree to inceae the physical affection level in some way, and you will agree to show him that you recognise what he does bring to the marriage in some way. You'd need the sessions to discuss how this is progressing.

I hope this makes some sense.

I thuink my marriage is a lttle like yours and I have come to recgnise that my DH shows his love for us all by what he does and this has helped me dealmore with my own feelings of needing/wanting more. It's not ideal,but we are a happy family.

Hi witheringheights

Thank you so much for your post and a different view point. I think you are absolutely right - his issues are are as valid as mine. Although I get frustrated at times, I do understand this and do not 'blame' him for this.

I'd like to think a little more about what you have said to see how it fits - can I ask you some more questions/get some feedback. I feel that its not affection which is at the core here, but almost a desire to communicate. About 75% of the time I try to talk to dh about stuff (from something trivial to something pretty huge) I feel a bit like a fly buzzing on his nose. He can get quite talkative about politics or 'abstract' theorising - but a bit like talking to a 'ghost' at other times. I think he does this with the children SOMETIMES too, so not something I should take particularly personally, but none the less difficult to live with. This is not something that is 'new' - we have talked about this soooo many times, and tried to address it, remember we have been in therapy for a looong time. What would your feedback be here? I'm sure its my issue at the heart of this here, and maybe if I was back 'home' with my friends and family around me I wouldn't feel like this - but often with this going on I feel like I am physically shrinking as I am not being heard. Whilst my sense of self is my responsibility I acknowledge, I feel I have to fight against this to get there.

Again, I'm sure my crush is getting in the way here. If you'd have said your post to me 6 months ago, it probably would have knocked me into line quick smart. But now I'm having all the bloody what ifs. How do I get over this anyone? We are not in contact but I am dreaming of him/ thinking of him etc. Oh I'm a bloody head case. Please don't give up on me. I'm sure I'll find my sanity soon.

Hi Green!

I don't think of it as a case of his issues or needs being more/less important, it seems to me that you have different and incompatiable issues/needs.

I guess I was exploring whther you both could reach some compromise on this where you came to accept that not all your needs were going to met by each other in exchange for some effort/movement by the other. The payback for this being that you maintain your family, have a good faher for the chikdren, a husband who supports you and who loves you by the sound of it, even though he way of expressing it is not what you would like/choose.

I wonder if you were able to view him and think about him in a difernt way then you could accomodate some of the less satisfying parts of your marriage more easily.

I do understand a bit I think. My reoccurent row with my Dh is that he doesn't listen to me ans this makes me feel invisable. This row surfaces every few months or so but most of the time I have the frame of mind where I've come to undrestand his personality, not take it personally, recogise the other ways he expresses his love and appreciate the wondreful family we have created and enjoy together.

Every few months or so though itdoes surface and I feel like 'why don't we lie in bed chatting for ages??!!!' The rows are less frequent as the marriage has gome on (9yrs) as I have gradually come to understand him more.

I wouldn't worry too much about the crush, indulge the thouhgts for a while but recognise it for what is and remeber any man/relationship involves 2 people with their own issues and will have it's own set of problems. Even the crush man.

Sorry about spellings writing quick Dh aro8und!