Married to someone with Asperger's/ASC: support thread 6

[Daftasabroom]

New thread, and as previously:

This thread is for partners seeking to understand the dynamics of their relationship with someone with ASD. It is a support thread, and a safe space to have a bit of a rant. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner. (ASD partners welcome to lurk or pop in, but please don't argue with other posters and tell them they are wrong).

Thanks to you all for the advice, I understand the grass isn’t greener and appreciate that may be a lot of people in this group decided to stay, and hence the ongoing support through this group.

I do have one question though, how do you maintain the love? If your needs are completely misaligned. And love being mutual understanding and language somewhat between you, the basic level you’d need in a relationship. Have your marriages become more functional and contractual? How do you make the rest work?

It is made more difficult as we have a very challenging 8 year old who has her own (undiagnosed) issues which, considering they include hyperactivity / incessant chattering, clash massively with my husband's desire for peace and order. I find myself constantly walking on eggshells and trying to divert world war 3 - it's exhausting!

Yes, I have something similar happening. Not exactly the same but similar. My dh to his credit, is trying to alter his repsonses but it is slow progress.

Yes functional but with an strongly implied agreement that we are both in this together. We can both choose to walk away. He knows he has more to lose than me. I stay because I guess I feel sorry for him and also for the reasons I stated above. But I also stay for his brilliant mind, his energy and drive, his unique perspective on life, his incredible stability, his everlasting commitment to do his best at whatever he is doing, his straight-forwardness, his lack of mind-game playing, his reliability, his commitment to family which is very important to him despite the fact that he pretty absent. He has many good qualities and we have areas of interests in the outside world that overlap so there are subjects to talk about. (Although conversations can be intense). In summary we have a shared set of values about how to live life and how we see the world. For that we are similar and I think it's why we were attracted to each other in the first place.

And when the children came, I suppose I thought that familial love within the family was more important than having romantic love for myself outside of this unit.

I find support from other women and my family and having an outside life. To some extent I think romantic love is over-rated. I had a series of relationships before DH but none of them matched me as well as he did. Don't forget this is the man I fell in love with in the first six months - who perhaps doesn't exist - but did for a short time.

But there is a residual person who is still there. I know underneath it all he cares deeply for me - but just shows it in a different way.

It took me years to understand that I was not faulty in some way. I still feel half a person at times. But my children are very happy. For me that's everything.

Today I saw a couple kissing in the park with a buggy. But I know that's a pipe dream for me. I guess I have accepted my lot.

When the children leave though, well, maybe then...

It’s hard.

For me, I’ve learnt that my husband shows me his love by cooking every day, bringing me coffee in the mornings, working hard etc. He’s incapable of lying and is very steadfast and loyal.

Also, two years of psychotherapy helped me. I know I’ve weighed it up and it’s been my choice.

Something I always remember is 30 years ago I babysat for a friend. It had obviously been their anniversary as there was a gushing card from the husband on the mantelpiece. I remember being so jealous that my husband didn’t do this sort of thing.

6 months later he left her for another woman.

I agree with @ChangeOver22 that romantic love can be a bit overrated.

@7eleven

Yes. If you watch Ester Perez’s talks on TED I found them very illuminating. They’re about why people are unfaithful but it’s really a discourse on romantic love.

It helped me a lot to disconnect from the idea of romantic love and see it for what it reality is. It’s such a heavy and potentially overwhelming notion.

it’s not to say we shouldn’t reach for the stars. But perhaps to be aware of the immense pressure modern society puts on us to have it all with just one person.

Thank you x

Hi All, it's interesting to see the different dynamics between male ND - female NT relationships, and male NT - female ND. As far as I know it's generally accepted that ASC presents very differently in males vs females, but I wonder how much of this is to do with societal expectations of men and women or boys and girls?

Yes "Acts of Service" seem to be very present as a form of love for ASC people. DH will do anything and everything and has a lot of energy. If we forget toilet roll, out he'll go to go and get it. Milk- off he shoots, we need an extra something - he'll be down the road before you can say please.

He really does try.

But there are some big gaps on this list.

There are some definite overlaps I would say but some striking differences.

One of the most notable so far to me with DD is that she has a vivid and vast imagination and loves to read fiction. DH could never really get into a fiction and hated books as a child. He said he just couldn't get into them at all. When he was 18 he started reading some classics. But he'd never ever ever read a fiction book for pleasure.

There are some definite overlaps I would say but some striking differences.

One of the most notable so far to me with DD is that she has a vivid and vast imagination and loves to read fiction. DH could never really get into a fiction and hated books as a child. He said he just couldn't get into them at all. When he was 18 he started reading some classics. But he'd never ever ever read a fiction book for pleasure.

^ it's the opposite way round here re the sexes so I wonder what population level data says

I was not expecting that. My anecdotal experience has always been male ASD struggles with story writing and fiction in general. Really interesting to hear it’s the other way around for you. perhaps there are no hard and fast rules. I’d be interested to see the population data too if there is some.

@ChangeOver22 thank you so much for posting that chart, I think that’s going to be so helpful and I can already see how both of us differ. Hopefully it will be a useful tool going forward as we are definitely not on the same page at the moment.

It’s hard.
For me, I’ve learnt that my husband shows me his love by cooking every day, bringing me coffee in the mornings, working hard etc. He’s incapable of lying and is very steadfast and loyal.
Also, two years of psychotherapy helped me. I know I’ve weighed it up and it’s been my choice.
Something I always remember is 30 years ago I babysat for a friend. It had obviously been their anniversary as there was a gushing card from the husband on the mantelpiece. I remember being so jealous that my husband didn’t do this sort of thing.
6 months later he left her for another woman.
I agree with @ChangeOver22 that romantic love can be a bit overrated.

Agree with this. Also, I have come to realise that I really value stability due to my own dysfunctional childhood. On balance I would also prefer to be with someone (like my dh) who is steadfast and loyal and honest. In relation to the gushing card...facebook can be a bit like this too re. anniversaries etc.

Continuing to read this thread with interest - so many things resonate.

@Villagediary Sorry to have taken a while to write this - but I wanted to have a think.

I'll try to help now- yes you're right - being out in the community and having regular interaction with people I have found very helpful.

I got involved in local politics - not any party but more trying to do positive things in the town where I am. I met so many people. I am on Twitter and find out what's going on that way. I can volunteer for whatever I feel like if I want to and often the people are very nice and sincere. Volunteering this way allows me to dip in and out. Not too much pressure.

I've also volunteered for a local charity for six months one day per week. That also introduced me to so many people. I've had a couple of local jobs also for over a year in the industry I used to work in before having DC - but very much part-time. Things didn't go too well as I was run ragged between supporting the children and trying to do a good job. But all of these things have been brilliant for my self-esteem and getting out and about.

For friendships I try not to rely on anyone too heavily. I find the expectations of being 'really good friends' and seeing someone very regularly exhausting. I like to keep a big circle of people (just like a I used to before DH) and see people every few weeks. I rarely go out in a big group if ever. It's all one to ones for a couple of hours over a cuppa in the mornings after children have gone to school. I rarely do anything in the summer holidays and this is my flashpoint - I often go downhill badly over the summer holidays. It wasn't the case when they were younger but as they've got older the holidays have got harder and harder. I feel permanently exhausted.

I met a lot of lovely Mums during DC time at school who I still keep in touch with and see from time to time as mentioned above. At the moment DC have taken up too much time to no further work for me for now but that may change in the next year or so as DS goes to secondary.

I do miss working and being valuable to society in some way. Living through your children's dreams is is not possible I don't think for me. Self-fulfillment must come outside of the family then because DH isn't going to provide it either. Coffees with nice friends are really lovely but can only go so far. So yes I see work at some point in the future as key to feeling better about myself but I'm not sure what guise it will take yet. I have no idea at all.

For a while I was a member of a sports club/gym. That helped too, I was regularly meeting people and forming a nice circle away from the Mums (I like to have lots of different social circles) but then I got an injury. Then my Mum fell ill. Life is on hold for me right now. Netflix has been a wonderful escape. I have no energy to socialise at the moment. Once my Mum is gone I may throw all this out the window and want more. I really can't say.

I think there is a difference between being creative and appreciating creativity.

DS is amazingly creative within a pretty restrictive field, DW doesn't have a creative bone in her body but revels in other people's creativity.

Changeover

Thank you for your thoughtful response, I am going to re-read it and reflect upon it. The peri-menopause is adding a lot of lethargy in terms of deciding what to do next. My youngest dc has only just started school and this first term has been peppered with appointments (for me and children including SEND appointments for one of my dc) - appointments which have been deferred for one reason or another including lockdown.

I have also been happy in my own company and seem to need a lot of this. Maybe the best thing is to let a bit of time pass and do not a lot until the dc are a bit older and the menopause actually arrives. You mentioned your life is on hold at the moment - is this due to the sadness surrounding your mum? I am so sorry you are going through this and wish you to be as okay as you possibly can be given the circumstances.

On-line support is perhaps not the same as real life support but I would struggle to find this type of support in real life. I suppose any activities I choose to do, the underpinning thing would be the people involved and the human interactions involved. I have had a very giving/caring job in the past (which didn't involve much socialising with my colleagues). I don't feel I have the energy to be giving currently so would want to think carefully about this in regard to any voluntary work. I want to have a bit of fun too and if this could be purposeful so much the better but I have learnt to dwell less on being 'purposeful'.

I think I know what you mean about intense friendships - I don't have the capacity for this either. I believe I have been in counsellor role for too long in one or two of my friendships, so maybe developing a few social circles is the way to go through interests/hobbies.

Thank you for the chart, it is very useful. This also resonates with me:

Yes "Acts of Service" seem to be very present as a form of love for ASC people. DH will do anything and everything and has a lot of energy.

Villagediary

You neatly describe the feeling of being burnt out maybe? Yes I feel the need to be alone a lot at the moment because of the grief of knowing that I'll lose my Mum soon. The last year has been such a rollercoaster of her getting better and then back into hospital with every visit leading to a lower trajectory in the downwards spiral. It has been so tiring. That plus ASD teenage DD has been extremely tiring as there have been more than a few issues over the last year. It has been so intense emotionally and physically.

When I'm drained like this I can't stomach social interaction as I'm too tired/too numb. Thank you for your kind words. I appreciate them.

I completely agree that charity work is too much sometimes - and I've found I've had to give up all my work in this area as it was taking over my life - but as a way back into society - for me it worked for a time. Yes 'giving' is something we already do and it's enough. I would also like to find something more fun - but I'm not sure what.

I've found going on holiday with the children by myself has been wonderful. No stress at all, unlike when we go with DH. This has been a lot of fun for us.

so maybe developing a few social circles is the way to go through interests/hobbies

yes, this sounds like a great idea. I did this with my sportsclub/gym and it worked very nicely for a while too.

Honestly, finding stability and fun - that's hard as it feels like a moving target what with outside life - like covid and the inside life - like my Mum falling ill, changing as the years pass. It's very hard to keep an even keel.

I also can't cope the draining friends and being the giver/counsellor either! Definitely withdraw and protect yourself from the energy-vampires. We don't have much for ourselves as things stand!

I wish you all the very best with trying to find your best life.

Changeover

Day by day I guess with your lovely mum. It sounds as if she has been a rock for you over the years.

It's great that you are enjoying your holidays with your children. I think your children are teens from what you have said or there abouts. My children are still young (under 10 but at school) plus SEN so I don't get much pleasure from holidays currently - it all seems like hard work!

You mentioned burnout and this really resonated with me. I think this is how I feel to a large extent. I've decided to lift as much pressure off me as I can (not enter into any voluntary work for example) and try to re-energise over this next year. I had Covid in May and if I'm honest, I don't think I've 100% recovered from that either.

My dh is very helpful on a practical level but I still feel as if I'm at the helm in terms of organising everything (if I ask him to do something, usually he is more than happy to help such as taking the children to the park, cooking meals - he is helpful in so many ways physically) but it does feel like the mental/emotional load stops at my door and we don't have any extended family so zero support from outside (so much for the village helping to raise children!). This was largely why I stepped back from my job, so glad I'm out of it now. One huge change from the peri-menopause is that I no longer feel the drive to please and I am being so much kinder to myself these days. I like this feeling and I'm going to concentrate on that over the coming months.

Hope I haven't de-railed the thread, it seems to have gone a bit quiet. How is everyone else doing? Has the chart changeover posted really resonated?

@ChangeOver22 Firstly I’m very sorry to hear about your mum. Your posts really resonate with me and it sounds like we are in a similar situation. I’ve been with DH over 20 years, I have thought about leaving many times but I have chosen to stay for my DC. DH is fundamentally a good man, very good at his job, earns good money, intelligent, very driven, works hard etc. But I have had years of not having any of my emotional needs met. I have survived because of close friends who I can confide it and who give me the emotional support I need.

My mum was also my rock but unfortunately she has had a few years of ill health and now late stage dementia and hasn’t got very long left to live. DH has offered me practically zero support during any of this time when I needed it, but I genuinely believe he wasn’t being cruel he just didn’t know how to support me at all and I was very resentful for a time but have now accepted his lack of support was him not being able to understand my needs. I have also told him how hurt I have been when he hasn’t been there for me which he has since apologised for.

I agree when the DCs were little that’s when I also felt the loneliest, I have literally done all the parenting over the years mainly by myself which has been hard. My DCs are older teenagers now and that’s brought other issues with DH as he clashes with them because of his very rigid thinking of how they should behave.

I feel like when he isn’t around things are definitely easier and lighter but I’m under no illusion had I split when the DCs were younger our life wouldn’t have been a bed of roses either as DS is autistic and I wanted to keep as much stability for him as possible. So like you I’ve chosen to put my own happiness on a back burner for the sake of the DCs happiness and to make sure they’ve had a comfortable life. Only time will tell if I’ve done the right thing.

I’ve no idea if when the DCs have left home our marriage will continue or if I will have the energy to start a new life for myself. I’m not desperately unhappy and DH is a good man and that’s why I’ve stayed. I don’t think I could have survived the marriage though if I hadn’t got good friends who have offered me the emotional support I don’t get in my marriage so for me that’s what’s kept me going.

I've followed this thread on and off since it started. Finally ready to share my story.

Married my husband in a whirlwind romance type situation. I found him honest, intelligent, self-aware and incredibly confident. We had issues throughout or marriage- differences in communication, his family having a major hold over him, etc. and would discuss things and move forward. Things would be fine and then we'd have another disagreement and the cycle would begin again. I've always suspected he's had either ASD, ADHD or both and shared this openly with him and he agreed. However, on our own, we rubbed along nicely with a few ups and downs here and there. It was when the children came along that he withdrew completely- became mean and nasty (more likely due to stress and being overwhelmed) and started upping the ante re: the woe is me narrative. We're due to separate (he's looking for a place of his own) but I'm left feeling broken. I've supported him through everything, made certain situations easy for him so he wasn't overwhelmed by the noise, etc. and made our home a functional place where everything has a home, etc. I've worked hard on creating routines for us all so we can cope with having very young children while we both work, etc. and all I get from him a long litany of insults and reasons why I've ruined his life. I can't believe I didn't call time on our relationship before the kids came along. Now I have him for life or until the children grow up and leave home. I'm feeling really lost atm and don't know what's worse- him being in my life or being a single parent (with all the challenges that entails).

He's awaiting a referral for an ASD assessment atm. Has classified himself as being depressed and reported me to social services for abusing him. I've had enough.

A very thoughtful post by Endlesstea here Link.

I'm my husband's second wife. So he had been through the marriage thing before. And you'd think would know what to expect. But it's been one massive struggle after another. I knew he had Aspergers not long after we first met online. I gather a lot of people mask until they move in together or get married then things change. We've had issues since quite early on but I had so much hope that it would work out.

I’m my (STBX)H’s second wife too. Two very short marriages with children.

He’s waiting to be assessed for ASD but has started using this an excuse for literally anything that’s convenient to him. From my own perspective, I think there are aspects of his behaviour that being aware of ASD and making allowances might be appropriate for. But there are most definitely others where it’s clear that he simply doesn’t care or want to change. Or even where it’s clear that he’s set out to hurt me (and even to be extremely sneaky about it). That’s definitely not ASD - ASD does not (for example) make you decide that you’ll wait til SMP goes to zero, open up a new bank account (overtly lie about why you’ve done so!), have you salary paid into it and then financially abuse someone. Maybe ASD might explain some of the rigidity about whose money it is or whatever, but the sneakiness about it all makes it clear it was a premeditated action he knew would harm me. And then there’s the carefully cultivated poor victim act to cast me as the villain of the piece.

He did mask very effectively until we were married, living together and had a baby on the way, aided by the background drama related to his first wife. It was easy to see how they were fundamentally unsuited and such like. Her objectively crap behaviour seemed largely inexplicable.

The mask most definitely slipped during my pregnancy. And even more so afterwards. It was like he decided I just had to put up with things. And the issues escalated from
there. I can totally sympathise with you having just had enough @stbew. Especially where he’s playing the victim and taking action to hurt you. I’m sorry you’ve had to go through all that.

My previous partner (who I was with for over a decade) probably also has undiagnosed ASD. It did make him tough to live with in various ways but not in the way I’ve experienced with my STBXH. It’s completely different kind of thing. A lot of what people describe in their relationships with ASD partners resonates with that experience. I think I’ve come to the conclusion that, with STBXH, the issue isn’t necessarily ASD; it’s that he’s fundamentally just not a very nice person at all. No amount of being understanding about ASD is going to fix that.

I was going to say… I agree that you’d think he’d learn from the first failed marriage. But no.

What I have come to realise is that, while some of his ex’s behaviour is actually her having a set of personal values I just cannot get on board with, some of her behaviour I can now see as being the result of having to deal with the man we both were silly enough to marry. Some of it makes sense to me now.

Some of it is still unfathomable though. And, in some ways, I have concluded that the pair of them were probably more suited to each other than he and I are. But he was able to recognise that I wouldn’t be on board with (for example) attitudes to seeing their children that were based almost entirely on both of them working out how to maximise their time away from the children while ensuring the financial transfers were as minimal (in his case as the payer)/maximal (for her as the receiver) as they could negotiate. So he hid that aspect of himself and made it look like it was just her attitude that I found objectionable. Turns out, they’re as bad as each other.