Married to someone with Asperger's/ASC: support thread 6

[Daftasabroom]

New thread, and as previously:

This thread is for partners seeking to understand the dynamics of their relationship with someone with ASD. It is a support thread, and a safe space to have a bit of a rant. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner. (ASD partners welcome to lurk or pop in, but please don't argue with other posters and tell them they are wrong).

Yes this resonates with me. Although DH sometimes does grocery shopping I have to write the list and plan meals, he often comes back and dumps the bags in the kitchen for me to put away. He often doesn't get everything on the list but doesn't tell me, I sometimes ask him if he got everything and he'll say he has for me to find out at a crucial time that in fact he didn't get everything- he doesn't seem to see that it's important to get everything and that's why I wrote it on the list and he doesn't see his part in this ie discussing it with me/getting it from somewhere else and will suggest that I'm never satisfied

PS The articles are written as if the wife is NT and the husband is ND but I'd guess also apply to lesbian/gay couples or NT husbands with ND wives.

So frustrating @Anotherpairofshoes !

'It is unquestionably a challenge to have emotional reciprocity in a marriage when one partner intrinsically struggles with social awareness, relationship skills, affect congruence, and emotional regulation.

However, it is not impossible for improvement to be made. The volume of helping professionals in the field of autism, and the success that is achieved with repetition and engagement, is evidence that skills can be built and strategies employed.

It takes a willing partner to do the very hard work of learning and implementing strategies with his wife in a manner that better meets her neurological needs.

It IS difficult to build skills that are not intuitive, and to engage in interaction that is often non-preferred.

Yet it is a reciprocal endeavor. She, too, has largely existed outside of preference for the majority of the marriage.

Both partners must meet within a middle path to have some hope for a measure of contentment.'

I guess if you've got to the point of adversial as per the article then its too late for counselling as that will be met with scorn and disengagement.

I suppose perhaps (and this may well appease some of the haters) if you are late diagnosed you may not be diagnosed until you're in the situation of the article (certainly rings true for me) and my ex isn't prepared to change as it was me being horrible and unreasonable even in the face of evidence. So it's more a symptom of late diagnosis.

Where as if you know you are Autistic then you can start from a better place with a NT person who understands from the get go.
I know I'd have made tons of different decisions if I'd have known about my adhd. I don't have many regrets but it's certainly something I reflect on.
I'm actually quite confident my Autistic DC will have a different experience. They told me last week they were proud of being Autistic and they wished their friend (whose father is against 'a label' ) could get to that point too as they are struggling. I notice other children can be accommodating too (not always!)
It's a shame we can't hear from some younger people on here as I'm guessing most of us are middle aged.

This is so accurate.

You need to add there the difficulty in getting an assessment unless you are happy to pay (Aka you are wealthy enough to pay).
Not all children with autism get a diagnosis for the simple reason that many children mask well enough at school and CAHMS tends to ignore parents experience in favour if they teachers. Like the teacher who said ds had no issue at all despite spending most of his breaks on his own because he couldn’t find a way to join in (reported by his sibling too….)

He often doesn't get everything on the list but doesn't tell me

There has to be a written list even if it's one item long or else it may well not be bought. I have the opposite problem with DH - he came home with a yellowing, slightly soft cucumber from Sainsbury's. He bought it because "cucumber" was on the list so he felt he had to get it (it shouldn't even have been on the shelf) and it was the only one there. I now often write something like "cucumber, firm at both ends, or don't get one at all".

So it's more a symptom of late diagnosis.

Couldn't agree more, changemyname. Late diagnosis must surely be a major factor for all of us in partnerships with those in their 40s and above, possibly 30s too. It will be interesting to see if the incidence of struggles like ours decreases in the coming years because (a) more will be diagnosed young and (b) more relationships will start with the diagnosis already known (and skills learned at a younger age) and already shared with the partner.

Whatever I learn in my 50s (new language, for example) is way harder than in my 20s or even 30s. I have to hear a new word in the language countless more times before I have a chance to remember it reliably. It's a good insight to me into how hard it would be to learn new social skills at this age which are even less tangible than foreign words.

Given so many of you have ADHD, have you ever considered that your behaviour - obviously unintentionally - may well be equally problematic in your marriage? I understand that some ADHD people can be very difficult partners. For example I found this:

If your relationship is impacted by ADHD, you may see any of the following patterns:

Chronic nagging and/or anger
Distribution of household tasks is wildly uneven
One spouse plays the role of always being responsible (a "parent" role) while the other is consistently inconsistent or irresponsible (a "child" role)
Your courtship was amazing and you couldn't get enough of each other, now one partner just isn't paying attention at all
You argue all the time, even over stupid things
One partner doesn't seem to remember agreements well or is tuned out
One partner has great trouble following through on things that have been agreed to
Sexual relationship has broken down

Source: www.verywellmind.com/adhd-and-its-effect-in-marriage-20380

I’m sure many ADHD people make lovely partners, as do many ASD people - but when both exist within a marriage surely it’s going to make it very difficult for some? perhaps it’s a bit harsh putting all the blame on the ASD partner?

So much of this resonates. I have a child awaiting ASD and ADHD assessment. DH is undiagnosed ASD. I've been referred for ADHD assessment.

I want to leave but then I don't. I can't do this for the rest of my life. DC needs me to advocate, particularly with DH.
He doesn't understand DC and their needs. He winds them up for no reason. He's stern and cross all the time and shouts too much. It gets him nowhere and the situation always escalates.

I'm no perfect parent or spouse. I forget everything, I'm peri menopausal. I get annoyed and shout occasionally but I can always calm DC. Most arguments are at bedtime and I must have said 1000 times that an upset/overwhelmed/stressed child won't be able to sleep. Nothing changes.

So I'll stay for now. Maybe til DC leaves primary school,or are more self sufficient, or can self soothe.

On paper DH more than pulls his weight in the house. Practically he's great. Emotionally he is unavailable.
Affection is routine, spontaneity is impossible, conversation is forced.

If I give him instructions it has to be written down or no more than one thing at a time. I have to define the rules and boundaries.
We never have sex. I have no interest. It's only what I have taught him, always the same, and I'm fed up of faking

I reckon, for me (not generalising) it’s the emotionally unavailable aspect that upsets me the most.

I’m very confused that you think I’m not genuine - surely it’s perfectly reasonably to raise the ADHD issue when so many posters have an ADHD diagnosis?

Indeed, just after my last post, another poster with ADHD has mentioned some issues which align with those in the source I referenced.

I’m not sure what guidelines I’m breaking given I am not being rude, generalising about ADHD, attacking any posters personally. I actually thought it might even be helpful?

I think there are some reasons why we have chosen to stay when others would have left years and years ago.
Maybe ADHD is a reason (I dint know enough about it to say so). Maybe it’s been raised in a family that was emotionally immature (I was), co dependent etc….

I dint think that pitching one partner against the other is helpful. I mean you could argue that it’s awful to live with me because DH has basically become my carer due to my chronic illness. Does it mean it’s ok for him to give me the silent treatment? What the heck.

Same with any other condition, past trauma etc…. Because we ALL have something that could be considered hard to live with. The difference I think is the lack of self awareness I find in DH. And the black and white thinking that means he feels he us always right.

Women with adhd are often extremely well organised and chronic people pleasers. There very good resources on how ADHD presents in women. Often also overachievers. So in fact we probably pick up the slack very easily before we notice that we are. So maybe initially we are ok abd then years down the line we start questioning this all. But I think lots of wives are like this. It's easy to support a partner when you're childfree because it's not a lot of work...after children especially ND as its hereditary so likely one child is ND is when it comes unstuck. It's hard enough with a ND child and no ND parent. Although these days I rarely meet a family where one parent of ND isn't also ND they may not realise that's all. Even the NHS are waking up to that.

Incredibly well put. ...

I made the same point earlier in the thread that there is a specific pattern that is maybe more likely to emerge in an ADHD / ASD marriage. I think the biggest difference is that post-diagnosis I have much greater self-awareness about my behaviour and have actively taken steps to make changes. But sometimes the ASD partner is less able to observe their own behaviour or read the emotional impact it has on their partner. They simply don't see it or have a bizarre certainty that they are always right. That is the case with my DH even though he is actually a decent man. It didn't stop the death by a thousand cuts and the feeling of total invisibility in my own life.

Things are improving but as usual it's because I'm doing the self-awareness and emotional lifting for both of us. And it would be easier to do this if he actually saw and acknowledged it but he doesn't because it just isn't within his frame of reference. It doesn't exist to him and then he has the cheek to tell me I'm doing nothing!

Yes to give an example: last night DH came home. Bad mood because his journey back home had been severely disrupted.

Barely said a word to the children, as usual. Then went to DD and said "were you on time at school today".

That's the first thing he said to a child who has difficulty with executive functioning and who struggles with time management.

She tried very hard this term not to be late and has done really well.

And yet DH just goes in for what to a NT person and even a person with ASC feels like "the kill".

So she lashes out at him and says why are you asking me that. I've been on time all this week and I've only been back two days.

He also questioned me as to why I spent £100 on something. I said to him I didn't need to explain and that he should trust me. But he wouldn't let it go. He had to know why it had been £100 and not less.

He is in the 1%. I don't ask him how he spends his money. But he just had to know. Once he found out why I'd had to spend more he accepted it and agreed it was right. But why did he need to ask in the first place?

We have this circle that goes round and round. Him always suspecting that people have made mistakes, have got things wrong. He has to know. He can't trust that things are OK.

Then when I explain to him that it's not the best way to bond with your child, to assume the worst and ask such a direct question - that his negative assumptions may be hurtful he goes on the defence.

"I can't say anything without being attacked. OK I'll just not talk at all".

Why can't he see that when he spends so little time with the children, coming in with negative assumptions about what they may have done wrong is hurtful.

And that for me, being questioned about how I spend money is hurtful. I trust him, why doesn't he trust me?

And as for ADHD - saying this pushes back the relationship difficulty into their field and it's not all ASD I disagree.

People with ADHD expect and want and need emotional recipriocity. It's the lack of this that affects everyone who lives in a relationship with someone who doesn't find this comes naturally to them. You'll always be wanting more.

I think people with ADHD have some empathy with ASD and some things overlap in some areas. We may be deeper thinkers, naturally bright and curious with a different way of seeing the world. I can see how the two would be attracted. The order of the ASD person is attractive to the ADHD person. And the ADHD person offers vibrancy and spontaneity that the ASD person has difficulty embracing.

All just conjecture.

I can't say anything without being attacked. OK I'll just not talk at all

Oh my god, this!
This is what he says! He’ll be saying something that terrifies DS, I’ll have told him repeatedly not to and why. He’ll do it again and I’ll remind him why he shouldn’t and he’ll get really angry and start shouting, ‘You never let me say anything’’.

Its the hyperbole, the ridiculous hyperbole! It drives me mad!

Yes!
So much this!

OK I'll just not talk at all

Increasingly every day, I just let DW say what she has to say without comment from me.

That too! Fucking pathetic at times

Dh has solved the problem by not talking.
Then wonders why I’m upset when he is taking major decisions (such as moving house) Wo talking to me about it first….

My ex doesn't make ANY decisions but reserves the right to be angry about decisions made in the silence. Its a passive aggressive move.

As I'm not fully free of her..I just state now- 'this is happening. If you don't like it/want to do that then you need to say now or it goes ahead or provide an alternative now.

I'm done accommodating

Last week she was faffing around and wouldn't say what time she was coming by to get the dc. It suited me to drive them over so I did so she had to open her door and receive them (at the agreed time). I've wasted years, literal years waiting around for her (including faffing every time we left the house). I always factored an extra 45 minutes into every leaving time.
I also said 'if you can't stick to the arrangement they are not coming at all'. She didn't so they didn't. It's natural consequences- similar to dealing with a 14 year old! This is someone who manages a team of highly paid project management consultants yet I was reminding her to bring a coat for DC on a winters day out.