Married to someone with Asperger's/ASC: support thread 6

[Daftasabroom]

New thread, and as previously:

This thread is for partners seeking to understand the dynamics of their relationship with someone with ASD. It is a support thread, and a safe space to have a bit of a rant. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner. (ASD partners welcome to lurk or pop in, but please don't argue with other posters and tell them they are wrong).

My husband was told he was high functioning when he was diagnosed.

Thank you
He is having counselling but so far not helping. After much research I have started a floradix magnesium supplement and I have noticed a slight improvement with his moods and settling on a night . Ohhh the joys of peri are here also 😆😢 it's been a difficult few years with my own hormones🙄 ive also noticed my traits have got much more erratic since peri symptoms started. Mainly my sensory and anxiety issues. Someone asked earlier in the thread if autistic traits etc if it can worsen as get older, in my own experience I would say yes.

I find it interesting and like to read people's views. If it upset me personally in any way I would just scroll on. I honestly do understand how hard it can be. But if I can help in any way please ask x

@Regretthisfish that makes complete sense and I think my use of language is down to the country in which I live, my diagnosis being lost on translation and my old school / sometimes politically incorrect psychiatrist (believe me, she does impressions of other patients during our sessions..).

So is it also wrong to call an autistic person severe if we cannot say mild? Are they low functioning (as opposed to high functioning?)

Unless the diagnoses have changed since we last spoke to the specialists a person can have a diagnosis of high, or low functioning ASD.

I think getting stuck into someone for describing, say, the latter as 'mild' is frankly unnecessary and making far too much of a semantic distinction.

@TomPinch I agree, and it has had my high functioning autistic brain stressing far too much over this for the past hour!

Don't take it personally. It's not your issue!

I try to help people, I try to show kindness but it is never enough. so think what you like of me (which is not much I know).

Try to listen to people instead of telling them they are wrong. If you cannot understand that your point of view is not de facto the correct one just because it is yours, then best say nothing at all.

Walking into the arena and putting a hard hat on….

re mild autism…

About 10 years ago, the DSM (I think) changed the way it defined autism. When before you had high functioning autism and severe/low functioning autism, it all became autism and issues with language for example were separated as a different issue. So when someone was before diagnosed with severe autism, unable to communicate etc… now they have autism AND a language issue AND maybe a developmental issue.
From one country to the next, professionals have or haven’t adopted this criteria. France (I’m French living in the U.K.) tends to be VERY slow and traditionalist. So I’m not surprised that the psychiatrist following @MomentOfCalm is talking about ‘the mild end’ of autism. I mean only 15 years ago, a friend of mine was went to see a psychologist because her son was autistic (that’s the refrigerator mother concept - unsurprisingly it didn’t help her son…..). France is the same in many other issues such as recognising ME or atm LC.
In the U.K. though, this was adopted quite quickly, in particular by patients groups, to emphasise that autism IS severely affecting people even when they are still able to hold in a job etc…. which is @StopHateAgainstAutisticPeople position.

Fwiw seeing the effect autism has on relationships in this thread, I’d say that that even people who can hold jobs and look ok from the outside have major struggles of their own. I know that’s pretty clear for my dh.

I think where I disagree with a lot of autism campaigners is that NT aren’t making any/enough effort to adjust to ASD.
Having a disability myself, I know no one will get the way my illness is affecting me. Even people who properly try to understand dont get it. So I’m pretty sure I didn’t get how autism is affecting my dh just like he doesn’t get how ME affecting my life. REGARDLESS of how much I am trying to get autism/adjust to it/make allowances/change the way I communicate etc…. (The opposite is true too - I don’t believe that autistic people will ever get what it means to be NT, or to try and adjust living with someone on the spectrum). It’s not a failure of anyone to understand or make the effort. It’s just that the experience of living with that particular condition isn’t something you can get unless you are living it imo.

that’s is what makes our lives very hard.

I would urge you to consider that your repeated conduct on these threads is actually preventing real, actual people with real lives - and autistic people they love - from discussing the issues that make their lives very hard.

The way you do it - and this is my own personal comment on your behaviour on this thread, not some statement claim to be objectively true - feels a lot like the way I’ve described some of the issues I’ve had with my husband. It feels relentless. And also that you simply are not willing to listen to people on these threads or consider that they may see things very differently from you.

You have your agenda. And absolutely I don’t think autistic people should be hated or marginalised. But it’s simply not fair to use this thread as the venue for this agenda. Again my opinion and feelings about this.

This thread is not full of hate for autistic people. It IS full of frustrations and people seeking support as they find ways to live more effectively with people they love dearly.

Btw what I mean by long post is that basically both @MomentOfCalm and @StopHateAgainstAutisticPeople are right in their own way….

Where in the world you get your diagnosis and when you got it will have a major influence on what having an autism diagnosis ‘means’ and what you have been told.

If you are interested, head towards Twitter.

There’s a big autistic community on there and @StopHateAgainstAutisticPeople would fit very well there.

I am often dipping in an out of there, reading some of the threads because they are a window into how some autistic people think (not all blabla…). How they think that NT are wrong because they can’t speak straight, whatever they say always has a hidden message, they are making eye contact why??? and why on Earth would you want to do some small talk.

In small doses, it has helped me understand some of DH reaction. And some of dc2 too.

I've been on MN for eons. Regularly leave and come back..I've had to come back as this thread has got really interesting (it always was) and I wanted to come back on and tell you.. @Daftasabroom may remember me from last year (I'm a woman with adhd with Autustic dc and a now ex Autistic DW)
2 things have really helped me on MN. This thread and the Stately homes one. It got me through the pandemic as in real life im pretty lonely except dc and work. My ex and some difficult years with Dc reduced friends to near zero. My family are useless. My DM is (undiagnosed but comorbidities) Autistic and my childhood was quite challenging. She's still challenging. My DB too.
I was married for 20yrs. It was extremely lonely i made every decision on my own. Every one. Practical too. But my DM trained me for this. Its all i knew. My ADHD (diagnosed a few years ago just like DW with ASC) coupled with an emotionally neglected childhood made me unable to see this in a partner. My expectations were low. My ex is very difficult (bloody hell the divorce, house sale, dc contact everything was extremely difficult!). She's still difficult now. But the relief of not living with her is immense. She's still making things difficult and also still quite dependent too. One minute shouting at me, next asking for random help. But I'm slowly easing her away. She's rubbish with DC and after fighting for 50/50 doesn't even do the days she's meant to because cant cope. It's now 80/20 at most.
What I've realised is. She's not just Autistic but due to a life of undiagnosed existence coupled with a complex childhood I'm quite convinced (unofficially back up by her doctor when in crisis) that she has Borderline personality disorder. They're frequently misdiagnosed as each other. But I do wonder if for many people on here there is complex trauma going on.
I've noticed several old friends are likely Autistic (my DC is and so very involved with Autistic people). I'm surrounded by ND people. Loads do have successful relationships because they're well matched with similar expectations.
As I decompress, work on my own adhd and move the kids onto this new phase (which I did mainly for them..they're already so much happier, but the time at exs for them is tough as she can barely parent really..never done it..and her anxiousness rubs off on them and is unsettling for ASC DC.) I realise now my ex isn't just Autistic but has quite complex mental health issues and is also not actually a very nice person although was once. I'm sad for myself i couldn't see it sooner. I deserved better and had I not had my own issues and a crap family would have seen it sooner. But I'm only 50 so hopefully I'll have some more years to live my life. I hope so.
To those wondering should they stay. Please don't. My ex ruled our house with her moods and controlling behaviour. It's no way to live. Even my difficult ASC DC is thriving without it. I'm so thankful for this thread. And no one is more of an advocate for ND than me. My DC are thriving and being brought up to understand their differences and be celebrated. I'm hopeful they won't have complex trauma. But being divorced was for me a step to supporting that.

Oh and Autistic DM couldnt engage with my divorce. Hasn't spoken to me for over 9 months. She can't cope with emotions or problems or anything that isn't centred on her. Has a pattern of doing this. I honestly don't know why this is. If it is ASC, trauma or a personality disorder or simply a product of her own upbringing but it was honestly the loneliest thing even though I should be by age 50 expecting nothing. It's still hurtful and still a shock when it happens. We always expect more or hope for more. All I can do is work extra hard at being the best DM I can be for my own DC.

i just wanted to pop on here and respond to @Changemyname1000x
theres so much going on I can’t write it all out but 2 months ago told dh I want to separate and it has been so so difficult. He won’t accept it, the suicide threats have ramped up last few days. I know I’m looking at a future similar to you with your ex DW being difficult about everything house contact etc. he too keeps saying about kids 50/50 yet can’t cope with them or parent them. Told me few days ago they are meaningless to him without me, which broke my heart.
what you said about realising there were mental health issues and other things at play just really resonated with me. I’m scared of what’s to come and scared he won’t let me go. It’s like living with jeckyll and Hyde at the moment his moods are so up and down. He told me 4-5 times yesterday on way back from an (awful) holiday abroad booked before all this, that he’d get us back home and then would be ending it all. In between was chatting normally about things including future events, then at one point had a go at me for not being chatty with him. It’s so so exhausting and I’m so glad to be home, but wonder if I’ll ever get out.

anyway sorry to derail but I lurk a bit on this thread and related to the last post

I would urge you to consider that your repeated conduct on these threads is actually preventing real, actual people with real lives - and autistic people they love - from discussing the issues that make their lives very hard.

It may be shocking to you but autistic people are real people and have real lives, too.

I think getting stuck into someone for describing, say, the latter as 'mild' is frankly unnecessary and making far too much of a semantic distinction.

No, it isn't. Because you're talking about how you are affected by it. People who are able to mask actually suffer a great deal of mental health damage from that on top of the issues their autism causes already. So someone appearing more "normal" or "high functioning" or having a "mild" condition from your persoective shows nothing about how hard things are for them.

It's not semantics. The DMV defines the criteria for who is or isn't autistic. There is no "slightly autistic" or criteria for "mild" autism. It does not exist and any decent consultant would never have told anybody that in recent years. Maybe you need a new consultant if they are still perpetuating unscientific nonsense. Some people have learning difficulties or other difficulties and autism. That doesn't make them "more autistic". It's nonsense and mumsnet need to stop letting this nonsense stand.

This thread is not full of hate for autistic people. It IS full of frustrations and people seeking support as they find ways to live more effectively with people they love dearly.

Many of whom haven't even been diagnosed with autism. So many of you are stigmatising a whole group of people by blaming shitty behaviour that has nothing to do with autism on autism even though the people you speak about aren't necessarily autistic, and even if they are their autism doesn't explain that shitty behaviour.

It's disgusting that this has been allowed to go on for as long as it has and I hope it stops soon.

Perhaps start a thread instead about having shitty partners, given that most of what you all say has nothing to do with autism and most autistic people are nothing like you describe. In fact on the general relationships threads a lot of this behaviour is described daily. So make a support thread for people who have shit partners and decide to stay with them and stop stigmatising austistic people with zero evidence that autistic people have the characteristics you describe in any greater proportion than NT people. And stop witj your fake armchair diagnoses.

They are autistic.

It's not complicated.

For anyone over the age of 30, they may well have had to 'self diagnose' because childhood diagnosis wasn't an option.

Doesn't stop them going to get a diagnosis now.

If they choose not to then you have no idea whether they are autistic of not, presuming you are not a professional in this area so can diagnose it yourself?

Absolutely right. All of it.

I think with these abhorrent threads having been reported to mumsnet so many times, and still left here in spite of the Equality Act, and even the thread complaining directly to mumsnet about the disability bashing (including these threads) having now been removed for them to "consider" (you can bet it will not be reinstated with answers provided to those who asked for them) the only choice left is for people with disabilities en masse to come to these threads daily and call them out every single time over and over and over again like this until mumsnet finally stop it.

What is autism or not is not about your "view".

Yeah. I've had NT people do this to me.

Again. What has this to do with autism? Many, many autistic people are gentle souls and extremely empathetic. Many NT people are arseholes and spiteful and don't care how anyone else feels.

All the people here who need relationship advice (which to be honest in many cases seems to be obviously LTB) need support. Just stop soreading false stereotypes abour autistic people while you discuss you relationships that you need to leave.

Sorry your partners are arseholes. Whether they are autistic of not has nothing to do with their arsehole credentials. It might be easier for you to believe that's why they are arseholes. But the arsehole venn diagram will overlap with both autistic and non-autistic people as it would with any other characteristic. Arseholes are everywhere unfortunately so please, please just stop now with these awful threads. It's gone on long enough.

I see two things on this thread:

1. A group of people engaging in good faith seeking support. This includes a lot of neurodivergent folk with a mix of ADHD and autism who are trying to find support and answers or trying to help people understand.

1. A miniscule number of posters who come here to tell us how hateful we all are and ironically effectively stigmatise THEMSELVES by being so utterly out of tune and hostile on what is generally an incredibly compassionate and supportive thread. This includes shouting down other posters with autism for daring to have different viewpoints and presumably 'doing autism wrong' because they don't agree with these self-appointed high priests of autism.

And stop mocking people for not yet being diagnosed. Everyone was undiagnosed at one time or another. How on earth did YOU get diagnosed? Unless you fell out of your mother's womb holding a diagnosis letter, you at one time either self-diagnosed or were gently 'diagnosed' by someone who referred you to an expert for formal diagnosis. Some people want that diagnosis and others don't for all sorts of reasons, including a lack of self-awareness.

Ps: this thread is full of people saying 'Actually that's nothing to do with autism it's abuse!' I've made several such posts myself.

I’m not sure it can be a ‘false stereotype’ when so many posters experience the same behaviours?