Married to someone with Asperger's/ASC: support thread 6

[Daftasabroom]

New thread, and as previously:

This thread is for partners seeking to understand the dynamics of their relationship with someone with ASD. It is a support thread, and a safe space to have a bit of a rant. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner. (ASD partners welcome to lurk or pop in, but please don't argue with other posters and tell them they are wrong).

I think this thread is giving many people a great outlet and support. The very fact that we can identify so much with what each other posts suggests to me how real it is.

It is not hateful, it is not illegal. It is not bad. That some people don’t like it is inevitable. I would choose not to read a post titled ‘Come back Bojo’. I deny the accusation of ableism. Shouting it loudly doesn’t make it true.

Re being devalued.

I found that. And I also found that VERY SLOWLY DH learnt that actually he just cannot judge someone on what their interests are. They might not be what he likes but it doesn’t mean that it’s lesser than.
just as well he learnt because it so happens dc1 is going to Uni doing a subject completely different than what he (and initially I) did. A few years before, he would have sort of ridiculed dc1 for his choice, that wasn’t a real job or a real degree etc….

But that attitude also affected his outlook on health. More precisely, it took him years to actually acknowledge I am ill and disabled.

And tbh this is also why all the talk about this thread being ableist is grating for me. Because being autistic and expecting others to adjust to your disability actually doesn’t mean that that (ASD) person isn’t going to be ableist themselves… Both because of internalised ableism and because of some rigidity in the thought process. As in ‘you don’t look physically disabled therefore you can’t be physically disabled’ type of attitude.
That was pretty fucked up and hurtful because I had to deal BOTH with my own disability and being ignored (ableism) whilst allegedly also allowing for some leeway because of his own disability…..

(fwiw things changed when 1- DH started to wfh and actually saw me collapsed in the armchair for most if the day so it because real rather than me making a fuss out of nothing, 2- I stopped work due to another relapse, 3- he talked to his mum who automatically believed me. Note that nothing I told him made any difference)

The thing I'm having to weigh up now is what staying in my marriage is costing me and just how much things can improve. It's really difficult. I love my husband and I have reason to believe he loves me but it's in his way, which is very different from how I would choose to be loved.

This thread has really helped me consider all this and be more fair and recognise the ways in which he shows his love. It's just that I'm not sure either of us love each other in the ways we need to be shown love. I'm tired of having to ask for physical affection for example and it seeming like some enormous chore to him. It's just not important to him but sometimes I feel like I'm slowly dying without it. Like a plant that never gets watered.

@AsterixInEngland My needs were not acknowledged at all, often they have been dismissed because he didn’t see why I was struggling therefore it wasn’t true
**
In spades, when I asked DW why she no longer told me she loved me, her reply was that since we were married she shouldn't have to. When I told her that I needed to hear it said I was told that she wouldn't be with me if she didn't love me.

Hullo, just found this thread. My H was diagnosed with autism a few weeks ago. From looking at this thread I can really identify with the comments, especially the loneliness. It is so, so lonely. I am just invisible to my H as a person. He cannot understand my perspective, feelings, emotions, ambitions, dreams, nothing. I only exist in terms of what I mean to him and how I make him feel.

I am exhausted from having to plan and organise everything. And then he complains about me organising him, but if I don't, nothing gets done. He has very little common sense or ability to think around a task. We both work. I am just so exhausted by the emotional and physical drain of this.

I am exhausted, and I think a little traumatised, by his emotional deregulation.

As PP said, having kids has really brought his difficulties to the fore. They only appeared occasionally prior to that, and I failed to see them as red flags. I saw them as aberrations. They are not aberrations. They are who he is.

I found one website which outlined what autistic partners may be like in a relationship and it made so much sense of how he is. I did not find the ones written by autism organisations helpful. I felt they expected me to be a sacrificial lamb to his needs.

Does anyone have any suggestions of resources for how to get along in a relationship with someone with autism? How to talk to them? How to get them to co-operate? Just saying things plainly and simply does not work. The rigid and inflexible thinking means he just keeps doing things his way, no matter how many times, and for how many years, it does not work. It also means I can never discuss a solution to a problem, as he will just keep repeating his one fixed point, over and over again. Is there any sort of specialist counselling, communication counselling or anything like that. I do not want to get our marriage on track -that's gone - but I do want to be able to co-parent and run a household peaceably and fairly.

I would be so grateful for any pointers!

I don’t think I’ve been able to make it work. The marriage I have now is nothing like I expected a marriage to look like. In many ways it is not a marriage, or at least not in the conventional sense.

ive had to accept that DH will not change. He won’t start having a chat with me. He won’t communicate what he is or isn’t doing (eg at the WE). And I am not expecting him to actually take my needs into account unless he has somehow decided that those needs are worthy.

We live in effect what are very separate life (even if from the outside it doesn’t look like it. He WFH and I’m close to housebound nowadays so we look ‘together’ most if the time iyswim)

He does what he wants. I’ve learnt to say NO when those plans are affecting me too negatively. Otherwise, he is happiest when he can indulge in his hobbies the way he wants. Gone are the days when we had an argument about him booking something on one of our dc’s b’day and he refused to move his plans. (Helped by the fact the dcs are nearly adults too!)

Im planning my days and weekends for myself. I’m learning to adjust both to my illness and to have a life of my own again. It would have been easier if I had someone who had my back. But a hell of a lot of men just leave when their dwife gets disabled anyway so 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

Ive given up on communicating. As you said, it doesn’t work.
The only thing that worked for me is to say NO (or say nothing and then not doing whatever is an issue). No discussion. No argument. No trying to convince him.

Oh and a lot of counselling for myself. Ongoing.

Thanks @AsterixInEngland Me and H live separate lives too. Its crap though, when I have had a bad day or going through something tough, and knowing I have a husband but I won't tell him about it. TBF, he would listen, but I know he does not really care about me, so what's the point in telling him?

My problem is that our kids are young. I can't just ignore H, we have to co-operate on parenting and chores. Except he cannot engage in co-operative, problem solving discussions, and he cannot plan or organise himself, he resents me telling him what needs to be done, and I end up doing all the thinking and planning around the kids, which he refuses to acknowledge, and I resent all this! I just feel that there are years and years of perpetual conflict and resentment ahead and I just can't bear it!

I felt they expected me to be a sacrificial lamb to his needs.

this ^^

When autistic people come on here and make out that all these problems are nothing to do with autism and it’s just “marriage problems” and we’re ableist it does feel like we are the sacrificial lamb to their needs. We must give up on our needs for theirs because otherwise we’re being discriminatory.

Give me a break. like literally give me a break.

How can person after person after person come on here and say they are so lonely, so unrecognised, so defeated, so exhausted, that the marriage is over but they stay because WE ARE GOOD PEOPLE who love our partners and children, even though our partners don’t give us even 10% of what we need to function in an emotionally healthy way.

Please stop. We are all so lonely. At least on here we have found others who are living our lives. It’s given me some comfort but also sadness to realise I’m not alone.

we should use this thread to find ways through.

and yes I’ve found just going ahead with my needs, with what I need to function, helps.

DH is initially shocked or critical but then eventually gets on board. When he sees how much it makes me feel better he can even go so far as to encourage. It’s like he doesn’t know what he doesn’t know but once he does it’s like he’s happy for me and that in turns helps the wheels of the family turn more smoothly.

@Regretthisfish remarkably similar situation here. 2 young kids, my wife’s interest is the children, she does almost everything with them. I feel like a forgotten person most of the time, no conversation, nothing between us. It’s like two single people living under the same roof, within the confines of a ‘marriage’. Very similar to what someone else said I’ve carved a life for myself and I go my own way, generally trying to be more sociable and keeping myself fit. It’s helped, a lot. I’m also more demanding about having time with the kids

I'm starting to feel such sadness in this thread - how common our experiences are.

I'd be interested to know how many of us have ADHD and married someone with autism. In my own marriage, sometimes I feel like I live the emotional life of 1.7 people and my husband 0.3. Maybe that was what drew us together in the first place.

About twice a year I feel a creeping sense of I can't do it anymore. I just can't. I'm at one of those points right now after an argument last night and I'm thinking: how much longer? How much longer can I do this? And why would I want to?

How many more years are going to slip by and be lost forever? Some day soon it's going to feel too late.

I have suspected ADHD - funny enough it was my husband who first suggested it! Sent me some videos of behaviours and I thought hang on...

I'm getting out only a few years into the marriage, I don't think I could last much longer tbh. He's a good guy, has a good job, is smart, funny and interesting but the communication issues, lack of sex/affection and lack of emotional reciprocity and conversation etc are stressing me out too much.

Why would ADHDers be attracted to autistic people? I’m not sure if I have ADHD but as I’ve got older I’ve found it increasingly hard to manage life. Running my life and my childrens lives single-handedly takes every ounce of my energy.

I do forget things. Crucial things. Recently forgot to take my credit cards on holiday with this kids. 😫 the overwhelm of packing 😫😫😫

And I have piles of stuff, that need sorting.

I forget important dates and get the weeks wrong. I drive myself crazy.

Anyway sorry don’t want to derail the thread with amateur self-diagnosis and cause offence to anyone.

Hi @SquirrelSoShiny yep, I'm dyslexic and ADHD, I think codependency is far more common than we might suspect.

Interestingly, DW has recently started HRT, at the same time DS1 is far more settled at uni and DS2 is ever more independent. @Apex3 the boys have definitely been DWs hyperfocus for the lat twenty odd years.

So much to unpick. Which is ironic because that is what I will spend half my time fretting over, whereas DW would be "unpick what'?".

@Surreality22 my apologies my glasses are upstairs!

I'd be interested to know how many of us have ADHD and married someone with autism. In my own marriage, sometimes I feel like I live the emotional life of 1.7 people and my husband 0.3. Maybe that was what drew us together in the first place.

I’ve got ADHD. He’s on the waiting list for autism diagnosis. Our marriage didn’t make it. Largely because there are other aspects of his personality that turn his autistic traits into abuse and cruelty. And then he cannot see how dreadful he’s been.

I can relate to what you say about emotions. I think that, until we had a child, i was simply compensating for his lack of positive emotions or ability to show any care or interest. I didn’t realise I was doing it, but I was providing all the emotional life. All the care. The affection. The support. The interest in what makes the other happy.

After we had a baby though, I had needs. And the baby had needs. And I simply couldn’t live an emotional life for two people any longer. Not when he was letting me down so dreadfully in big and small ways.

Without me doing all the work to mask for him, I learned that he’s hyper critical all the time, he’s got utterly rigid ideas about everything and simply refuses to countenance anyone having different interests or ideas or perspectives. He believes himself to be utterly rational and reasonable in every way - and sees his flat affect (it’s not ‘being calm’; he’s riddled with anxiety, but just showing nothing) as evidence of his superior reasonableness.

And he’s relentless. Much of the time he’s just relentless in telling you about things he thinks matter. He simply ignored and dismissed anything I say - returning straight back to his monologue - until I literally stopped even trying to tell him anything. The really big problem is when he thinks you’re wrong. Then he won’t let you go - he’ll follow you - because he has to demonstrate his rightness. Even if you’re crying and telling him that you cannot take any more and need to be left alone.

I think that one thing that brought me (NT) and DW (ND) together was that we, for different reasons, felt like misfits, so we had much more of an 'us against the world' mentality. We still have quite a bit of that.

I could imagine that being a reason for various ND couples getting together.

Hello everyone, I would love to join and say that this thread has been an utter revelation to me! Person after person have written their experiences and it have been me writing, literally my life has been described word for word - so thank you for sharing as I feel less alone and while it's tough for everyone here it's a comfort to know it is a real issue that has a hugely damaging impact for the families it affects. It's validating of my experiences / vindicating in a way.

The word that stuck in my mind across the posts was 'bleak' - that describes my marriage perfectly. For various reasons we must stay together but the thought of my life long term with DH leaves me feeling very empty and deeply sad for what my life could have been. Above all it is devastating when I see DH's lack of capability to parent our 8 year old with compassion, empathy and kindness, nor functionally unless I manage it and give detailed instructions.

It saddens me that I've had to explain to a child so young why daddy shouts, is angry at her very quickly, does not have the ability to have fun / relax / do typical dad stuff, and also why he doesn't talk to mummy and prefers to sleep in the spare room. Due to the devastating impact this has had on our life I want her to know she should not seek this life and repeat it under any circumstances - do the opposite!!!!

I keep my sanity and my family together by constantly reminding myself he is ND and didn't choose to be this way. I don't believe his masking pre-marriage 15 years ago was deliberate or conscious - he just really wanted the typical life with wife and nice house etc that he saw his friends doing so made super effort to get it.

I blame myself too because I was well aware of his lack of communication/ emotion / interest in cuddling and sex (he has always HATED kissing) - but I too was hell bent on having a husband and child by the time I was 30! I actually sat on my bed and cried during our engagement as I felt so much frustration and loneliness - but I didn't have the courage to call off a wedding and bring that embarrassment to myself and my family, or to hurt DH.

I also know deep down he has a very good heart and loves us (I think) in his own way. He may not have the capability to be there for us emotionally but he does help practically (on weekends so it doesn't get in the way of work and certainly not football!!) and certainly financially (as he's really exceptional in his career).

To stay sane I have to practice gratitude and acceptance every day - including acceptance of the fact NOBODY, if they haven't lived this, will ever understand the sheer loneliness and devastation it can cause. To people on the outside I think they think - oh why is she complaining, she has a beautiful family, home, her husband works very hard to provide etc, etc. So I've stopped telling anyone.

This is the first place I have come to to find like minded people who would be able to understand what I've lived and share the frustration.

It is hugely valuable to my mental health and I'm sure others feel the same - so it would be a big loss to take it down!

Anyway, long post!

This resonates so much with me.

I blame myself too because I was well aware of his lack of communication/ emotion / interest in cuddling and sex (he has always HATED kissing)

its hard though. You don’t necessarily know in advance what you’ll really struggle with. With hindsight it’s easy to forget all the things that you felt compensated for the missing bits, or the things that masked the full implications for you.

One of my hindsight moments is, very early on in our relationship, I found a video online of him doing an work talk. He was talking about something techy and he made a weird comment (so weird it sticks in my mind years later) about how you could use whatever the tech was to set reminders for yourself to show your partner that you care. And he claimed that he used it to set reminders to send his partner flowers.

I mean, I should have realised what that meant. I should have realised this was a man who thinks that scheduling an easy gesture that looks like care was a substitute for actually caring.

I guess, from his perspective, he considers taking the time to automate gestures that he believes will take care of a partner’s emotional needs to be showing love. And maybe it is. Maybe that would work for other people. But, it feels invalidating to me. Receiving flowers, not because he thought about me in a meaningful way, but because the schedule on an app told him to visit the interflora website just doesn’t feel loving to me. It makes me feel like a menial task to be automated insofar as possible.

One notable difference between my H and many others on this thread (because - people waiting to pounce on what is said in the thread - we are talking about individual people) is that sex is one of his special interests. But, like the above example, it doesn’t feel like affection or love. It feels like he’s got a sex quota in his head and he’ll (almost relentlessly) pursue that until it’s fulfilled.

I think I kidded myself for a long time that sex was his ‘love language’. Until I realised that he doesn’t really associate love with sex in the way I might have hoped.

one aspect of it that I find so difficult is the way he’ll shift from criticising me to making his formulaic approaches for sex (grabbing my thigh, for example). And he simply cannot or will not accept that I don’t just switch mode like that. Having been criticised and dismissed all evening, I’m not suddenly going to want to have sex because in his mental timetable it’s now ‘sex time’. I need to feel an emotional connection and like it’s an expression of love. Rather than a scheduled delivery.

I have long as suspected I have ADHD so it’s interesting to hear of others who have too.

My DCs are teenagers now but it makes me so sad as my DD14 says that she’s never had any fun with DH and that is so true. Everything is so rigid, serious and critical. He is never silly or fun or lighthearted. I don’t think he has ever sat down with the DCs and every truly listened to them.

I have been solely responsible for all the emotional needs of the family and have organised every single birthday, family event, outing, holiday our entire relationship. Now I am going through the menopause and have teenagers to deal with my energy is at an all time low and it’s made me realise even more there is no one to step in to take over. DH is a good man in lots of ways but the always needing to be right, taking everything as a personal criticism, the lack of interest in anyone else, the rigid thinking, the complete lack of any emotional support has made for an extremely lonely marriage.

The one thing I will always be grateful for is that I have close friends that I see a lot and who provide me with emotional support and I’ve made sure I have a life outside my marriage, socialising with friends which has definitely helped keep me sane.

I have been solely responsible for all the emotional needs of the family and have organised every single birthday, family event, outing, holiday our entire relationship...DH is a good man in lots of ways but the always needing to be right, taking everything as a personal criticism, the lack of interest in anyone else, the rigid thinking, the complete lack of any emotional support has made for an extremely lonely marriage

Above all it is devastating when I see DH's lack of capability to parent our 8 year old with compassion, empathy and kindness, nor functionally unless I manage it and give detailed instructions
It saddens me that I've had to explain to a child so young why daddy shouts, is angry at her very quickly,
Oh my God all of this! And the needing to always be right! I think that is what makes things harder! If he just accepted he had a problem and listened to me, things would be so much easier. Instead every attempt by me to make things better gets interpreted as criticism and ends in a pointless, exhausting argument.
I've felt like the only one living like this for so long. I've stopped trying to talk about it to people as they just don't get it.

I was upset when a friend told me she had told my H that he is a good Dad. All he did to deserve this praise was take our kids to an event I organised for him to take them too, whilst I was busy with work. That sort of positive feedback for minimum effort makes things more difficult for me, as he uses it to prove how an 'objective outsider' can see he is a good Dad and I am just unreasonable for expecting more of him, or trying to get him to interact more constructively with the kids.
No-one has ever told me I am a good Mum for taking my kids to stuff! There is no-one to tell me I am a good Mum, my H certainly won't recognise this!
I'm so bloody tired of it all.

The really big problem is when he thinks you’re wrong. Then he won’t let you go - he’ll follow you - because he has to demonstrate his rightness. Even if you’re crying and telling him that you cannot take any more and need to be left alone

And this! This! This!

I think it is really important to say 2 things:

• There's another pattern emerging here. A sort of 'opposites attract' pattern of an ADHD partner plus an ASC partner. I wonder how much of the difficulties here are uniquely difficult to this very specific type of pairing 🤔 a pairing where there is a very strong neurodivergent attraction- similar enough to 'vibe' with each other but balancing out each other's quirks. So for example I can bring clutter and chaos to any space. My husband can not only tolerate this but takes on the admin heavy lifting (to be fair I managed fine before marriage, he is the one that has made our lives more complicated financially because of investments etc). Over time and after children the cracks begin to open and widen. Life gets more complicated and the emotional load increases. The emotional load very much falls on me, which is hard when I'm the more reactive one.

• Some of the partners described here sound pretty awful. It can be really difficult to know where autism-related behaviours end and arsehole behaviour kicks in. For example the 'following you to make a point'- my husband has only done this once and reduced me to tears. When he saw the impact it had on me he took a moment, obviously mentally ran through what had happened and then apologised. It was at a time of high stress where we fundamentally disagreed on something (an attitude to life generally) and he went a bit Terminator on it. This is actually him under severe stress but although he was slower to respond to my stress, he did ultimately see that he had handled things badly and has been more careful since.

If he made a habit of this, with zero insight or repentance I can say 100% that I would have divorced him long ago. He is fundamentally a good man and we do love each other. He sees me as his best friend which both moves and baffles me because to be honest, I sometimes feel like he doesn't know me at all. But the reason I have stayed is because I know we are really bloody trying to do our best by each other.

If he wasn't even trying? Had no care for how his behaviours impact on me? Fuck that for a game of soldiers!

It was me @Daftasabroom - but turns out it was lots of us! See my recent theory above this post. But you're probably right about the co-dependent thing. Also there's some evidence that women with ADHD (and probably some men too) are more at risk of domestic abuse, especially the coercive control kind. We're easier to gaslight, we tend to trust a loving partner if they say we did X, Y and Z and assume we just got mixed up and they're right. And ofc the dopamine hits of the love bombing highs. I'd love to know how many of us married at speed while our partners were still viewing us as a special interest.

Me understanding that became a big turning point in my marriage. It's why an ADHD diagnosis really matters, even as adults. We learn to know our vulnerabilities. I honestly don't think my husband means to gaslight me in a calculated, abusive way. He just sees things through a very specific filter and it takes a lot of challenge to turn the ship. I had to learn to trust my own perceptions. There was a lot of gaslighting in my childhood.

I certainly am not neurotypical myself - I am at the very mild end of the autism spectrum (so I don't have ADHD). My psychiatrist firmly believes that DH and I attracted each other because of our shared neurodiversity - albeit in different forms - and that this attraction regularly occurs, so I would agree with you @SquirrelSoShiny.

I also agree that some of what is described on the thread is very much arsehole behaviour and it's really hard to pinpoint what is due to ASC and what is due to generally not being very nice.

Another very accurate and insightful post.

DH has certainly got worse and worse as time has progressed, perhaps as he masks less and less, or as he has become more of an arsehole with age, or as he's changed jobs and work has become more stressful - who knows?!