Married to someone with Asperger's/ASC: support thread 6

[Daftasabroom]

New thread, and as previously:

This thread is for partners seeking to understand the dynamics of their relationship with someone with ASD. It is a support thread, and a safe space to have a bit of a rant. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner. (ASD partners welcome to lurk or pop in, but please don't argue with other posters and tell them they are wrong).

I'm in the south-west if anyone has a recommendation

I do. I’ll message you.

Could I ask for it too? Struggling at the moment and feel like I've lost my identity. I'm a poster on here already on this thread but changed username just recently.

Sometimes I walk out just as the evening is coming and I feel a sense of "what is out there, that I'm missing". I used to love going out in the evening with friends to interesting places and doing things. Even when DH and I first got together and I was freshly 'in love', I used to feel a sense of coming down on Friday nights. We rarely ever went out to do exciting things. Dinner, yes, but nothing more than that. Slowly it just got more and more insular and I saw my friends less and less - hence the going down feeling.

it's like there's a decade or more of my life that I've missed. And even more worrying, I don't know how to reactivate that side of my life. It's like a huge chunk of me is missing and I want her back. But I'm so tired all the time. And I don't even know what I'd like to do anymore, even if I could get out. And at 47 it feels like time is running out. My body feels so old, so tired of carrying on with the burden of my difficult children and my thoroughly absent husband.

Thank you.

it's like there's a decade or more of my life that I've missed. And even more worrying, I don't know how to reactivate that side of my life. It's like a huge chunk of me is missing and I want her back. But I'm so tired all the time. And I don't even know what I'd like to do anymore, even if I could get out. And at 47 it feels like time is running out. My body feels so old, so tired of carrying on with the burden of my difficult children and my thoroughly absent husband.

I understand what you have written here BleuNoir. I have had to do some work around this to get a stronger sense of identity (some of it relates to having a difficult childhood). I have very different interests to DH and have sort of carved out my own life and I have been trying to nourish myself/inner self (I would suggest looking at what you enjoyed doing during childhood for a clue as to where to start). I am visiting a therapist and she remarked on the huge emotional load I carry due to lack of input/support from dh in this area (also have dc one with SEN). I am trying to make the best of life within a life I suppose as I'm not prepared to disrupt the family unit. Yes, it gets lonely at times and I think I have a lot of anger hanging over me and probably a fair bit of grieving to do but seeing a therapist and taking good care of myself/sorting out what I want in other areas of my life is definitely helping. My greatest sadness is my lack of decent relationships including friendships - people who hold space for me and/or meet me with my emotions but hopefully that will come in time as I know more of what I'm looking for.

You may also be in the depths of the peri-menopause as I am a similar age to you and I know hormone fluctuation is adding a whole new layer to how I am feeling about things.

I typed a long post last night and then fell asleep with my phone in my hand before I posted it. Common occurrence here.

My view is that anyone in this position needs to aggressively reclaim their own identity and interests. I joined a hobby group, which in retrospect was the first step to sorting myself out.

Re the kids. I talk to my (probably) NT child when they raise their Dad's behaviours. I reassure them that they are not going mad, and to trust their interpretation of their reality. This is a total tightrope, 1st DC is about as far away from their other parent as they could be, in terms of emotional awareness and general approach to life. I'd bet my house that they are not on the spectrum. They are extremely aware of the lay of the land, and would like their other parent to get a diagnosis.

With my other child, I don't talk to them about this sort of stuff because I think they are too young to understand, and also they are coming at it from a totally different angle. They identify strongly with their dad, and get a large part of their self-esteem and self-worth from him, because they are similar.

I'm very sorry to say that I think relationships between people without ASD/ those who have many ASD traits, will often falter, and that issues may be carried on to the next generation.

I suppose it's good that a child with ASD traits has at least one parent who sees the world as they do; and the non-ASD-trait child has one parent who sees the world as they do. But what does it do to children's sense of self and identity, to potentially grow up feeling quite alienated from their other parent?

“But what does it do to children's sense of self and identity, to potentially grow up feeling quite alienated from their other parent?”

this in spades.

poor poor DS is NT but Dad is very on the spectrum. It’s so hard to watch him being rejected again and again but DH.

I feel so sad for him. Feel so guilty to have given him this man as a dad who never bonds with him.

I think that's one of the aspects that I found hardest, "reclaiming" and doing my own thing. I guess I had this constant battle raging in my head of what our life together and relationship should be like and what it WAS like. It was soul destroying for me to not have the type of relationship that I'd always wanted, instead living this depressing existence with a husband who was more like a roommate, only spoke to me when he wanted to discuss some random facts, blanking me often and leaving me feeling so much lonelier than when I'd been single. Hence why we're separating now because the stress was too much to bear and although he's a good, kind person I feel that we will be better apart and I can begin to heal.

I was also on the other thread under a different name. The last few posts have been so hard to read as they are my exact existence.

We keep going round in circles where every time I try to bring up a separation or agreement about coparenting or a plan for moving forward he shuts down. More than his usual grey rock. So I retreat because its hard enough communicating when he wants to but he just won't engage with it so I just fall back into the day to day.

I've asked him what he wants from me, offered to do things differently, try another way but he thinks everything is fine even though I am screaming that it's not. Is it really fine to have a wife who is sad all the time, lonely, bored, drinks too much, cries all the time, started smoking again after years and years and you know it's your fault and you do nothing. I don't know what he's clinging to but he's refusing to engage. It makes me think of when men use sex workers (not that he has any interest whatsoever in sex) but when you KNOW the other person is unhappy or unwilling how can you enjoy it? Especially when you claim to love them, which he does.

I'm turning forty in a few months and have already made plans with friends that don't include him. I'm just so ashamed that they all have partners who WANT to make a fuss of them, to give them a great day etc. Every birthday is miserable with him because he doesn't care about birthdays or gifts so anything he does just feels fake and flat so I've kind of created this 'oh I hate my birthday' persona which is a complete lie.

I end up planning my own birthday smallbox. I have a big birthday approaching and I've already made a suggestion as to what to do for it (with husband to make arrangements). Left to dh it would be a few off the shelf gifts from the local supermarket (as it usually is and almost identical ones from the previous year). I know this is a gift/thought but it feels as if very little effort goes into it...almost like he is going through the motions. I've seen a few men raid the supermarket shelves on the run up to Christmas, grabbing something in desperation so we are very much not alone in this sense. With this in mind, I make sure I treat myself. Ditto, Christmas. It's not the same but it feels empowering to treat yourself well and so much better than the envitable disappointment that would follow.

The last decade or more I get Apple stuff. I have a lot of iPhones and iPads. It’s DH’s go to present for me when he can’t think of anything else. I don’t mind I guess as Apple anything is nice but it’s not very romantic!

He buys the smallest chocolate cake from the supermarket for my birthday. It’s tiny. Just enough for four small slices. One for each of us. That’s it then, birthday over.

these days I put my foot down and we all go out to a restaurant. But it’s always the same one in the same town.

funny thing is he does enjoy novelty and new things sometimes but not when he’s stressed and he’s been stressed ever since we got married.

All these recent posts are so emotional to read - so exactly my experience and therefore reassuring, but painful to know that there are so many others suffering the same thing. I've spent the last few weeks reading everything in all the six AS threads from the last four years - so much wonderful stuff to read to make me realise I'm not going crazy here all by myself. I could repeat everything that's been said - lonelier with him than when on my own, feeling life is pointless, the inner me crumbling away into almost nothing, feeling like I've wasted 20 years (well, at least 20 unhappy years in a 30-year marriage) and complete emotional emptiness: from receiving no emotional support from him, and from having only superficial friends because we never ever invite anyone, ever, back to our house. Socialising is not high on the list... I have only told one friend about what I think is going on (he is undiagnosed, but fits so many tick boxes - I won't list them all out here) so I'm crying out for support but people are so busy and don't realise that my apparently successful and blissful existence is anything but. I find it hard to ask if we can meet not just for a coffee but because I'm falling apart and I need someone to listen. I've been so resilient and stoic for so long that running out of oomph is really hard. I only started working out what I think is causing all our issues within the last year, so how could it have taken me this long to get to this point?

May I ask a couple of questions: if your husband doesn't fully agree with your thoughts that he is on the spectrum, and certainly doesn't yet want to tell his family what thoughts I'm having (as he says they are definitely my thoughts, not his), then is it reasonable, in your view, that I start telling even just a few friends who are joint friends? And, then, what do you think about telling your own kids, who are older teenagers? They made various comments for several years when they were a bit younger about their "weird" dad (their words, not mine). I'm so despondent that they've seen a pretty dysfunctional role model of a marriage all these years, and I don't want them to think it's normal, but if he doesn't want to tell his family, how much should I respect that and not tell my own children (they are his too)? I would never talk about him disparagingly, but make it clear that there is no blame, it's just what I believe neurodiversity has done to this marriage.

Everybody struggles with the empty nest syndrome, but the thought of my younger one going off to university fills me with more dread than words can describe. At the moment, I'm just not sure how to get to a place where I can rationally consider the future.

Phew, that sounds pretty negative on reading back! I do have happier moments too, honest. But, if you've got this far, thanks for reading it, warts and all (the post's warts, of course)! Hope it's ok for me to join you all. :)

Hi all,

Just a quick message to remind everyone to keep posts grounded in your personal experiences and not generalise if we can possibly help it.

There's a push from some to get this thread shut down.

Keep on keeping on.

D

@Daftasabroom

please Mumsnet don’t shut it down

we are a unique group of individuals with a pain point that needs to be relieved/discussed/processed. We cannot do this anywhere else in our lives and this is the only place I have found, at least, that helps me to come to terms with the life I now lead.

Autistic people will keep saying it’s nothing to do with autism.

And yet as the mother of two autistic children, I have seen the pain the world causes them. They are rejected constantly. To pretend that autism doesn’t create difficulty in relationships in the mostly NT world we live in, helps no one.

let’s keep discussing and try to help each other, to stay in our relationships even if we must bare incredible sadness each day.

without this thread I think I may just lose it.

shutting it down won’t make the problems go away. It will just make those people shut down even more as we have nowhere to turn.

Totally agree this thread should not be shut down! It’s invaluable for those who are, at times, really struggling in an ND/NT relationship.

Just reading through other people’s experiences is a big help, it’s amazing how similar a lot of people’s situation is to my own

As a mother to two autistic children I hate that these threads are being labelled 'anti-ASD'. I have devoted the last 8 years of my life to caring for my children and dealing with all that comes with that - including giving up my job because of no adequate wrap-around childcare for their needs, the frequent appointments, meetings, calls from school etc.

Other posters may not like what we have to say about our own experiences but I can assure them I am certainly not demonising ASD and I'm sure many, many posters are in the same boat.

@IndigoFlamingo

welcome Indigo. I don’t have much to say except to say I witness your experience and emphasise 100%. I wish there was someone to help us and give us a step by step process to find ourselves again, with the least amount of pain and energy expended, to everyone involved.

keep posting 🤗

Empathise. Sorry, it’s been a long day.

Yes @Daftasabroom I was expecting some pushback here. I was one of the ND people on the other thread defending this one but tbh there was some rigid thinking in evidence...

I think these threads are good at pointing out what is arsehole and / or abusive behaviour as opposed to behaviours that may be underpinned by a ND view or experience of the world. I dip in and out and find I recognise a lot of the experiences here. It makes me feel less alone.

@SquirrelSoShiny

your last post frankly sums up the hypocrisy on this thread.

you claim no ableism on this the read yet you can dismiss autistic opinions on the disabled bashing thread as “rigid thinking”??

this thread is a horror show of ableism.

Yeah OK I was snarky in my delivery I admit but tbh I did see rigid thinking in evidence. Sometimes I see descriptions of this thread that just aren't my experience of them. But apparently the experience of people here doesn't matter (even though some of us are ND ourselves) because only one particular viewpoint is acceptable.

So yeah, I'm going to go ahead and call that rigid thinking because it's... rigid thinking.

It would be fine to accuse us all of generic ableism and hatefulness IF we were not in fact in longterm relationships with partners who are recognisably autistic. The information is out there and easily accessible now. Professional assessments are not as easily accessed. Sometimes getting one is a very gradual process. It took me years to get to that point. Reading about ADHD on MN was a turning point for me and I finally went for assessment. Ironically my husband quietly bought the DSM-5 handbook on ADHD and never spent a second questioning my diagnosis. The fact he couldn't see his own ADHD traits? That's the bit I find hilarious 🤦‍♀️ Ditto his multiple autism traits.

Stop trying to shut down threads just because YOU don't see the value in them. Your children will have a very different experience growing up in a world that is much more ND accepting. Some of us spent a lifetime masking undiagnosed and that took a toll, including learning some really unhelpful coping strategies. I see them in myself and also in my husband. These threads are really helpful for some of us. Our experience of our own lives does actually matter.

Who the fuck are others to tell us our own experience of our own lives doesn't matter?!

To return to the prior discussion about finding and holding onto our sense of selves I really urge people to find things they value even if their autistic partner devalues it. I really can't stress that enough. This was a huge turning point for me which gets easier as children get older. My husband was extremely negative about things he saw no value in and his contempt for them was corrosive. I suddenly realised my world had completely shrunk and that these things weren't just frivolous, they were necessary and valuable. It marked a big turning point in us starting the ongoing process of improving our relationship.

I still have moments of relationship hopelessness but less often than before. I also know that if we split, I will be okay because my life is gradually expanding again.

Some of us spent a lifetime masking undiagnosed and that took a toll, including learning some really unhelpful coping strategies. I see them in myself and also in my husband.

YY I agree with that. That is my experience with DH.

id also say that it’s very difficult to convey what’s going on in our relationships in a single post. The same event can be narrated from a very personal NT view, or on a very emotional level or on a ND/ASC pov. They will be exactly the same thing but will probably elicit a different reaction iyswim.

eg DH does <insert behaviour such as not engaging in a conversation>
ASC story:
this is small talk, I can’t be bothered because it’s so boring. Besides I’m already overwhelmed by the whole day and need to switch off. Can’t engage again!!!
Me emotional:
he is ignoring me yet again. I was talking to him about something important to me and he walked away. He is stonewalling me. It feels like abuse and I can’t take it anymore.

Both experiences are true. It’s not ableist to say that the behaviour is hurtful/feeling abusive to the NT partner. Because the reality is that it is. I had a need to be supported. I needed to get his input and I was shut down. My needs were not acknowledged at all (often they have been dismissed because he didn’t see why I was struggling therefore it wasn’t true)
It is ALSO true that fur the ND partner there was some good reasons for the behaviour. That it didn’t mean any harm etc….

Its nit possible to convey all pov so most if the times the posts on here are single layers with emotional dumping (I’ve done a lot up that in previous threads - name change regularly….).
So yes I get it’s annoying to only see one side if the story. But there isn’t the space for it.

@AsterixInEngland that is a really fair post. I think it captures a very recognisable dynamic for many of us here.

Of course if you lob in my ADHD too it adds even more layers 😂