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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Is this abusive?

105 replies

MilliwaysUniverse · 30/07/2022 20:33

I've nc for this, I have really bad anxiety and worry that I'm overreacting but don't want to be identified.

I've been with my DP for 7 months. We don't live together or even in the same city, I have an adult DC and he has one adult and one teen. He's just signed the final papers for his divorce before court grants the decree absolute. I'm widowed. We met after his divorce started.

He has a temper, but has only directed it at me once. He has apologised for that and I know he regrets what he says - he has adhd so his emotional dysregulation is part and parcel of his neurodiversity. He rarely wants sex, but tells me he loves me for everything that I am, not my body but the whole package.

He's very affectionate with me, holds my hand everywhere, has introduced me to lots of people in his life as his partner.

What worries me is that he can be very blunt, and I don't know if it's abusive or just him pointing stuff out. Like he thinks I'm self sabotaging by putting extra cheese on pizza, because I'm overweight and it's a bad choice. He got me to stop biting my nails because he likes them a bit longer. He bought me a hair removing device as a gift. He has introduced me to weed as a way to combat my panic attacks. My mum thinks he's controlling, but I don't think he is - he encourages me to go out without him, we only see each other once a week generally due to work commitments and geography, and when we are together he is lovely most of the time. I just think he can be a bit critical. We have only had one argument and I felt free to voice my frustration and tell him he was being an arsehole, there was no problem after we made up, he's not offended, he owns his shit and admitted I was right. So it could be that blunt criticism is what he actually responds to, and because he does, he thinks everyone does. So it's not abusive, it's just different communication styles?

I love him and can see a future together with him. I feel self conscious about my weight but I always have. My late DH never commented on it so in a way it's refreshing to be able to talk about it, I just watch what I eat around him now.

We have a very open way of communication where nothing is taboo, so maybe this is part and parcel of that? Am I being blinded by the attention? Sorry this is so long!

OP posts:
MilliwaysUniverse · 31/07/2022 13:46

@pinkyredrose I think you're right. He was one in a million, I will never meet anyone like him again.

OP posts:
pastypam · 31/07/2022 13:49

From reading your original posting and then your replies throughout.

I have to say, no, I don't think he's controlling or abusive. In the first posting I thought he maybe was, but seeing your replies with a little more detail, I think he's just trying to support you in ways you've asked him to but in the best way he can. Not everyone is great with words or can speak before thinking... we all have a temper which we struggle to control at times.. if this isn't a reoccurring incident and he apologised and you were able to have a open and honest conversations afterwards with mutual respect then I think that can be looked upon as a one off but maybe monitor it if it happens again...
the growing your nails I think is just a partners personal preference, I tell my DH not to shave all his beard off, because I find him hella more sexy with it... but it isn't a deal breaker, just a preference... maybe he likes the feel of your nails against his skin? That's not uncommon. My mum and dad had this ... because he loved back scratches!! Nothing controlling about it. Just people in love making minor changes to please their partners! No different to a man requesting dress up in the bedroom to me .....
and some people just don't have high sex drives .. for multiple reasons, some of which you explained in your reply's... sex isn't the be all for all relationships, I've known some couples who sleep in separate rooms at night, but they're still fiercely loyal and in love... relationships are unique and not one size fits all - everyone's different!
And as you stated .... he doesn't use it as a weapon. So it is what it is .... the question there is, if your sex drive can match his. Or if he can up it a little to meet your needs, communicate and if it's not for you then that's your choice to make.
As for your mum? Considering she hasn't even met the guy, I feel she's being abit judgemental and as you stated, maybe has a bad taste in her mouth over your choice to rebuild after your loss. Again, that's her problem. Not yours or your partners, but she's projecting for sure. Simply tell her you appreciate her opinion, but until she's actually met him and seen your dynamic to keep her opinions to herself, because your happy and deserve that.

wellhelloitsme · 31/07/2022 13:50

MilliwaysUniverse · 31/07/2022 13:46

@pinkyredrose I think you're right. He was one in a million, I will never meet anyone like him again.

I'm so sorry for your loss OP, he sounds absolutely lovely and I'm so happy you experienced many safe, loving and peaceful years with him.

When someone is wonderful the grief hits even harder of course, but means you have wonderful memories to look back on Flowers

Thisisworsethananticpated · 31/07/2022 13:50

I don’t think we can classify all male behaviour as ‘abusive’
it minimises when people
really are in a abusive situation

but it’s not GREAT and he has a few flaws
and so do many of us

adhd and neurodiversity can drive behaviours that are , less palatable shall we say

if he wants to use weed for anxiety , fine
but he shouldn’t encourage you to

and the rarely wants sex would probably put me off

but not all bad eggs are abusive

beastlyslumber · 31/07/2022 13:50

There is undeniable chemistry between us.

Meh. He'd rather smoke weed than have sex with you.

He tells me he always wants me in his life.

He's lovebombing you. It's all too much, too soon.

I do believe he loves me, and don't know whether it's best to talk to him about the criticism or just finish things.

Talk to him. Say, I've noticed that you're very critical of certain aspects of my appearance and behaviour, and it upsets me. I'd like you to stop criticising me please.

His response will tell you so much.

What the response of a genuinely nice and respectful man would be: I'm so sorry I've made you feel that way. I appreciate you letting me know how you feel about this, and I won't ever criticise you in that way again.

wellhelloitsme · 31/07/2022 13:51

beastlyslumber · 31/07/2022 13:50

There is undeniable chemistry between us.

Meh. He'd rather smoke weed than have sex with you.

He tells me he always wants me in his life.

He's lovebombing you. It's all too much, too soon.

I do believe he loves me, and don't know whether it's best to talk to him about the criticism or just finish things.

Talk to him. Say, I've noticed that you're very critical of certain aspects of my appearance and behaviour, and it upsets me. I'd like you to stop criticising me please.

His response will tell you so much.

What the response of a genuinely nice and respectful man would be: I'm so sorry I've made you feel that way. I appreciate you letting me know how you feel about this, and I won't ever criticise you in that way again.

This.

And then they genuinely wouldn't do it again.

namechanged4it · 31/07/2022 13:52

Is your partner on the spectrum? Sometimes people who are on the autism spectrum speak like this.

I would say it's controlling to a point I suppose. If you're happy though then don't worry to much. I will say parents (usually- not always) are looking out for your best interests so always take heed of what they are saying.

I certainly wouldn't be self medicating with weed. Each type of anxiety and panic is different and it really is better to speak to a medical professional. In the long term the weed may make it worse. I understand he is trying to help but I assumr he isn't a doctor.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 31/07/2022 13:58

This man as well hasn't even waited till the ink is dry on his divorce papers before embarking on a relationship with new new target here aka the OP in question. Yet more red flags in a sea of them.

MilliwaysUniverse · 31/07/2022 14:04

He does have ASD and ADHD. I think this is where the tactlessness comes from.

I am taking all of the advice in. I'm not going to rush to a kneejerk reaction, I am going to use this time apart to talk to my therapist, reflect on things, and decide where I go from there. That may be to talk to him, it may be to end things, I don't know yet. It's hard to go from a niggling feeling to total certainty when you love someone. But it has been useful to have an independent view that has forced me to confront some hard truths.

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 31/07/2022 14:13

You probably thought you loved your ex as well; a man who went onto control and abuse you.

What sort of therapist are you seeing, are they registered with a recognised body?. How adept is your therapist in recognising abuse in relationships?. I ask this as some of them see abuse as a relationship problem, abuse is not a relationship problem; abuse is about power and control.

And on a wider level do you not think its a bit odd that he has been asking you for advice re disagreements with his kids at a mere 7 months in either?.

MilliwaysUniverse · 31/07/2022 14:22

My therapist is a registered psychotherapist specialising in bereavement and abuse.

I don't think there is anything odd in talking about your kids and asking advice. My DC is slightly older than his, he asked how I navigated a couple of issues when my DC was that age. I wasn't particularly helpful as it happens, because my DC was grieving so the way I dealt with things was not how I would have if he hadn't lost his dad.

OP posts:
Kindofcrunchy · 31/07/2022 14:24

In my experience, therapists aren't supposed to give you their own opinion on a situation or influence your decision in any way. They're a reliable sounding board for their patients. If yours is telling you that they think this guy is fine on the basis of what you've told them, then that is unprofessional behaviour and you should find another therapist.

wellhelloitsme · 31/07/2022 14:28

So my therapist says that he seems to be building the blocks of a relationship but being mindful that I'm not ready to cement between them in some sections. It's not a great analogy but I know what she means.

She knows about the weed. She isn't concerned other than for me getting into trouble legally.

I'm going to think it all through and talk to my therapist. So far she has been of the opinion that he is showing me he is making room for me in his life and I've not done the same, and I need to trust his actions instead of doubting his words.

I completely agree with the poster who said your therapists approach is unprofessional.

She shouldn't be sharing her personal opinion or telling you what you 'need' to do when it comes to this relationship or any.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 31/07/2022 14:35

He has asked you for your advice up till now on all aspects of his life including disagreements with his children. Why are there disagreements with his children? Of course it’s not odd to ask for advice but there’s a difference here between asking for advice and what he is asking.

Finding another therapist to work with now should be a priority. Anyone can call themselves a therapist and a poor one can do a lot of harm.

OldFan · 31/07/2022 16:06

his network is huge and they all speak fondly of him.

People will say this about any narc/many abusers @MilliwaysUniverse . Often, most people who know them can't believe what they're really like- abusive to their partners.

has a legitimate reason to possess weed in general.

There is none. Even for medicinal use people can obtain from their doctor a tablet where the beneficial element has been isolated and standardised, with the elements with unhealthy effects taken out.

She knows about the weed. She isn't concerned other than for me getting into trouble legally.

She should be. I'm not so bothered about the legal element so much (although it's part of a wider drug trade that causes harm, including to communities in the UK.)

I'm bothered by the (genuine- ask your doctor) - negative/unhelpful health element, and the seediness/scabbiness of a man who is into this. You're a decent woman you don't need to be associated with that and a partner who's into it.

It also has effects on a relationship in my experience. You wouldn't necessarily know, because you don't know what he'd be like if he gave it up completely. It tends to make people more self-absorbed etc.

OldFan · 31/07/2022 16:08

She shouldn't be sharing her personal opinion or telling you what you 'need' to do when it comes to this relationship or any.

Most therapists are more directive than that nowadays. But for a therapist giving suggestions, I think she's giving completely wrong ones when it comes to OP's actions in her relationships, and the drugs.

(sorry if I post in a few posts, I have some errors with the system sometimes.)

OldFan · 31/07/2022 16:16

What sort of therapist are you seeing, are they registered with a recognised body?

People just have to complete the qualification and pay a fee to join that. They sign a code of conduct but anyone can sign a piece of paper.

My ex was a therapist (not mine) with a PhD in it. He still was a twat and probably a crap therapist. He gives his clients a lot of direction (past a basic or 'person-centred' qualification, they tend to.) But he would probably have given OP even worse advice, because he would always support the man in a situation. In a patriarchical society, quite a few therapists probably do that- like OP's therapist they would give a man in a scenario the benefit of the doubt too much.

Pinkbonbon · 31/07/2022 16:38

I think I'd back off on the weed whatever you do. It's a really bad idea for anxiety.

Plus, what happens if you two split up and you can't get it any more? You'd still have to ask him for it, thats what!

The other stuff...the thing is, controlling or not, you can't be at ease around him. You're already having to mind what you eat.

I'm sure a lot of control presents itself as 'in your best interests' at first too.

SpidersAreShitheads · 01/08/2022 02:43

MilliwaysUniverse · 31/07/2022 14:04

He does have ASD and ADHD. I think this is where the tactlessness comes from.

I am taking all of the advice in. I'm not going to rush to a kneejerk reaction, I am going to use this time apart to talk to my therapist, reflect on things, and decide where I go from there. That may be to talk to him, it may be to end things, I don't know yet. It's hard to go from a niggling feeling to total certainty when you love someone. But it has been useful to have an independent view that has forced me to confront some hard truths.

I am commenting to offer a different perspective to the majority of PP.

Before you added this comment, I was going to ask about neurodiversity. Because everything you're describing is a very neurodiverse way of communicating and thinking. And for disclosure, I'm autistic and have ADHD myself.

What's key here is that you can push back on anything he says, and he doesn't take it personally. He's not doing any of it to control you because of his personal whims - it's because of things you've said, so he's trying to help in the only way that he knows how. So for example, you've said you are unhappy about your weight and want to lose weight - he's pointing out that extra cheese won't help you with your goals. It's a bizarre type of love language. If you hadn't told him that you wanted to lose weight, he probably wouldn't have noticed and wouldn't have said anything.

Think of it like Spock from Star Trek - it's not emotional, it's logical.

Same as the Disney T-shirt. He didn't show disapproval or comment - but when you asked him directly, he didn't lie. We have to work hard to figure out what to say sometimes, and it's not unusual for the truth to spill out before we've either a) figured out that we shouldn't be telling the truth or b) figured out what we should say instead of the truth.

Re the temper thing, it's not nice for anyone to lose their temper with you. And even if he was dysregulated as you describe, he shouldn't have shouted at you. But you shouted back, and he apologised. That's nothing like the dynamics of a controlling, abusive relationship. Also, this has only happened once - I could probably get over being yelled at once if it was followed by a genuine apology and explanation, as you've indicated. Especially as he was fine with you giving it back to him both barrels!

The love language of someone who's neurodiverse can look quite different. We often try to practically help with things that you might have mentioned. Sometimes we forget that people don't always want help, and just want some emotional cheerleading. What I think is really positive is that you have said you can be brutally honest with him in return, and he takes it on the chin with no resentment. That kind of honesty in a relationship can be very refreshing.

Despite all of that, not everyone is going to be the right fit for someone who's neurodiverse. The wrong partners have reduced me to a huge ball of non-functioning anxiety, or I've overwhelmed them because I'm OTT, exuberant and just "too much" all of the time.

You don't have to be in a relationship with someone if you find the unfiltered honesty too much. It's not for everyone, and that's perfectly OK. I don't tend to shout at anyone and I don't personally cope well with people who shout at me, so again, that might be a consideration. Conversely, others don't mind a good shouting match from time to time.

If you find him too much, or you just don't feel that you get the level of emotional love from him that you want, it's OK to accept that you're not a good fit. He doesn't have to be abusive for you to exit the relationship. Ultimately if you don't feel as if you can relax and be yourself around him, this relationship doesn't have a future does it? For it to work, you'd need to be comfortable being equally frank in return. With the food example - "yeah, I know cheese has more calories but I'm not going to worry about it for this meal tonight". A relationship shouldn't be hard work all of the time. Is it?

Btw, I'm not commenting on the marijuana as I've got no idea whether it's a good move or not. I know lots of people use it to help with mood etc and I know that GPs won't discuss it because it's illegal. So I'm removing that from the equation as I think the more fundamental issue is his neurodiversity and whether this approach to a relationship is right for you.

MilliwaysUniverse · 01/08/2022 22:11

Thanks @SpidersAreShitheads for that really detailed breakdown.

I talked this all through with my therapist. I hadn't mentioned his ASD to her before, just the ADHD - mainly because the ADHD was something he had questioned if I had, based on him observing me while we were on holiday. She thinks your view of his black and white nature seems consistent with his actions, and it did make me think - he has more than once become upset (tearful not angry) if I am having a problem and he doesn't have a solution. And he offers solutions to problems even when I just want to moan - I had no idea how to use my Macbook (it was a joint purchase between me and DS when he did A Levels) so he got me to bring it on a date and he taught me loads of tips and tricks, set up a back up and gave me a partitioned hard drive to save my videos. And another time, we couldn't have an overnight stay somewhere we had booked because he had Covid. So he suggested I message colleagues near that location to see if anyone fancied a night out with me there so it didn't go to waste.

So really what I need to decide is if I can cope with his honesty and lack of tact, knowing he can't change. And if he was able to change, he wouldn't be the quirky whirlwind he is, because part of his charm and my attraction to him is his intelligence and interest in the most obscure but fascinating things.

We are both doing things that we wouldnt necessarily be doing if we hadn't met (or if we did it, it wouldnt have been a priority). I'm learning about neurodiversity and have started therapy. He is giving up smoking in favour of vaping (because I don't smoke cigarettes) and staying roughly in the area he currently lives in so that we can still meet up easily - he was previously going to move to Cornwall when we first met, but has just bought a house slightly closer to where I live than he was before. Of course I'm not the only reason he's moving there, but he's postponed his move for at least 5 years.

In 6 months I've seen him lose his temper twice. The first time was because of something he did himself and he was angry with himself. When we argued the other day, it didn't scare me, it made me lose my own temper in return. But that's no way to live anyway. I've got time.

OP posts:
Sapphirensteel · 01/08/2022 22:44

More red flags than a Communist rally.
Sorry, OP, but this has disaster written all over it.
His temper, passive aggressive behaviour ( who gives their girl friend a hair remover???) introducing you to weed and he’s making you ever so grateful for being with him.
Yes, there could be a future in this—- but it’ll be awful, controlling, and end in tears.

Teeturtle · 02/08/2022 06:13

MilliwaysUniverse · 30/07/2022 23:18

He's a stoner but holds down a steady professional job. It doesn't impair him, I wouldn't know he had smoked weed just by talking to him if I didn't know different.

There are so many red flags but I just want to comment on this one, as close to my heart. I have never taken drugs, but I am an alcoholic (now in recovery). I always held down a professional job, a lot of us addicts do you know.

Until someday we don’t. Some will lose their job, for others like me, I voluntarily left my job under the guise of going back to education, which I did for a year. I also passed a masters in the midst of my alcoholism, I made it hard for myself for sure, but it was easier than going to work, easy to skip lectures.

I was still an alcoholic. I made my partners life miserable and I didn’t enjoy mine either. I find it shocking that another adult has introduced you to this toxin and as an adult, presumably a mature one, you have let him! You even speak like he has done you a favour. Well he hasn’t.

anotherscroller · 02/08/2022 06:25

Fwiw, I agree broadly with a lot of MNers here, but I think it’s really unhelpful to be so categorical.
”dump him!”
”he’s a cunt!”
obviously it’s going to make OP get defensive 🙄
snap judgements like that make it sound like you’re not really listening/haven’t thought OP’s problem through

barbedwired · 02/08/2022 06:27

Let me get this straight, you love a druggie who's talked you into being one as well. But, it's alright, he shares his drugs - just like the dealers who want you hooked.

theinvisible1 · 02/08/2022 06:46

when we are together he is lovely most of the time*
*
After 7 months and only seeing each other one or twice a week I'd expect it to be lovely all the time!

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