Advice for dating ex military with ptsd and adjustment disorder

[ineedsleepandbooze]

I would like to hear others thoughts and feelings to do with dating military/ex military with ptsd and adjustment disorder.

I have been with my partner 5 years and it has been rocky. He was just leaving the army when we met and was medically discharged due to PTSD. We moved in after a year together and he was horrendous to live with, he was selfish, grumpy and would not talk to be for days, he could also be manipulative. I moved out and we broke up. He admitted he had problems and had been emotionally abusive to me. He decided to do the perpetrators program through a domestic abuse charity and start counselling. I have kept him at arms length for 3 years, but we remained in contact, but he hasn't really shown any abusive behaviour and anything borderline we have discussed it and its stopped. He grew up witnessing domestic abuse (his sister told me) and he is starting to open up more and more, whilst developing good self awareness. He also has some traits of autism, which have hindered communication at times, but this has improved lots.

He has asked for relationship counselling to see if we can get everything sorted before we progress. Things have got to a point of we either move back in together and give the relationship a proper go or we walk away.

My question is do people ever really change or am I kidding myself. I love him deeply, enjoy his company and would really like my future with him.

I get the feeling that you're not hearing what you want to hear.

Given that you work for the probation service you must realise that the rate of recidivism is high and that people don't always find it straight to stay on the straight and narrow.

In your situation, I appreciate we're not talking about crime but we are talking about behaviours and how people can slip when things aren't easy.

Oh and in answer to your question, yes.

People absolutely do change. As in people with mental health issues and trauma can heal. But people with mental health issues and trauma aren't across the board assholes. Having PTSD doesn't give you a free pass at being abusive. It sounds like he was probably like this before his military service and will probably be like this even if he starts to recover from trauma.

I guess the sweeping consensus is that people can never really change then. Interesting, I guess my own self-development journey is a waste of time then and my work in the probation service has been wasted too.

That sounds a very catastrophic take on the comments, OP. Some people can change but certain changes take time, commitment and with no certainty of success and considerable pain on the part of loved ones. The difference with your work and your self-development is perhaps that this is not the only man in the world, whereas for your self-development, you are the only you. For work, that is what you are paid to do.

Assuming he wants to be in a healthy relationship and not be an abuser then his odds are better with someone else rather than staying with you.

Having PTSD doesn't turn people into abusers, so your starting premise that he was abusive because of the PTSD is faulty and offensive. Everything that flows from your faulty starting position is also fundamentally faulty.

You haven't had any walls up, you've continued the relationship just without cohabitation. Do you really think you're the special exception where they can continue a relationship with their abuser without the abuse? You're not describing anything different from the same old patterns of abusive relationships.

People can change, but for abusers to change they have to permanently end the abusive relationship and move forward afresh. Otherwise it distorts motivation, perpetuates the pattern of control that drives abuse and keeps people stuck in old patterns. "Self-improvement" is an entirely separate phenomenon from the dynamics of abuse.

On your side as much as his. You need to exit the relationship.

And no reputable competent therapist would countenance joint therapy between two individuals where there has been abuse - all the evidence shows it is harmful, so anybody who agreed to it would not be fit to practice.

A word of warning for someone who grew up with a father who had been an officer in the military: do not marry or have a family with a man who has PTSD from witnessing war/active combat and is displaying some serious behavioural issues.

My father never adjusted to civilian life after he left the army and always refused to admit he had issues. He was on anti-depressants all his life, but always refused counselling, and was a violent, cold and abusive father. He never really had any interest or energy to spend on building any kind of relationship with me beyond being constantly critical and physically and verbally abusive. I had no contact with him for most of my adult life.

Like this man my father also had a rather traumatic chidlhood and the combination of that and the years in the army damaged him beyond repair and he never really had the will to work on fixing himself and realise the damage he was causing to his daughter.

This man might in the end manage to deal with his problems but it will be a long journey and you don't want to waste your life in the meantime with someone who has so much to deal with.

Step back and let him continue his journey. He should not be thinking about relationships while he is struggling.

DH is ex-military and has a diagnosis of PTSD. Feel free to PM me. It’s not straightforward and everyone is different.

yes this.

Don't waste your time. IME (with an ex army guy as well) those who are emotionally manipulative stay that way because it works and brings them what they want.

Please do not saddle a child with that as their parental legacy.

and to be honest, your snippy response to people's views tell me that you are indeed well emeshed in a saviour complex. It's a shame you work in that field also, because I think you are ripe to being manipulated by clients as well. if they tell you what you want to hear you are fighting for them while failing to see you are being used.

I am reading though all your comments and taking them in.

People can and do change.

Ask yourself what evidence there is that he has changed, what actual changes has he made, what evidence do you have that these changes are long term (eg sustained over a period of years). How does he react under stress, how does he handle conflict - in what way is that different than what went before. How does he understand his abusive behaviour before, does he take full responsibility with no ifs and buts. What is materially different now than before.

The fact that you’re asking can people change suggests you don’t know, ie haven’t seen evidence of change in him. Be quite analytical about it, don’t be swayed by what you hope for him look for hard evidence of change, examples of where you can see difference without having to squint.

In my experience PTSD takes a lot of work to recover from, often over years it’s an ongoing process. If you do decide to continue with him why does he need to move in with you, could he live closer by so you can see evidence of change in his daily life without having to live it? I’d not be in a rush to introduce children into the equation because nothing triggers old trauma like having kids - he needs to be much further along in his recovery before he goes anywhere near becoming a parent. Only you know where that fits with your timeline.

I was about to reply with one word - DON'T - when seeing the title of your thread, that implied you were considering going on a date with someone.

But this is not about that, but about an established relationship. I would still be very wary.

But people with mental health issues and trauma aren't across the board assholes. Having PTSD doesn't give you a free pass at being abusive.

This, really. My husband's in the army, has seen a lot of action. He can be difficult but he is fundamentally an extremely gentle and loving husband and father.

Maybe this guy could be a Nice Guy but it all sounds like so much effort for a very young relationship. A year or two...you should just be having fun.

I don't really understand why you'd want any of this?

@Duttercup Its been 5 years

Oh OP. jjst please don't. As I said- I have been with an ex army guy who specialised rather nicely in emotional abuse. I stayed too long.

After this I met my now DH. He is a truly nice guy, I honestly never even knew it was possible to have a relationship that just wasn't filled with insecurity and drama. You don't need the drama. You don't need to save him. You don't need to continuous axe slashes or paper cuts to your self esteem.

There is better out there. More to the point you deserve better. Everyone does.

I have kept him at arms length for 3 years, but we remained in contact

I would disagree. You had one (?bad?) year, three years of keeping him at arms length and now some more ?bad? times.

That doesn't equal a 5 year relationship.
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What I mean by keeping him at arms length is that we still saw each other and acted as a couple, but I had some very firm boundaries in place and had emotionally detached somewhat in case the behaviour returned and I needed to leave.

Honestly? I wouldn't bother.

@SummerLobelia I am sorry to hear and thank you for your comment from you own personal experience.

I’ve been around the services for over 30 years and was with my career army (now ex )DH for 20. My opinion is that people who were essentially decent, stable individuals can , with lots of self input and help from professionals, sometimes recover from PTSD. If the PTSD is an additional factor to a potentially abusive individual, then no-I don’t think a person is likely to change, neither do I think the ‘love of a good woman’ can help. I think only you know what his true character is.
Whatever happens put yourself and your needs-and the needs of your potential children first.

@ineedsleepandbooze OK. It doesn't change my opinion, good relationships, ones to fight for, don't involve you needing to have strict boundaries for years on end.

You also asked for specifically military opinions so this is mine based on a 12 year marriage where I've seen lots of Forces relationships - the army doesn't make people nice, and noone ever really leaves.

Yes, I did. We were engaged. He was fine before the PTSD. When he came back to London when he had PTSD (which was hardly known about then) he was a completely different character, verging on violent.

This, coupled with the fact that he was from Canada made me decide, regretfully to call off the engagement. I was all set to move there and make a new life for myself. Luckily I was only 21 so had enough time to start anew.

This man I know, he stayed in the military (in intelligence), worked all round the world, got married (no DC), had a couple of relationships but was also a cheater and could be violent. I ended up speaking to two exes of his online and both are pleased to be out of his life.

Agreed with this. When my ex got in contact with me years later (I'd been his first love apparently), he was and is still undergoing treatment for PTSD (25 plus years later) involving reprogramming.

He's a nice guy with a lot to offer someone but he's still harmed by being in the army and still sees a lot of his ex army buddies who've gone through PTSD. His saving grace was having a child with his ex (they co-parent, each has her half the week) who's now 5 years old. It's forced him to look at his lifestyle and his heavy drinking, which he's now cut down on. But the pregnancy wasn't planned and before he was quite selfish.

Here are the Lundy Bancroft questions:

www.ivsha.org/get-help-with-abuse/domestic-violence/assess-abusers-claims-change/