Alcohol- how much is too much vs normal?

[JustAFew]

Sorry for posting here rather than the alcohol thread. Just doesn't seem very busy over there.

My DH drinks. I barely in fact on the very odd occasion i do but not regularly, once a year but can take it or leave it.

When i bring up the amount he drinks and try to have a conversation with him about it, he gets very defensive. He will say its nothing to worry about, he doesn't drink excessively and others also drink similar. I get shut down as he will get angry and end the conversation.

for context, he drinks pretty much all week- sometimes one day off a week. When he drinks its usually 4 cans per night tues & weds, 2 pub pints and 4 cans thurs & fri nights and then weekends probably drinks 2 pub pints, 4 cans per day plus half bottle of wine. I would say, depending on what were doing its between 65-100 units a week. I find it hard to know as dont drink but find this amount far too much

he works. Doesnt take time off work due to drinking. He does lack patience with the kids especially when its evening and hes trying to relax with drinks.

i looked through old photos the other night and pretty much all photos he has a beer in his hand.

i just hate it. I feel like i cannot just have family/ friends over spontaneously incase hes drinking. I have had to ask him not to drink too much at occasions before as he just becomes embarrassing.

i do feel like this is coming to a head now and fantasise about being on my own with the children. I fee sad for them, but from what they say, i get the impression they dont like him much, which is really sad to admit.

its just too much isnt it and hes not likely to change. Weve been together over 20 years. I just dont want this to be my retirement 😟

Also if you are concerned about the children’s safety staying with him fight for day visits only. My ex h would have slept through smoke alarms.

I always find the term “functioning” interesting …. really does it just mean he is able to get himself out the door most mornings to work?

It’s such a low bar…

No idea if he does a good job technically or if he has any negative impact on his colleagues etc. when he gets there.

But he is not “functioning”, responsible or accountable emotionally or socially:

He is not a good enough, engaged or functioning father for your DCs - he is not emotionally available, attuned and responsive to his DC developmental emotional needs - he is detached, negligent and abusive.

He is not supportive or encouraging as a parent should be because he is either drunk, hungover, craving agitated etc.

He is not a good enough, engaged or functioning husband or co-parent for the same reasons as above.

He is not a good enough or engaged friend if you can’t have guests in your home because of his unpredictable behaviour.

Your DCs need to know that they deserve better than this and that their mother will work to repair the damage and fill the holes he has left before they carry this into long term self esteem, relationship and MH issues throughout their teen and adult life.

Get support for yourself first.

@DFOD it is a very low bar. I've always seen it as ;able to hold down a job and maintain an acceptable social facade to the outside world'. That's what my husband did, until he couldn't even do that any more.

Ok so i felt brave last night and raised the issue of him hiding his drinking. He told me he had gone out with a friend for a drink on the way home from work (an hour and half after he was due back 🤷🏻‍♀️). I then popped out to visit a family member. When i came home around 9pm. There was a beer glass washed up on the side (i knew he had used it as id washed up earlier and it wasnt what id washed). So as he opened a beer bottle, i said oh why have you washed up a glass if your still drinking? He blew up, said im obsessed with his drinking! I said why do you hide your drinking just be honest about it. Hes just in complete denial! I told him he was a heavy drinker and he looked at me like i was getting him mixed up with someone else! He ended the conversation by leaving the room (already half pissed- could see in his eyes, you know i can always tell if hes had a drink by those).

I hope you realise now that there is no point talking to him about his drinking. He's in full blown denial. All you can do now is protect yourself and your DC by getting out of this marriage. I realise how scary that is - been there myself - but honestly, life is so much better if you aren't around an addict 24/7.

@pointythings we just cant have a conversation about it. It gets his back up. Hes on the defensive. Its the way i talk to him apparently like hes a child?!? What??! Im talking in a calm way, not making jokes or anything like that. Perhaps talking to someone unrelated to us might help but i doubt i could get him there and tbh if i bought up what he drank he would blow up and not accept it.

@JustAFew that is what I was trying to say. You can't talk to him because he is an addict and he is in denial. There's no point thinking about him going to see someone - he won't. He is in full blown addiction and he will not change until he is ready to change. For my late husband, that moment never arrived.

All you can do now is change how you respond to him - and that doesn't mean talking, it means changing the focus of what you are doing completely. Stop worrying about his drinking - it's his circus, his monkeys. In everything you do and think, put yourself and your DC first, him last. Contact Al-Anon and talk to the people there - they will teach you about detaching, about boundaries, about self care. You need help now.

Please give serious consideration to ending your marriage. He will spiral, your children will be increasingly affected and yes, if he has contact they will be with him alone - but right now they are with him all the time. And the time will come when they will be able to stop seeing him and be with you 100%.

Things will not get better unless you start acting to protect yourself and your DC. I'm sorry that sounds so harsh, but it's the reality.

I just had to reply to this, this is so so sad, you are not having the life you deserve.
I know you say you can't leave as you are disabled and I really hope I don't come across as patronising but is it that you can't leave or that you feel worried to strike out on your own? You deserve to be happy, there is no reason why anyone should feel chained to another human when they don't want to be. I would really urge you to look into different resources and options because if you do manage to cut that tie then you could live happily, please don't throw your life away by just existing in this relationship.

@Maybee21
No not patronising at all.
I don't want to leave my home as I have lived here nearly all of my life.

I could live independently but cannot work but i would survive.

I asked him to leave when he was emotionally abusive a few years back and he wouldn't.

He is much better now but I don't like him very much.
He knows how I feel about him but still wants to be here.

If i made him leave i think it would be the end of him and i couldn't do it to him.
You're right aswell that i would be scared to be on my own.
Thankyou it means a lot that someone has cared.

My dad is an alcoholic. Highly functioning when we were much younger however the weekends became longer and eventually he just stopped working. Now constantly in and out of hospital for withdrawal, seizures, has been diagnosed with alcohol related brain injury. Still drinks!!! Often soils himself as is in such a state he can't even crawl to the toilet. Trust me you do not want this in your future or that of your kids!!
The longer your stay the harder it will be to leave.

Im really sorry to read that. This is what i fear for my future with him 🫤

Here is some advice from Relate - it’s about cocaine addiction but the substance is irrelevant and applies equally to alcohol.

The piece that resonated with me is that the partner / carer of the alcoholic/addict ends up with their own MH issues from all of the adapting, colluding, stress of both managing them and picking up the slack of what they are not doing in the home and trying to be a buffer to the children. This is unsustainable and exhausting and you soon become less of the mother you want to be and need to be as you become emotionally preoccupied, drained and ill yourself.

www.relate.org.uk/relationship-help/help-family-life-and-parenting/family-common-problems/ask-ammanda-my-daughters-husband-addicted-cocaine

Please think of your children. The worst thing is the lying and denying to you.
Try to detach and not try to fix him and analyse. You will exhaust yourself.

My children are adults now and it affects them in different ways. My daughter is terrified that he is going to die and asks him to stop.
My son drinks but I think its a lads going out thing. I would hate to see him end up like his dad. Fat, bloated, unhealthy and with no interest in life except for alcohol.

I was drinking too much, and I’d say about a year ago something just changed in me. I’d say it did come from my daughter noticing I was drunk/comments from partner/just feeling horrible/regretful when I had been drunk. I’ve got to the stage where I don’t particularly ‘like’ it anymore. A glass of wine when I’m eating out - but that’s about it. I feel SO much bloody better. I think - even though your partner argues against you - you’ve got to keep nagging, and encourage others to nag. You will be sowing seeds. I’m glad my partner nagged me.

Ohh and another thing that helped! It’s sounds silly but I deliver leaflets. So instead of drinking in the evening, my goal is to deliver 200 leaflets. It is almost like an addiction, I love it! It’s keeping me fit - and I get paid for it. It definitely helped me break the cycle - because I can’t reach for a bottle because I need to get the job done.

I would give him an ultimatum.

That he goes for a serious health check.

So that you can both make informed decisions from there.

Either way, you’ll get the answer you need. he SHOULD care that you care.

Sorry that this is happening to you x

An ultimatum however, can only be issued once, repeated ultimatums lose all their power. If you are not willing to follow through on it, it should not be issued.

You still have a choice re these men mrsjackrussell and Justafew; your childen do not. No obstacle to leaving is totally insurmountable although it may appear to be. Alcoholism as well is not called the family disease for no good reason because all of you in the family are affected by the alcoholic.

I am happy that you have found your way through - congratulations.

However your advice is 100% wrong - there is not one MH or addiction service which would put the onus on others to keep nagging.

Your mindset suggests that you are still stuck in the addicts victim mindset and have not taken 100% accountability for your addiction and your recovery as you make it conditional on others.

Leaving him if even for a break and get space. Might give him enough of a shock to realise his drinking is having on you and him.

@MurphDad it might, but it would have to be a lengthy separation. It isn't recommended for addicts to be distracted from the recovery work they have to do by also having to manage a relationship, and getting into recovery takes time. A couple of months sober doesn't cut it - you need at least a year and preferably longer.

And of course the effect might also be the opposite. When I made my late husband leave (there was DV involved), he spiralled very fast, lost his job and within 8 months lost his life. He never made any efforts towards recovery, he just played the victim.

My gut tells me to leave. I know when i do i will be ok and life will be happy. But there is just something holding me back. I think its because he is going to cry, get angry etc. i hate conflict but i know i need to do this.

thanks @DFOD that resonated with me too. I feel like this is me now - “the partner / carer of the alcoholic/addict ends up with their own MH issues from all of the adapting, colluding, stress of both managing them and picking up the slack of what they are not doing in the home and trying to be a buffer to the children. This is unsustainable and exhausting and you soon become less of the mother you want to be and need to be as you become emotionally preoccupied, drained and ill yourself”

@JustAFew it's normal to feel that leaving is a massive step and it's normal to be scared. I was terrified. And yes, mine got angry, cried, all of that.

This is why you need to seek out support for you - you need to learn to detach. That doesn't mean being horrible to him, but it does mean standing firm, accepting the situation and confronting your own feelings of guilt every time they threaten to overwhelm you. It's hard, and there are still days (4 years on) when I think 'what if?' - but they get fewer and fewer. The same will happen for you when you see how your family of three starts to thrive without this man.

I agree with this. You need a well thought out strategy with professional emotional support, professional legal advice, time, encouragement and a belief and vision of what the end goal is - IME it was for my DC to have at least one attuned nurturing parent - which was not possible when I was almost underwater managing their DF.

Al Anon talk about “detaching with love” - you can do this in your head today - you don’t have to discuss it with him at all until the day you have everything ready and you are best placed emotionally and practically to take that final step. There will be a lot of emotional damage and repair needed for your DCs and yourself that may come out when they are strict with normal teenage stuff. A separation will be another knock - but if done well will be only short term and will provide the opportunity for a much more stable and focused childhood for them.

My gut tells me to leave. I know when i do i will be ok and life will be happy. But there is just something holding me back. I think its because he is going to cry, get angry etc. i hate conflict but i know i need to do this.

This an important observation. Visualise your future calm and peaceful home - imagine how it would feel and the things you could do.

Expect his ranting and raving - look at it as “weather” - it will pass and you can also make decisions about how much exposure to it you need to put to yourself and your DCs through (ideally none).

My father was an alcoholic. It killed him at 70 - not a youngster but way too early for an otherwise healthy man.

He hid his drinking but, like you, I could tell by his eyes if he'd 'had a couple'.

He held jobs on and off but ended up getting the sack from most of them and eventually couldn't get any work at all.

His life was lonely after he and DM split, his entire social life was local pubs; in fact most of the people who came to his funeral were pub staff or pub acquaintances.

As the child of a 'drinker', I struggled with how to cope. I'm 50 now and we talk of MH issues but we didn't really have the vocabulary or the empathy for that back then, so I had no support whatsoever.

I drink- last Saturday I had 3 G&Ts, I might share a bottle of wine with DH later, seeing as it's Friday.
But, as a child of a drinker, it would've been so easy for me to fall into alcoholism too. Through my 20s I had to fight against it. I just liked drinking too much. Was it habitual or hereditary? I don't know.

Many many alcoholics are children of alcoholics. Our children have enough challenges in life, please don't add this to their lot.

Your DH is in denial and one day might realise but he'll need to do that himself and it looks like he's many years from that.