Alcohol- how much is too much vs normal?

[JustAFew]

Sorry for posting here rather than the alcohol thread. Just doesn't seem very busy over there.

My DH drinks. I barely in fact on the very odd occasion i do but not regularly, once a year but can take it or leave it.

When i bring up the amount he drinks and try to have a conversation with him about it, he gets very defensive. He will say its nothing to worry about, he doesn't drink excessively and others also drink similar. I get shut down as he will get angry and end the conversation.

for context, he drinks pretty much all week- sometimes one day off a week. When he drinks its usually 4 cans per night tues & weds, 2 pub pints and 4 cans thurs & fri nights and then weekends probably drinks 2 pub pints, 4 cans per day plus half bottle of wine. I would say, depending on what were doing its between 65-100 units a week. I find it hard to know as dont drink but find this amount far too much

he works. Doesnt take time off work due to drinking. He does lack patience with the kids especially when its evening and hes trying to relax with drinks.

i looked through old photos the other night and pretty much all photos he has a beer in his hand.

i just hate it. I feel like i cannot just have family/ friends over spontaneously incase hes drinking. I have had to ask him not to drink too much at occasions before as he just becomes embarrassing.

i do feel like this is coming to a head now and fantasise about being on my own with the children. I fee sad for them, but from what they say, i get the impression they dont like him much, which is really sad to admit.

its just too much isnt it and hes not likely to change. Weve been together over 20 years. I just dont want this to be my retirement 😟

@KangarooKenny ah yes the 'everyone does it' line
Mine said ' everyone drinks in the morning , ask your friends they'll all agree with me, otherwise why are pubs open in the morning?!' after his bottle of breakfast red

@JustAFew
I gave an ultimatum and made it very clear of the consequences and carried them through

Did you say he’s driving after drinking op?

Yes “everyone does it, everyone has beers on an evening. Everyone drinks like me”

its hard to argue with as people do drink, do talk about drinking but not to this extent. I cant make him see this. I find it sad he drinks at home and can guarantee evenings he will have an alcoholic drink.

re driving, i am talking about the following day and whether it would have cleared from his body in time

Hi there I’m struck that you are worried about having people over and how he will behave. This is most definitely not how everyone lives/what everyone does. It also sounds possible that he’s drinking more than you know about.

Wow that’s a lot. Anything above drinking once or twice per month would be too much for me in a partner and not what I’d want from the father of my children.

I suppose looking back, i mean hes always been a big drinker but would be alcohol free mon-thurs each week, its just slowly built up to this.

i think its now come to the point where i either get on and shut up or leave. I cant do this any longer

Are you at the point where you are making plans to leave? (He won’t change)

If so then will he leave the house one will you have to? You will need support both from Al-anon and from family and friends. It will be a tough road but once you are settled you will make a good new life, with lots to look forward to.

well i think id be ok for money. I work full time, kids are school age. Im hoping he will leave (we rent). Its the scary unknown of being on my own.

But how much positive is he adding to your life? What support does he give?

You will get your self re-established and into new routines. You won’t recognise your old life!

Having peace of mind is far better than being with such a man as you are now.

Look too at his brother and uncle, they both drink to excess too. Alcoholism can also be learnt.

I would seek legal advice re separation and divorce, after all knowledge is power. He may also refuse outright to leave. Better to be on your own too with your kids than to be accompanied as you are now. Your own recovery from this will only start when you have separated from him.

If he has never been checked out then he is heading for problems OP. Blood pressure, heart disease, diabetes, cholesterol etc etc. do you want to end up his carer because that’s a very likely outcome if he carries on like this. My mum and dad (who didn’t have a good marriage) we’re both alcoholics. He died at 59 and mum, whilst still going at 70 odd takes about 8 tablets a day, is housebound and always poorly. It’s not been pleasant watching them to be honest.

You must do what’s right for you. Being on your own is scary but it is also very liberating too. He will never change. Only you can change your behaviour to make life better for yourself.

It is quite a lot.
He'll likely have health issues eventually, plus what it does to his personality, plus the cost of it all.
How much would you say he spends on alcohol each week?

My late husband drank around 120 units a week that I knew of. It was more - he had repeated warnings for drinking at work before they sacked him (after he left the FMH).

He also had many health scares, ignored them and died of heart disease aged 58.

I do wonder if he drinks more. Ive only been adding up the units the last three to four weeks as i just wanted to quantify it, to see how much vs 14 recommended. I was shocked at how much theyve added up to.

i am very independent in the relationship as it is. I socialise on my own pretty much eg with friends or even school parents outside of school. I do all the drop offs/pick ups. Running around to sports clubs. I take on all of the responsibilities - mental load, or it wont get done.

i do worry of the effects of the kids seeing him drinking. I worry if we split up and he has them on a weekend, he will be boozing and i wont be there to get them away from it.

i also worry about his health. For better or worse hey, but not self inflicted surely? I dont want my retirement to be like that. Selfish on my part but also his setting himself up for this in later life

weekly id say he spends around £45-50. When you add that up, its £180-200 a month. Gpd thats a lot. He always says he has no money (we have separate finances)

@JustAFew how old are the DC? Are they close to an age where they get a say in whether or not they want overnights with their dad?

I worked out (back in 2017 so it would be more now) that we were spending £3k a year on alcohol for my husband. Absolutely terrifying.

@pointythings the kids are 9 & 13. What age do they get to decide?

i am now questioning whether he is drinking more than i know about. Today hes been out doing his hobby and came in with a rubbish bag which he took straight to the outside recycle bin. As i was putting some stuff in there a bit later, i opened the bag and there were two empty cans in there. Hes drank 4 cans out of the fridge since being home. When i popped out to the shop earlier, suddenly a bottle of wine has appeared unopened (so far) on the side. He must have got that out of his car. Hes out of control! 🤦🏻‍♀️

I think it will affect the children, and one of them may copy him. I'd be looking for advice on finances if I left the relationship, and seeing a lawyer for half an hour. He is clearly an alcoholic, and nothing you will say will change him unless he decides he wants to . Even then it'll be hard.

@JustAFew dso he's drinking in secret. That's a very bad sign.

Re the DC - both of them will have their wishes taken into account when it comes to contact. Your 13yo's word will carry more weight than the 9yo's though.

However, unless your husband wants to do genuine 50/50 (very unlikely), they will spend more time with you than with him. Right now they are around him and his drinking all the time.

If I were you I would start making preparations to end the marriage. I would also seek support from a group for relatives of alcoholics. The people there have been where you are now so you will feel less alone, and they will be able to help you deal with your emotions.

Please pm me if there are things you want to ask that you don't want to put out here.

People get caught up between "alcoholics" and "normal drinkers".

It's not necessarily one or the other though... think about drinking as a scale.

On the one hand there is Nan who has a thimbleful of Sherry on Christmas Day, and nothing else all year. On the other hand there is the "proper alcy" why drinks a litre of vodka for breakfast. Between them there is a lot of space for problem and heavy drinking that doesn't necessarily fit in with what we traditionally think of as an "alcoholic".

With your DH I think the fact he is hiding his drinks is a big big sign that he has an issue.

@D0lphine Absolutely, i dont think the term alcoholic is helpful these days as you always picture the extreme version. My DH would not agree to that as a description of him as hes in denial. Problem/harmful/heavy drinker are more relatable. Its one thing heavy drinking in your 20s but when your still doing it the wrong side of 40, its pretty sad.

@pointythings i wouldn’t usually check the bin. I watched him come in and he kinda hod the bag so i thought it was worth a look.

he couldnt do 50:50 due to his work hours. Id expect he would like eow/weekends every other

*hid

I think the hiding is significant too. And the refusal to acknowledge it. And the pretending not to know what you are taking about when you raise it.
Plus over 7 x the unit alliance of 14 units is an awful lot.

It’s rare you see him drunk but you can’t have people over in case he’s drinking. Which one is it?

it’s a fair amount but in no way ridiculous to me

@JustAFew EOW and one day a week is better than 7 days a week exposed to this level of dysfunctional drinking, especially as your DC have noticed the effect drink is having on him.

My DDs were 15 and 17 when I kicked mine out. They made it very clear they wanted zero contact and he didn't even try.