Alcohol- how much is too much vs normal?

[JustAFew]

Sorry for posting here rather than the alcohol thread. Just doesn't seem very busy over there.

My DH drinks. I barely in fact on the very odd occasion i do but not regularly, once a year but can take it or leave it.

When i bring up the amount he drinks and try to have a conversation with him about it, he gets very defensive. He will say its nothing to worry about, he doesn't drink excessively and others also drink similar. I get shut down as he will get angry and end the conversation.

for context, he drinks pretty much all week- sometimes one day off a week. When he drinks its usually 4 cans per night tues & weds, 2 pub pints and 4 cans thurs & fri nights and then weekends probably drinks 2 pub pints, 4 cans per day plus half bottle of wine. I would say, depending on what were doing its between 65-100 units a week. I find it hard to know as dont drink but find this amount far too much

he works. Doesnt take time off work due to drinking. He does lack patience with the kids especially when its evening and hes trying to relax with drinks.

i looked through old photos the other night and pretty much all photos he has a beer in his hand.

i just hate it. I feel like i cannot just have family/ friends over spontaneously incase hes drinking. I have had to ask him not to drink too much at occasions before as he just becomes embarrassing.

i do feel like this is coming to a head now and fantasise about being on my own with the children. I fee sad for them, but from what they say, i get the impression they dont like him much, which is really sad to admit.

its just too much isnt it and hes not likely to change. Weve been together over 20 years. I just dont want this to be my retirement 😟

6 cans on a Sunday is hardly ridiculous. If he even drank the other 2 today. It’s obvious you don’t love him and want to leave. You can do that without creating an alcoholic storyline. No-one would leave a good relationship with someone they love because they have a few beers a day. You don’t need an excuse

@Bigchezemakeme Lol hes ocd about his car. He wouldnt leave any rubbish in there.

yes he’s overweight, snores like a pig and sweats/gets ridiculously hot and overheats when im fine.

Night sweats can be a sign of alcohol withdrawal. Honestly OP I'd be making plans to leave. My father is an alcoholic. I've seen what my mother has been through and there is just no way I would tolerate it. It affects the entire family and has done for decades. Alcoholics are selfish, because nothing matters more than their drinking.

@Bigchezemakeme OP's husband drinks between 65 and 100 units a week. That's health damage territory. He hides drinks. He is snappy and unpleasant to his kids when drinking. That's an alcohol problem. If you can't see that, you have a distorted view of what normal drinking is.

@pointythings op doesn’t say he’s snappy and unpleasant to his kids?

she says he’s embarrassing then she rarely seems him drunk so I don’t know which it is

@Bigchezemakeme from the OP:

He does lack patience with the kids especially when its evening and hes trying to relax with drinks.

And he stinks of alcohol to the point where OP cannot bear to sleep in the same bed with him, which suggests he is getting to the point where his body is struggling to metabolise it.

I've been there and it's absolutely a problem. You seem very naive about the impact of heavy drinking. I rarely saw my husband drunk until he started fully going off the rails, but he was drinking 120+ units a week and starting to have major health problems. Don't trivialise this.

I’m not trivialising anything - just pointing out op sounds like she wants to leave regardless. So she should just do so. She doesn’t need to justify it

Im just ignoring @Bigchezemakeme comments as they are unhelpful!

i find him embarrassing as, although I rarely see him drunk, he will sit there opening can after can whilst others are on their first drink.

he is snappy with the kids and i find myself acting as peace maker half the time. If i go out he will start drinking and will hide what hes drank thinking i wont notice

i am now questioning whether he is drinking more than i know about

again….which is it?

If i go out he will start drinking and will hide what hes drank thinking i wont notice

I rarely see him drunk

we can’t socialise because of his drinking

In answer to the OPs original question, this article was published earlier this month:

"Among those aged 40-64, safe alcohol consumption levels ranged from about half a standard drink a day to almost two standard drinks. For those aged 65 or older, the risks of “health loss from alcohol consumption” were reached after consuming a little more than three standard drinks a day.

But on average, the recommended alcohol intake for adults over the age of 40 remained low, peaking at 1.87 standard drinks a day. After that the health risks increased with each drink, the Lancet reported.

Separate research published in the journal PLOS Medicine on Thursday found consumption of seven or more units of alcohol a week was associated with higher iron levels in the brain. Iron in the brain has been linked to Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s diseases and is a potential mechanism for alcohol-related cognitive decline.

Dr Richard Piper, chief executive of Alcohol Change UK, said: “The emerging science on alcohol, over hundreds of studies over the past 20 years, is telling us very clearly that alcohol is very damaging to the human body in multiple ways. We were previously unaware of this, and too many of us continue to drink as though this revolution in our knowledge hasn’t happened.

“If you care about your health, by far the best approach is not to drink at all. If you do choose to drink alcohol, listen properly to the UK’s chief medical officers, and do not exceed 14 units a week (about six pints of lager or a bottle and a half of wine), have at least three alcohol-free days a week, and never exceed more than six units in one day.”

amp.theguardian.com/society/2022/jul/14/alcohol-is-never-good-for-people-under-40-global-study-finds

I am a single male in my 50's and would describe myself as a drinker - Normally a couple of pints of beer in a pub 3-4 times a week and a couple of beers or wine when at home. At times at parties or other friends I will drink a lot more and without it really affecting me or giving me a hangover. Though I was not knocking back spirits and the volumes are not high compared to some I have realised it is an issue and have now stopped regular drinking (orange juice and lemonade in pubs is now my choice).and much more conscious when I do drink alcohol it is social related (wine at a meal etc) . Personally I realized that for me I was using alcohol to suppress anxiety at times and it can hide some personal issues. There is a fine line line between social drinking and drinking to cover something up but is very individual. Trouble is pulling away a bit from the pub culture. I now get much more enjoyment from having the odd beer or glass of wine than I did before, better at being in touch with my emotions and generally feel better about myself. Not much advice to give but perhaps drip feed to him what effect it is doing to his health and how you feel and your relationship,

I grew up in a household with a mum who didn't drink and a dad who was an alcoholic. I very much wish she had left him so I didn't have to grow up with his moods and drinking dominating the house. As I got older I realised how isolating it was and that we all walked on eggshells around him. It wasn't a happy home. It took me a while to get over the resentment towards my Mum for staying with him and I'm now no contact with my father.

I think you are right that you're only choice is to either stay and accept it or leave. I hope you choose to leave.

Get life insurance coverage on him now, before he is diagnosed with liver problems or stomach cancer. Then you will at least have financial support during your retirement.
Also, accept the fact that if your children grow up with this, they are likely to also drink excessively because it is the "normal" thing that "men do".

You don’t need life insurance on him. You need to make a new life for you and the kids away from him. My childhood wasn’t unlike Gloriana’s. It was horrid.

The problem with an alcoholic's behaviour isn't necessarily seeing them classically drunk. We've probably all been out with a friend who's been falling over and making an idiot of themselves. That's not what every alcoholic does. Often the problem is more an awareness of the sheer amount that they're drinking, regardless of whether they're then falling over and vomiting. It's the repeated trips to the bar, or the topping up of the wine before anyone else is a fraction of a way down the glass.

Sharing a meal with an alcoholic, they're either going to proffer alcohol to you, which you repeatedly reject, and then you sit thinking 'well how fucking much are you drinking?' Or they've given up trying to normalise their behaviour by getting you to join in and when you go to top up your wine, you'll find they've drained the bottle.

Alcoholics come in many shapes and sizes and their behaviour has far more impacts than just the appearance of drunkenness.

adultchildren.org/

The what, when, how much he drinks etc is largely irrelevant - AA define an alcoholic as when their consumption impacts the people around them. And often it’s not just the “being drunk” times - their worst behaviour is often when they are hungover with irritation and volatility.

You don’t need to count or track his consumption - you need to pay attention to how YOU feel and how YOU have adapted yourself and your family life to tolerate (and ultimately inadvertently facilitate and enable his problematic drinking)

Don’t waste your breath or headspace on him - focus on your DCs and their emotional well-being which is being severely compromised by an emotionally negligent, unavailable and abusive parent - slowly and consistently their own self esteem MH is being eroded for the long term.

Ask any adult how it still impacts them or have a read of the above link.

Take actions and remove your DCs from this harm. Get support for yourself through Al Anon and for them through Al Ateen.

Don’t underestimate the damage to your children. Focus on them. Be responsible for taking them out of harms way. Don’t worry about your DH he is making active choices each and every drink. Your DC don’t have that luxury.

And often it’s not just the “being drunk” times - their worst behaviour is often when they are hungover with irritation and volatility.

Yes. Dealing with an alcoholic isn't like dealing with somebody who occasionally gets drunk. It's that godawful mood first thing in the morning when they don't want to start drinking, because they're in denial and only an actual alcoholic would drink in the morning. So then they're stressed about where there next drink is coming from and how soon they can get to it. And then every trip out anywhere is dictated by whether or not they can get to alcohol and at what point in the day. So they're either stressed, or intoxicated, and the first state can make them a lot moodier than the second.

Which of course may be partly why the drink, in order to regulate their mood. But you do wish they'd stop drinking and then avoid the stressed, hungover and irritable stage.

My DH is never drunk because he’s used to it. He never drinks in the day, always waits until 8.30 pm for his first drink. He would say he’s not an alcoholic because he doesn’t drink spirits and his consumption isn’t increasing. I’d say he’s reliant on alcohol.

Thats a great article. Thanks for sharing. Ive tried to talk to him about these kind of articles. He just shakes his head and dismisses it. Even documentaries on tv, he leaves the room to watch something else. Ive tried it all in the past.

An alcoholic never defines themselves as such - they are always in denial with themselves and always point and project to someone further along the line - passed out pissing themselves in an underpass, drinking before x time in the day, not drinking spirits etc.

It’s not scary being on your own with children .
Much harder is living with someone who drinks a lot .
The hardest part is splitting up and sorting everything out but once that’s done you can relax in your home .
Wish I had left mine much sooner - life is much less stressful/annoying/frustrating/worrying .
All the best

Thank you for all your replies. Its really given me something to think about

Excessive, functioning alcoholic, the fact he gets defensive tells me he knows it's not good. X

You are financially independent, you and your children would be better of alone, your house would be so much happier.
I hope you find the strength for yourself and your children's sake to go it alone. X

I’d say alcohol consumption interfering with your marriage is a problem. Him being defensive, deflecting the problem onto others, denying he drinks as much as he does are some red flags.
Try this as if you were him. www.drinkaware.co.uk/tools/self-assessment.