I dislike my aduld child :(

[Felida]

I know it sounds horrible and I should never say it out loud. There are days when I despise him, and others when I feel incredibly guilty for it. It's unnatural and I know I shouldn't feel this way, but I just can't help it. Am I the only one who feels like this or are there others who have been here?

Both of my sons are grown up and independent, and while I have a good relationship with one of them the other one seems to decline more and more. We used to get on, but things have become so tense.

My ex husband was a raging narcissist (my then therapist's diagnosis, not mine), and it took me decades to realise this. I worked so hard to overcome the trauma of this relationship, and I am fully aware that I let my children down by having stayed in this unit for so long. I cannot undo the past, and I am aware that it damaged them. One is so much like me that it sometimes scares me...he is gentle and I worry about him, because he runs danger of letting others walk over him. It's his brother though that I struggle with. We used to get on...but the older he gets the more similarities I see between himself and his father, and I don't know what to do about it. I don't even know if I can do anything....

Of course I love him, and part of me is incredibly proud of him. He has some amazing traits, but the negative ones become more obvious now that I have seen them. Part of me thinks it's my fault, but I also don't know what to do about it. I tried talking to him about things, sent him books on the topic, but to no avail.

I'm conflicted and don't know what else to do, or if I can even do anything. It scares me to see how similar he is to his father, and I am really disliking him for it.

It's not something I can discuss with anyone obviously.
Is it just me or have others experienced something like this too?

He has said a few things that I really can't remember, so I'm not sure what to make of this

I grew up in a home that sounds similar to yours. My dad was abusive and my mum stayed and supported him. There are quite a few things that I remember that my mum claims didn't happen. I think it's much easier for the adult to forget a throwaway remark, than it is for the child to forget a remark which shook their whole worldview, e.g. learning what their parents really think of them.

I feel like I let him down big time, but I obviously won't be telling him that.

Why won't you tell him that? If you wanted to heal any other relationship, you'd apologise for anything you'd done to hurt them. Why is it different with your son?

I feel your punishing him for being an extrovert and choosing the career and materialistic goals.

you say he is self centered in conversations with you would you prefer he talks about you?

Instead off phone calls. For a while stick to innocent friendly texts that can't be misunderstood.

As a pp suggested.
You watching anything good on Netflix v
How's the weather
If he likes sports. "Oh Man U did great today (replace with his team)

If his interests are cars, tell him you seen one with a nice nose or doors or whatever.
If he likes music text for a recommendation of a new LP to listen to.

Slowly slowly catchy monkey

FWIW, my Mum and Stepdad (who I call Dad and has been in my life a very long time) broke up a few years ago due to him having an affair. My Mum decided he was a narcissist, told everyone possible this and also sent me a book that she had read on the subject.

I took it as her attempting to alienate me from him. In fact I actually don’t know how she could read the book with a straight face when she’s the narcissist, but that’s a whole other story. Our relationship hasn’t really recovered, he’s still my Dad, I know he hurt her but I don’t want anything to do with their divorce. Maybe your son thinks you’re forcing him to take sides?

Also I don’t speak to my stepdad any more either, and I am very mad at him. I have my own way of coping with what he did. My Mum sending me books isn’t one of them.

You speak on the phone once a week? I'd call that a fairly close relationship.. I don't get on very well with my mum, I see her every 2 or 3 months 🤷🏻‍♀️

I agree with this. Your relationship sounds quite toxic and not just on your sons side. You must realise after therapy that your ex can be a narcissist and you can also have had failings as a parent - the two aren’t exclusive.

I feel like I let him down big time, but I obviously won't be telling him that.

this is honestly THE best thing you could tell him if you’re serious about building a relationship with him

Just to clarify: I sent a copy of the book to both of my sons, and only after I had told them both about how good I found it.
I have apologised to them, and admitted that I made a lot of mistakes and that I wish I could turn things around. My older son just doesn't really react. Blank face or just a pause on the phone. Though when I told him about the book and how I had recognised a lot of stuff mentioned in it, and how I could have been so stupid he said something along the lines of "sure you can't see if when you're in the middle of it all", which was nice. But that's all and then the topic was changed.
Maybe I should apologise again because maybe he hasn't forgiven me.
I think my younger son has forgiven me, and he has told me before that he appreciates that I tried my best and always stood up for him when his father picked on him. I guess I was more focussed on protecting him than my other son because he was not subject to this treatment.
When he first moved abroad he barely got in touch and ignored my calls and messages a lot, but that has gotten better. I guess you're all right about appreciating the good and just accepting the things that might not be ideal.

But you don't know he wasn't subject to this treatment, do you? I think as parents, we like to think we know everything about our children, but if he's closed off with you as an adult it's also likely he kept things from you as a child.

My mums favourite excuse for basically ignoring me all the time was 'oh you were so independent, you didn't need us to look after you!'. But some children and young people don't know how to ask for love and support, especially if they are in a home where there are a lot of hoops to jump through to get it.

the book thing was a bad idea but you can't turn back the clock. The thing is though, you personally have to let go of the stuff with their dad and start seeing your son as a person of his own. You have to start afresh with him if you can and the idea of some benign texts about day to day stuff, as a starting point, is actually a good one.

Oh also. I didn't need my mum to apologise constantly in order for me to forgive her - I needed her to do better. He might not actually welcome an apology out of the blue, as this can be bringing up stuff he doesn't want to confront or deal on that particular day, or ever. It also puts you in the position where he will have to say 'oh it's ok' and somehow then he's comforting you.

Just do better. Try and see him without your preconceptions about who he is colouring the interaction. Start small.

Good lord, OP if I had to speak to my mum once a week I'd dread it and you'd certainly get monosyllabic answers from me. Yes, I know families were this is normal but I also know those where it's not. Please don't think because you "only" speak to him once a week there's anything wrong with that.

I also had trauma as a child and just don't feel emotions like most people. Please don't take this to mean he's not close to you. I would seem very deadpan too if I broke up with someone.

I also agree with some other posters, you're worried about his life because it's not how you'd live yours. It's his life. Sorry to be blunt.

Sure you're his Mum but he is not a child. I hate it when my mum goes into parent mode. Drives me mad and drives me away. I'm an adult.

Please just accept who he is, yes maybe he's this way because of childhood trauma from family life but that's how it is. You can't go back into the past and change it.

I am sure I missed things that were going on, but overall he was the golden child which my ex cherished, and my younger son was the scapegoat. It was things like their father getting christmas or birthday presents for one, and insisting the second one was too undeserving or stupid to get anything. Then I incurred his wrath when I got presents for the second one because both of my children deserved the same attention and recognition.
That situation came to an end when the two collided and they both tried to hurt each other as much as possible. It was horrible and upsetting for everyone involved, but my son moving abroad calmed things down.

Yes, he is not his father. Sometimes the similarities are so obvious, and I am taken aback. I hadn't thought of him having shut himself off.
I'll try to tell the voice inside my head to shut up when the thought come creeping in. Thank you all

You hardly know him at all, you have hardly any contact with him, and the little contact you have is not nice for him. Why on Earth do you think you need to help him or improve him if you don’t even have a real grasp of what he is up to?

In all honesty, I think you lost him long time ago. I would just let him come back at his own time and be far less judgemental when he does.

OP; I feel for you; family estrangement is very challenging

But; you do say quite contradictory things about your son

"My oldest was exposed to a lot of things he should not have been privy to, and I am aware that maybe I wasn't as much of a caregiver to him as I should have been.
He is still plotting his "revenge" on his father which tells me that the anger is still in him, and hasn't subsided."

and then later

"I am sure I missed things that were going on, but overall he was the golden child which my ex cherished, and my younger son was the scapegoat."

I don't think your son would feel that he was a 'golden child' in this situation. It sounds like he experienced some negative impacts.

Comparing your two sons is also perhaps not helpful- you 'like' one child because you find contact easy with him; you 'dislike' the other one because contact is challenging and perhaps he reminds you of his father. You're aware that your son is perhaps holding anger from some of these negative early experiences.

It sounds like you are wanting to find a way to make the relationship work better? Could you consider talking with somebody about this, perhaps a therapist to help you to put these complex feelings into context?

You didn't protect him from his father when he was a little boy.

Then you sent him a book because you recognised stuff about yourself in it, and you wanted him to understand what it was like for YOU and feel sorry for you for doing your Best while you were not protecting him? But he doesn't do that so he must be a narcissist which is the Other Reason you sent him the book, to Give Him The Hint. (Here is a hint for you btw. It isn't him that is the narcissist).

And YOU want him to FORGIVE YOU? And you prefer your other son because he does forgive YOU and- fuck me - he 'understands' how awful it was for YOU?

I am amazed he speaks to you at all. He must be so, so angry with you. Of course he doesn't let you into his real life or his real feelings at all.

That's not at all what I said. I said there was a specific section in the book which addressed how these family dynamics affect children growing up. I have never expected my children to feel sorry for me!

Sorry, it's confusing timelines. He was the golden child until a certain point, which was when our sons stepped in and convinced me (thankfully) that I should no longer accept this way of life. After that he became the opposite.

I think you're projecting your husband onto him.

He probably knows that and resents you for it. Perhaps he doesn't particularly connect with your personality. And as such, when you speak to him he isn't present or really engaged as he just doesn't really want to connect.

I think it sounds like a clash of personalities and he must get so bored of being compared to the person he knows you hate. How do you think that makes him feel?

I think you're putting your own experiences above his. I can see why he finds you difficult to engage with. Talking to you makes him feel judged negatively.

If you want to improve the relationship you need to accept him as he is and avoid judging him do openly.

But he's not a 'golden child'. He's a child that grew up experiencing considerable challenges in the household- and also stepped into an adult role to convince you that your life was not healthy.

I think you're sons feelings on this will be very complex

If you feel like you let your son down so much as a child why wouldn't you tell him that and apologise?

It's ok to say that you never wanted or intended to let your son down but that you nevertheless realise now that you really did and to apologise.

My mother is quite high on narcissistic traits and if she ever said this to me I would appreciate it and feel closer to her.

I suggest that you have more therapy yourself as it's possible that conversations with your son are triggering for you if you haven't fully dealt with your own trauma.

There is a reason you could identify with that book, I agree with the previous poster who suggested you may be the narcissistic one in this situation. I feel incredibly sorry for your adult son for what he had to put up with as a child and now for the way you treat him as an adult, no wonder he doesn’t have much contact. I think you need to work on yourself properly before trying to build a relationship with him before you hurt him again.

You have my sumpathies.
My x was a narc and i sometimes feel like dc2 has no feelings for me or about me. Im close to dc1 but dc2, i am just a resource to be plundered i sometimes feel.
Maybe he will mature.

I hope things weigh on you less going forward. There might not be a solution to this. There isn't always a solution. So i hope that you can get some distance from that feeling that YOU neef to fix things. If you have offered to hear him out and listened if he responded then you can't fix things. He is either not capable of connection or he is holding back.

Stupid bloody message and completely unhelpful - gently meant or no. Not what the OP was on here for I don't think. Jeez..