I dislike my aduld child :(

[Felida]

I know it sounds horrible and I should never say it out loud. There are days when I despise him, and others when I feel incredibly guilty for it. It's unnatural and I know I shouldn't feel this way, but I just can't help it. Am I the only one who feels like this or are there others who have been here?

Both of my sons are grown up and independent, and while I have a good relationship with one of them the other one seems to decline more and more. We used to get on, but things have become so tense.

My ex husband was a raging narcissist (my then therapist's diagnosis, not mine), and it took me decades to realise this. I worked so hard to overcome the trauma of this relationship, and I am fully aware that I let my children down by having stayed in this unit for so long. I cannot undo the past, and I am aware that it damaged them. One is so much like me that it sometimes scares me...he is gentle and I worry about him, because he runs danger of letting others walk over him. It's his brother though that I struggle with. We used to get on...but the older he gets the more similarities I see between himself and his father, and I don't know what to do about it. I don't even know if I can do anything....

Of course I love him, and part of me is incredibly proud of him. He has some amazing traits, but the negative ones become more obvious now that I have seen them. Part of me thinks it's my fault, but I also don't know what to do about it. I tried talking to him about things, sent him books on the topic, but to no avail.

I'm conflicted and don't know what else to do, or if I can even do anything. It scares me to see how similar he is to his father, and I am really disliking him for it.

It's not something I can discuss with anyone obviously.
Is it just me or have others experienced something like this too?

You can't tell a narcissistic they are a narcissist.

I'd be seriously upset if anybody sent me a psychology book pinpointing my negative personality traits!

I don't think you're to blame here. An unhappy childhood though will have a damaging effect well into adulthood. It's a shame your son feels he can't have a full relationship which might help him heal. Maybe he thinks he knows where he is with money I don't wanna let him down.

Do either of the boys see their dad or have any contact with him?

Neither speak to their father. I am ashamed to admit that I probably would have stayed with my ex husband had it not been for my boys stepping in. My oldest was exposed to a lot of things he should not have been privy to, and I am aware that maybe I wasn't as much of a caregiver to him as I should have been.
He is still plotting his "revenge" on his father which tells me that the anger is still in him, and hasn't subsided.

Thanks for the responses everyone. I will give my son a call today to tell him that I love him and that I am very proud of him. I feel like I let him down big time, but I obviously won't be telling him that.

Have you had counselling about why you would stay with an abusive man? Have you sincerely apologised to your children for staying so long? Have you given them reasons for this that they can understand?

The ex husband wasn’t even diagnosed - it was the OP’s therapist who ‘diagnosed’ him a ‘raging narcissist’ - but the ex husband wasn’t the patient I assume and therefore the therapist shouldn’t have really made comment or passed judgement on him. They certainly can’t ‘diagnose’ him without seeing him directly.

I would focus on whether these traits are limiting his enjoyment of his own life or just triggering your PTSD.

Do you think if your conversations with your son were just supportive and based on agreeable topics e.g. what you're watching on Netflix, then they wouldn't be so intense? Try to see the good in him. Is he hard-working? Does he always keep his jobs? Does he get good reviews at work? Has he got a stable home?

Focus on the ways he is different from his dad. There must be plenty of ways. Try to bring them into the conversation so that you are praising him for being himself rather than blaming him for being like his father. Even if you don't actually say the latter it sounds as though he's getting the hint that's what you think.

Try to bring into conversations "what I love about you is…"

You can always send little messages such as "I'm a bit bored at the moment, are you watching anything good on Netflix?" There is no way this can lead to an argument or a judgement on his personality.

I worry about him, because he runs danger of letting others walk over him.

This jumped out to me - partly because it's an example of how you feel closer to that son because you feel he is like you. His 'flaws' are only being too 'gentle' and that makes you worry and want to protect him. Whereas the other doesn't need your protection, but you don't see that as a positive. Possibly he does have some objectively negative traits, but it seems more that it's about you not being similar. We all worry about our kids, but with one you're worrying that he's too nice and the other you're worrying he's not nice enough. It's hard I know, but given that they're both adults, you have to let them be themselves and not think you can influence or change them so much. You've already had influence, for better or worse, through nature and nurture. Now take them as they are, with their good and bad qualities, just as you have good and bad qualities and they might not always like you.

I had counselling and I know why I stayed with him for so long. At some stage my self esteem had been so eroded that I didn't think I could leave, and I was a mess for quite a while after. Foolishly I had stayed because I thought the children would suffer if I left and broke up the family.
My oldest claimed that I had told him that I had been trapped after I had children, but I genuinely don't remember saying such a thing and I seriously hope I didn't. He has said a few things that I really can't remember, so I'm not sure what to make of this. My children are the best thing that ever happened to me, and that's definitely something I tell them.

Thank you. These are some really good suggestions.
He's very successful and adaptable in his work life and I am incredibly proud of him because I have no idea how he does he does.
But that's all he wants ...money, career, the recognition. A partner until they bore him. His relationships are unstable and a genuine "theme" is that he thinks everyone around him is an idiot, and this includes his partners. This is the thing that worries and saddens me.

I'll try to put these thoughts aside and focus on the positives of which he has plenty too. It is true, my younger son and I are much more alike than my older son and I. Maybe it's his fierce independence that intimidates me...

I'll try to connect more now that I know he is single again because he might feel lonely, and when he comes to visit me in a few months time I will make sure that we get to spend time alone and do some stuff that he enjoys.

We spoke yesterday and he told me that he broke up with his girlfriend, and there was not a shred of emotion or compassion in him. I felt sad and sorry after the call because I've heard it all before..

People who have been hurt have a tendency to construct strong, almost impenetrable defences to protect themselves from it happening again. This often presents as emotional detachment, and can be a sign of previous emotional/mental trauma. You are (understandably) reliving your
experience with your ex, because you feel you can see the same traits in your son. But your son is not your ex, he is his own person who is dealing with his own experience and hurt in the only way he knows how.

Thanks for the responses everyone. I will give my son a call today to tell him that I love him and that I am very proud of him. I feel like I let him down big time, but I obviously won't be telling him that.

Why not tell him that as well? It might be what he needs to hear. It would be a sign of great strength from you, rather than weakness, to admit that you wished you’d done things differently.

Sometimes guilt is inappropriate and causes untold misery. What did you do wrong? - OK sending him the book was a bit of a clanger - but when he was small you were trying to deal with a difficult partner. I am sure you did your best - that is what parenting is about, simply doing our best. No child is brought up in an ideal home.

I believe you are over-thinking this - there is your son, living his own life, making contact now and again, and you are picking this apart, looking for things to feel bad about, searching for traits that you think connect him with his father. What is it you are wanting from him? - more contact, warmer personality, expressions of love etc. These things are not always so obvious with adult sons as they are with daughters - a generalisation I know, but that is my experience, and that of my friends.

I think you need to just accept him as he is - praise him and show your pride when good things happen; sympathise with the bad things, but do not treat each phone call as a test in your mind as to whether he is shaping up to your expectations, or confirming your fears for him. I think you need to cool it a bit, both in your contacts with him and in your own mind.

We do our best to give our children good childhood experiences, then we let them fly and they will make of it what they will and become what they will. Just tell him you love him when you call (in a jolly parting way .... bye, love you ..... not a heavy breast-bearing big number) - keep the contacts light and unthreatening - and stay away from bookshops!!!

What you seem to have in addition to this is the background of having been with a narcissist. At some point you will be triggered by your kids behaviour. That is potentially very difficult for you and potentially also for them.
I think this is a really important point in @stayingpositiveifpossible post.

My STBXH is emotionally abusive, gas lights and so on. My DC are still very young but they sometimes copy his behaviours and sometimes it triggers me. I have to consciously pull myself up on that and remind myself that just because they're coping a negative behaviour that has been normalised for them doesn't mean they're like him. They are still very young, they haven't lived most of their childhood seeing this. You said one son is like you and the other is more like him, but what you're seeing are the lessons they learnt growing up. Maybe the son you dislike feels safer acting how his father did, maybe it's subconscious, maybe his is like him or maybe he's reacting to a subconscious reaction you have because you see his Dad in him.

I think trying counselling again is a great idea. Find a counsellor you click with, the right one can make a world of difference. Work on that first, then come back to this issue, see if you still dislike your son as much when you no longer view him through the eyes of the trauma your Ex inflicted on you.

This is a pretty horrible thing to do. I don't think you meant it to but I can see why he'd keep you at arms length.
Things like him not showing emotion when telling you about breaking up with his girlfriend... he likely was emotional about it but didn't want to share that side of things with you as you're not close/finds your behaviour towards him challenging.

I've been listening to Stephen Bartlett and his diary of a CEO podcast where he has been saying how he realised he wasn't having successful relationships because his view of marriage was that, for his father, it was a prison. His parents' marriage was violent and full of arguments due to his mother's anger. Consequently he would seek out relationships but when it came to commitment he just couldn't do it.

I wonder whether there is something in this for your son. Why would he seek out relationships when he's seen firsthand how toxic they can be? Maybe he's getting out before he commits or maybe he's getting out at the first sign of trouble.

It would be great if he could listen to those podcasts. They are very very popular at the moment and as Stephen is only 29 your son might be able to identify with him. They cover a lot of topics and he always interviews interesting people.

My mother told me things she shouldn't have and doesn't remember. She starts telling me something with "you never knew..." But I did, I knew because as a tween she told me many things about her abusive childhood and my abusive parent that no child whose not a mature adult should have to hear. I went the other way, I'm more like the son you like and I ended up in an abusive marriage where I'm to blame for everything.

You need to make it clear to him that he isn't responsible for any of what happened when he was a child and teen. You decided staying was the best of what's sometimes only different bad options. That you realise now it would have been better to leave. That your sorry for what he went through. You can't undo the past, but you can make it clear none of that is his burden to bare.

You don't like your adult child because he doesn't engage with you more.

There's a reason for that as you've indicated. Not had a great upbringing with the father...but you stayed in that relationship and let your kids live in that environment. Yep....I probably wouldn't want such a close relationship with you either.

Leave him be. He's made it clear.

I think the best way to have a good relationship with your children is to act as though you like them even if you don't at that moment. They are not going to want to talk or be with someone who clearly doesn't like them.

I think that you should tell him, perhaps not during a phone call but a frank letter which acknowledges the problematic past, the mistakes you made and how it may have affected him. I would keep it free of any criticism of him, at all. If he thinks you are drawing comparisons with the father he clearly loathes, he will totally (and understandably) shut down

Did you ever tell him you were sorry? Sorry for the chaotic home that he was raised in, sorry for your part in it. Sorry for how his childhood was? Did you ever acknowledge it?

I am no contact with my mother. There was a 'big thing' that happened in the end but actually most of what our relationship was before that was the kind of stuff you are talking about.

She was judgemental about my life (opposite to the way you are judgemental OP - she thought I lacked ambition and didn't focus enough on progression and making a living), didn't think I dealt with relationships in the 'right' way and made no real effort with me, whilst simultaneously getting annoyed that I wasn't making enough effort with her. My brother, on the other hand, could do no wrong. She even sent me a self help book about difficult family relationships on my 30th birthday. I'm not kidding, a lot of what you wrote resonated with me. And not in a good way.

As I say, we are NC now but it was not a great loss because the relationship was so weak in the first place. It was almost inevitable that in a bigger conflict situation our relationship would just crumble. You are at real risk of ending up the same way.

My main advice, from the other side - stop deciding what and who he is. From what you say, you barely know the guy. You have never really mended what was broken with him from the stuff with his dad, and it may be too late now, but you can get to know him for who he actually is and try to appreciate that, rather than always viewing him through the lense of how he is or isn't like his dad and brother. Try, really try, to see how that might make him feel? It's like he's not a real person to you - he's a construction of what you have decided he is like in relation to other people you know.

Try to get to know him like he's a stranger. What does he like? What is he like? He will never open up to you until you actually let him be himself, which is why he keeps you at arms length and only gives you the facts about his relationship breakdowns rather than telling you about his feelings.

Clearly I am biased but the problem here is you, not him. Yeah he might be an absolute arsehole, loads of people are, but you haven't actually tried to find out what he's like because you've already decided.

Don't dump on him out of the blue, but if the occasion arrises, do apologise for staying and what he has been through. Do apologise for the things you said when he mentions them instead of dismissing or denying it ever happened.

Most importantly, as long as he is not actually mean or hurting anyone, accept him for who he is. Not who you think he should be or who he sounds like and how much he isn't like the son you like. Atm he's not good enough for you, and even if you never actually stated it, trust me he knows it. Just because he doesn't react or behave the way you would or think he should that doesn't mean he's wrong or that there's something wrong with it. Accept that,suck it up and deal with it. In time , the relationship should improve.

Do you think its clear to your sons that you like one because hes like you, and you don't like the other because you see him like his dad?
Do they talk? As assuming if they do and you've only sent the one you don't like the 'you're a narcissist' book then that's going to be upsetting.