Financial secrets

[ponderingpenguins]

Married 20 years. 4DC, aged 13-7.

Just discovered that DH has racked up £20K of debt, and not been paying it. I have been working super hard the last two years, retraining, and so he has been dealing with all of the banking.

Sadly it's not the first time he has been financially irresponsible. It happened when we first got married. Then again, 7 years later when he asked to take responsibility for finances again.

I had all financial responsibility until two years ago, and I stupidly believed that with two decent salaries going in, and the fact that he is 47 and more mature, it would be ok? I know, I know, I know...

He just keeps saying that he is sorry, and crying, he got lost. That he loves me. He won't discuss it, hasn't kept paperwork or even records of everything. He didn't even know how much he owed exactly. I have had to sit down, make phone calls and piece everything together myself.

I have paid off all but £2K with my personal savings.

Now, I am 45, with absolutely nothing left to my name and 4DC to think about.

I am genuinely considering asking him for a divorce. I do not want to be legally vulnerable. I do not want anyone else to have the ability to do something in my name. How many times do I give him a chance?

The only thing keeping me from asking him to leave is that he is a wonderful hands-on father and the children will be broken hearted.

We really do have a happy family life normally.

I don't know whether this anger will pass, or if the marriage is over, or if I should ask him for a quiet divorce and continue cohabiting for the sake of our children and see where our relationship goes, until they have all left home?

My head's a mess.

Thoughts?

It’s not the debt itself, it’s the covering up. And once the trust is gone, how much actual relationship is there left?

How does one not pay bills for months or years without ramifications such as electric shut off or mortgage foreclosure or car repossessed?

Yes, where IS the money that was not paid?

Agree 100% with what @D0lphine wrote. He should pay you back your £18k and you should draw up a financial agreement that means should you divorce in the future he can't touch it.

He needs to find ways to raise that money. Selling stuff, borrowing from his parents, working overtime.

He also needs to step up domestically, you are at risk of burn out.

Yeah, and with all she had to juggle, he volunteers not to handle the kids or housework or whatever, but to take over the one thing they both know he's shit at: the money.

Something fishy there.

OP says he is a hands on father which he would have to be considering she apparently works 16-20 hours a day, works away alot and has said there is no outside help.

I think this is worse than gambling. He said he would take on the finances to "ease your load" then did precisely nothing.

So he watched you work and work, knowing that you thought he was pulling his weight with the finances but in reality he was doing nothing.

The reminders started to arrive with penalties and he did nothing. He knew this was happening and he let it all unfold whilst you were working your fingers to the bone.

Now he cries but still does nothing.

Sounds to me like some real fucked up passive aggressive shit that he's pulled. He must really hate you.

I know hoppinggreen's story helped you but it sounded like she got into debt by overspending. All your husband had to do was pay a few bills and he couldn't even do that.

OP have you spoken to him about this again?

I think there are different issues at play here.

Firstly, has he spent the money on something else and lied to you about it? Because that's very different than being late/forgetting to pay and racking up penalties.

Secondly, the division of labour obviously needs to be reconsidered, especially if you will be assuming control of the finances moving forward.

I'm going to go against the grain here and say providing that he just fucked up, and he wasn't spending the money elsewhere, I don't think he's a terrible person. I don't think he's a thief or a terrible dad/partner etc. But he clearly can't be trusted in this area.

I will share a brief version of my story. I am autistic and have ADHD - and as part of this I struggle to deal with things. I'm a professional with a very good career, an independent woman, with DC that I raised without a partner for some years. No one would ever know what a state I get in. I'm always seen as the person who is a high achiever.

I managed to accrue a £6k tax bill from HMRC that was purely penalties. I didn't owe them a thing - the £6k was 100% penalties. During the same period, I had bailiffs for unpaid parking fines, multiple bailiffs for unpaid council tax, and so many, many debt collectors for random things that I'd forgotten to pay. Oh yes, and the mortgage company issued a repossession order on the house (didn't go through with it). Even when I have the money to pay the bill, sometimes I get overwhelmed and can't do it. I know it sounds ridiculous. I know. And then I get behind and then it gets worse.

I sorted it all out on my own and got back on my feet again but I still find it so, so hard. And the shame of struggling is even worse. When you get behind, there's a deep deep shame that you've fucked it up and then you feel unable to address it. Even though you know it's not going away. And then there's the shame of why you couldn't cope in the first place. A simple life skill. How utterly ridiculous..... Just shame. Humiliation for being a crap human.

Believe it or not, I still manage my own finances and those of the house. But when I'm finding something hard I talk to my DP. I had an issue recently with a utility supplier. They'd stopped collecting a direct debit and I'd contacted them about four times asking them to PLEASE recommence payment as I would be racking up a big bill (electricity). They didn't. I sent another (the 5th one) message to them and this time I got a shitty reply informing me it was "too late" and a coin meter thingy was going to be fitted. FFS. I was SO pissed off and this time it wasn't my fault. Historically I would have just buried my head but I asked my DP to help me. We rang them together and got it sorted.

It's taken me many years to be able to say "I'm struggling, please help." I'm not suggesting your DH is autistic or has ADHD but there might be an element of executive dysfunction where he just gets overwhelmed, and then feels ashamed. If he's spending frivolously on gambling etc then please ignore all of this. But if it's just the fact that he gets overwhelmed and screws things up, please try not to judge him too harshly. I understand your anger entirely - I was FURIOUS at myself and I still hate myself for being so utterly fucking useless - but if he contributes positively in other ways, then maybe you both need to work out your relative strengths and weaknesses and share things out in that way?

OP says he is a hands on father which he would have to be considering she apparently works 16-20 hours a day, works away alot and has said there is no outside help.

She did say he was hands-on but then clarified:

I have been running the house, working a full time job, managing DC (we have no help in any form, so I pick them up from school etc.)and then studying on a night. He has been working his normal 8h day, I have been managing everything else, and so said he would take this to ease my load. Which I was grateful for.

I'd have a fairly strong suspicion this guy does very little beyond his own job & spending excessively.

@SpidersAreShitheads

I think your situation and the reasons for what happened are very different to OP's.

It really doesn't matter what he spent it on. In my case, people always seemed bemused that my ex ran up so much debt on ... nothing. However, the reality is that if you spend more than you have, consistently, you will accrue debt.

When you have responsibilities, and dependents, this becomes unacceptable and grossly unfair.

He knows what he is like. There is no excuse for him not addressing it.

And taking over the finances, while OP is completely tied up with family / work / retraining, has a degree of active choice & planning.

I cannot see this in any way as just 'poor man, bad with money'. He's being abusive.

Manage the money yourself forever from here on in.

at least it’s not gambling but a lack of ability or education around money

also a years sex ban!

Which is why it has been asked unpteen times who looks after the DC whilst she is working away and virtually 24hours a day when there is no outsidw help.

Both can't be true and what is happening with the poor DC

Both can't be true and what is happening with the poor DC

It's not the point of the thread?

I would think OP collects DC, sorts out dinner & then goes back to training / study, on an average day.

I assume being away overnight is less usual & they sort that out between them.

She is writing about her husband accruing massive debt. That's the issue. Why do you keep going on about the childcare for the 'poor DC'?

@ponderingpenguins even if as you've said, you're not going to answer any further questions we ask. At the very least you need to consider for yourself the following:

You say "But it wasn't for anything non essential. He simply hadn't paid them, and then ignored all the reminders."

With respect this statement makes no sense.

You've had to dip into your savings because the money that should have been used to pay the essential bills has gone. If it was a case of the essential we're not paid but the money was still there you wouldn't have had to dip into savings.

Your husband should be honest with you. Something is not adding up. Either you're massively overspending on essentials as a family, or your husband has frittered the money on non essential items.

This you need to know where the money for the bills went because he has clearly spent it on something.
I would divorce him he is a liar he knows what he spent the money on and refuses to tell you.

And finally - he can't answer questions? He can't tell you where it went? That's classic - of course he can. He's a sentient adult. He doesn't want to. He doesn't want to face up to it or take responsibility. He wants you to do that

Exactly this 👆 He knows where the money's gone - he must do, he's the one that spent it! But he’s quite happy to sit back and watch OP go to the bank and try to find out from them where it’s gone, while saying nothing to his wife who’s running herself ragged keeping it all together?

What a prince.

If you do a risk assessment he'll score extremely high on doing the same thing again.

It's your choice if you want to be in a relationship where you can't trust your other half.

I see it as having to parent an adult
Everyone is entitled to one mistake... he's made two... and not learnt anything.

Similar happened to a family member but worse. Had to remortgage to address. She stayed but relationship is dead!

I don't think it's fair to blame you for taking your eye off ball given you were doing so much. I do think a marriage as unequal as your in terms of competence will be difficult to sustain.

She is writing about her husband accruing massive debt. That's the issue. Why do you keep going on about the childcare for the 'poor DC'?

Because I grew up in this sort of shit show and it damages DC whether people think it does or not.

If OP didn't want it brought up then she shouldn't have mentioned them. You aren't the thread police.

Divorce him and make him hand over 50% of the equity of the house plus money equivalent to the debt you have paid off for him over years - so the 20,000 plus whatever was previously owed and paid off. That way he pays for his mistake. You can stay together but you won't be exposed financially if he is reckless in the future. You can also choose to leave if you find you can't forgive this betrayal and if (as is likely) it happens again in the future. Good luck OP

What are you talking about?

You're nitpicking about childcare arrangements.

The thread, and OP's question, is what to do about her DH accruing a not-unsubstantial €20k debt.

It's really you who are trying to police the thread by going on about an irrelevant point. The kids were looked after - she didn't abandon them I'm confident.

I would love to know how you'd achieve this!

Divorce sadly won't allow OP (or me, in my case) recoup the money spent dealing with your spouse's debts.

"Make him" how exactly?

@SpidersAreShitheads there was a thread a while back from a wife describing her husband with ADHD and this story from OP reminded me of her frustrations. So, your specific money/bill related story resonates. I think the big difference is you have a diagnosis and you know you struggle. Your DP has something to work with.

OP your DH might be struggling with something. Worth exploring that?