Financial secrets

[ponderingpenguins]

Married 20 years. 4DC, aged 13-7.

Just discovered that DH has racked up £20K of debt, and not been paying it. I have been working super hard the last two years, retraining, and so he has been dealing with all of the banking.

Sadly it's not the first time he has been financially irresponsible. It happened when we first got married. Then again, 7 years later when he asked to take responsibility for finances again.

I had all financial responsibility until two years ago, and I stupidly believed that with two decent salaries going in, and the fact that he is 47 and more mature, it would be ok? I know, I know, I know...

He just keeps saying that he is sorry, and crying, he got lost. That he loves me. He won't discuss it, hasn't kept paperwork or even records of everything. He didn't even know how much he owed exactly. I have had to sit down, make phone calls and piece everything together myself.

I have paid off all but £2K with my personal savings.

Now, I am 45, with absolutely nothing left to my name and 4DC to think about.

I am genuinely considering asking him for a divorce. I do not want to be legally vulnerable. I do not want anyone else to have the ability to do something in my name. How many times do I give him a chance?

The only thing keeping me from asking him to leave is that he is a wonderful hands-on father and the children will be broken hearted.

We really do have a happy family life normally.

I don't know whether this anger will pass, or if the marriage is over, or if I should ask him for a quiet divorce and continue cohabiting for the sake of our children and see where our relationship goes, until they have all left home?

My head's a mess.

Thoughts?

He told you clearly who he was the previous two times he mismanaged the finances. You chose not to listen

Yes. He’s done it three times and it’s clearly a lifestyle choice.

OP: I paid, because we always had shared finances. As his wife, I am legally liable.

Are you sure this is correct? Appreciate you are in another jurisdiction.

In the UK, I am not liable for dh's debts racked up in his own name. Unless they were joint bills. Were those penalties levied on you too?

Honestly if you cannot leave him ,you should just let him go bankrupt and make sure your finances are separate. He is irresponsible and financially incontinent. What a loser and a liability.

I have been running the house, working a full time job, managing DC (we have no help in any form, so I pick them up from school etc.)and then studying on a night. He has been working his normal 8h day, I have been managing everything else, and so said he would take this to ease my load. Which I was grateful for.

Why are you working plus doing everything else, whilst all he does is have a job and fuck up your finances? Even if he was responsible with money, this division of labour is very unfair.

I did ask who is looking after the DC whilst OP is apparently working 16-20 hour days and long stints away from home.

I'm so sorry that you are facing this.

Completely understand that you are still in the process of getting to grips with this whole troublesome business.

Id really encourage you to get to the bottom of what caused the problem in the first place. I struggle to understand how £20k worth of penalties could build up? Was the money to pay those bills really just sitting in the account? Where did the debts really come from?

That seems so far fetched and he is being so passive, leaving you to find out the state yourself while he watches you, that I would have to pierce together some coherent narrative before deciding what to do in the longer term.

By all means get on with stabilising the situation in the immediate term. But before deciding where to go with this, do bottom out the real issues.

Only 'official' debts will show up on a credit check. There may be others, incurred more informally, which don't.

You're not legally liable as in the utility companies etc can't pursue you. On divorce they would come out of the joint pot though.

This assumes they were in his name only of course, they could easily be in hers or on joint names.

Get some legal advice. You don’t have to act on it but it will form part of your decision making process.

He can never be responsible for finances or have access to savings again if you stay married and you want financial security. How does that sit with you??

What are his suggestions to sort out this mess?? If he has none, then that’s something else to consider.

I also agree that you don’t come across as a team. It sounds like you were keeping the family running and he offered to take on the finances as it was all too much for you. I know you think you have a good marriage but it’s feeling more like a one man band to me where he is just a passenger not a contributor. It’s very easy to be jolly and calm etc when the other person is doing all the work. I’m saying this so that you don’t take on board any accusations that you were grumpy, tired, busy etc. Men who don’t pull their weight should be ignored if they say that kind of thing.

I really hope that no other issues come to light. Best wishes with your decision.

It sounds like you were keeping the family running and he offered to take on the finances as it was all too much for you

Yes. He grabbed the opportunity to get his hands on money when he knew the OP would probably be too distracted to keep an eye on what was happening to it.

My ex husband did this and I paid off the debts. Then he got secret credit cards and kept going with the spending, as he couldn't handle his spending being scrutinised. But it became clear that he was always going to be the kind of person who put his head in the sand, couldn't face up to consequences, was happy leading a double life and would lie if confronted.

This is basically a personality type that doesn't change. If he is lying about money, what else is he lying about? I got divorced and the sheer relief of not clearing up his messes has been beyond my expectations. This man is not a keeper.

Yep this story doesn't add up. Unless you have been able to clone yourself. If you are working a fulltime job, how are you picking up from school? You are married to a loser though, not paying bills, seriously? And its hard to understand where the money is that wasn't used to pay bills?

It's not just the debt. Your husband has and is making things worse, first by lying and now not being honest with you as to what happened to the money that should have been spent on bills bust wasn't. This absolutely is relevant. Either as a household you're spending beyond your means, or your husband has been wasting it on non essential items at the expense of billls.

You've said you don't know and will be speaking to the bank. I wouldn't be able to forgive his frankly untrustworthy behaviour. He should be open with you and tell you what he did with the money instead of paying bills.

The money actually sounds like the tip of the iceberg. Why has he been working an 8 hour day while leaving you to do literally everything else? You say he has good qualities but it doesn't sound like much of a partnership.

Yes but if he didn't pay them, where did the money go that was there to pay them originally?

Honestly OP if you stay with him you're basically going to have to mother him like another child, another responsibility, an extra burden. Is ghat how you want to live your life? It'd be a no from me.

Where to start - this is beyond awful...

@ponderingpenguins - this is him. He is not going to change. This will be your life for the rest of your days if you stay. Let this sink in.

Somebody mentioned that you need to consider not just credit cards but check he hasn't filched pension savings investments remortgaged the home etc. Very important this! But do you really want to spend your life keeping checks on someone you cannot trust?

You say he is a good man and you have a happy family life. But also that you run yourself ragged working and doing everything, whilst he works normal 8 hour days. I put it to you that he is selfish and irresponsible and doesn't actually care about his family's welfare. I'm sure he does the talk, but words are cheap........ what about what he actually DOES?

You say you are in a country where you are not totally fluent in the language. This puts you at a disadvantage. Is it his country? What are the divorce and custody laws? Would you want to return to the UK if you divorced - if so, would he permit you to take the children?

Don't throw it all away OP. If he is a wonderful hands-on dad and the dc will be broken hearted as you say, you're potentially opening up a whole new set of problems by divorcing. Your dc are still young. Divorce can be absolutely devastating in every sense. Life is more than just finances.

If he can be relied on to pull his weight with the kids and share the emotional load in that respect, you will have a peace of mind that money just cannot buy. A good dad and reasonably happy parents are worth their weight in gold as far as the dc's future is concerned.

You'll be no better off divorced, and if he's financially unreliable, he's going to be a nightmare with dc maintenance and you will be permanently stressed with work and 4dc.

He fucked up, massively and you're justifiably furious. But you won't let that happen again and will be the one dealing with all the finances.

What are his suggestions about taking responsibility and moving forward?

Me too.
he’s done nothing to fix the problem.
cried, and made it the OP’s problem.
Hes made this your punishment for giving him the responsibility. You won’t do that again.
I couldn’t trust him, and I wouldn’t stay either.

My ex was financially abusive.

He continuously accumulated debts, which I paid off over & over again. I reorganised our finances, took more control & used my own savings to pay of debts.

No gambling, drugs or any one specific reason for spending.

Generally lifestyle & socialising - coffees, lunches, a few drinks. It got worse when we had DC, high creche fees & little disposable income. But he'd accumulated nearly €40k in debt before our marriage when he had a decent salary & no dependents / responsibilities.

By the end of our marriage I had nothing, savings exhausted & I was broken.

There were a lot of other issues in our marriage so it's not the same as OP's happy marriage in other ways (tho I question how great a dad he is as he seemingly left OP to do everything while he 'looked after' squandered carelessly their money).

OP you clearly need to find out the details - as PP have said, it's not 'just' €20k - it's that plus the amounts that were there for bills that he didn't pay.

One way or the other the facts are it is a massive breach of trust - I'd question if that's recoverable; it's a repeat issue so he has no desire to change & is happy to respect you; you are making yourself financially vulnerable to sort out his problems.

I personally can't see a way forward as the trust is gone. And finally - he can't answer questions? He can't tell you where it went? That's classic - of course he can. He's a sentient adult. He doesn't want to. He doesn't want to face up to it or take responsibility. He wants you to do that.

Please think really carefully about what matters. I can tell you that trying to manage all the finances, put checks & balances in place to stop it happening & basically be the only adult, is soul-destroying.

He's not a w

He's not a wonderful dad.

He took advantage of OP's working / studying long hours to spend 10s of 1000s of their money which he cannot explain

It's now OP who is going around to banks and piecing it all together! (I did this, too)

He's a disgrace. And I can tell you from experience that even an unreliable ex in terms of maintenance (what I have) is better than being in a marriage with zero trust & full of despair & fear.

And kids do best in a loving, respectful, honest marriage - so stop the nonsense about the impact of divorce on kids.

"And kids do best in a loving, respectful, honest marriage - so stop the nonsense about the impact of divorce on kids".

Precisely. This is built on sand and I would think the DC know a lot more about their parents dysfunctional codependent relationship than either of them care to realise. And indeed, he is not a wonderful dad either. Women in poor relationships often write the "good dad" comment when they can think of nothing else positive to write about their man.

Enabling your H like you have done to date and repeatedly because he's messed up, neither helps him or you. It gives you a false sense of control and this will happen again if you keep on enabling him and shielding him from the consequences of his own actions. What on earth are these children learning about relationships here; both of you are teaching them damaging lessons on this in your own ways.

@EarringsandLipstick

Nailed it, word for word.

A bloody disgrace is what he is.

A thief and a liar from his wife and children.

Absolute waster.

I could only be angry with my husband if he had a gambling problem and built up debt on a card I did not know about.

But it sounds like this is general expenses. Despite his past problems you advocated all responsibility to him and for two years did not look at anything yourself. We are all busy, we still have to look after our money.

I think this is every bit as much your fault as it is his. And it isn’t “your savings” it is family money. Why are you building up savings you call your own whilst not having to bother yourself with paying any of the bills or running a household.

I don’t have a view on whether you stay or go, you certainly don’t see pm to be working as a team. But I think it would be very unfair to go because of debts which either directly or indirectly have been accumulated jointly (you by turning a blind eye to finances completely and him by ignoring bills).

Women in poor relationships often write the "good dad" comment when they can think of nothing else positive to write about their man.

Yes. 10 years ago in the throes of my abusive marriage I would have said 'good dad' about my financially irresponsible, lazy, gaslighting H. I said 'oh he'll always be around for the kids' when it ended, unaware of how badly it was possible for him to let them down.

I read your post in disbelief.

The OP was working long hours & studying while managing everything else, including their house & 4 DC (no childcare).

You can argue there should be a better way to manage finances. But to place blame at her door ....😡

How about the H didn't squander their money on god-knows-what? And face up to debt & unpaid bills earlier?

Do you think that might have prevented the problem? 🤔