Difficult relationship with 8 year old.

[avocadodi]

Please help me to feel not so alone.
I have an 8 year old daughter. I love her, obviously, but she's such hard work.
She whinges 24 hours a day, she's argumentative, rude, fussy, always feels hard done by. Nothing is ever good enough for her.
She's not very resilient, if something is difficult she'd rather quit.
At meal times she thinks everyone else has more than her, she thinks her little brother has more toys, better friends, nicer trainers etc etc.
She has absolutely everything in the world she could possibly want. Hundreds of pounds of extra curricular activities, nice clothes, a nice house, pets, a couple of friends, large extended family, lovely holidays.
I'm really trying hard not to show her that ultimately I'd rather not be around the whinging and moaning.
Honestly I'll take her out for a girls day and buy her clothes, and toys, and get her lunch.
Then she'll moan that I should have bought her more toys, or 2 pairs of trainers.
I am at a complete loss.
I know she's spoilt, but where do I go from here?

She doesn't appreciate anything because you've never said no to her.

You've tried to be her mate not her mum.

Your solution to her whinging is to buy more stuff not remove the stuff she's just got and is ungrateful for.

You have a spoilt ungrateful child because you haven't parented in the first place.

Start with the word no and be tough. She won't like it, but it will do her far more good than your current relationship.

I get that it doesn't work for every kid, but the point stands that if a child is overwhelmed, quiet is a tonic.

Mrs Salt? Is that you?

Your problem here is she is spoilt. She's 8 - what is she doing with a games console anyway? That can go away until secondary school. Just tell her you've considered it, and she can have it back when she's older. Not negotiable, you don't need to give a lengthy explanation other than 'because I said so'.

Do you do time outs?

Make sure you don't give her everything she wants.

Perhaps have an audiobook at bedtime for Charlie and the chocolate factory, hopefully she'll realise Veruca is not painted in a good light!!

dear op, i work with autistic adults and this sounds very similar. i would advise making an appointment with your gp to get a referral for an assessment. goodluck xx

I don't think the child is spoilt I think the child is most like adhd/asd but only now is the mask slipping

She is a struggling little girl who needs understood not told she is naughty and spoilt.
OP please get your child a referral

X

She sounds very unhappy. I wouldn't go down a discipline/punishment route here. I would be looking to find out what is making her feel the way she does. If you can find the cause here you can turn it around with positivity. A punishment is only going to lead to a never ending battle that neither of you want.

Sorry, but this made me laugh, you have summed up the essence of ADD in one paragraph. Your kids sound awesome btw (not withstanding the hard work they bring).

She sounds like a normal, healthy child who is the victim of being spoilt with no discipline. As you say yourself, not someone you or her friends enjoy spending time with. Clearly you love her, want the best for her and want her to be happy. So re-adjust what that is. I assume you'd like her to be kind, thoughtful, grateful and considerate. So teach her these things by being her parent. While she sounds awful, you can turn this around, you can help her be lovely.

Most of these lessons are learnt younger. She shouldn't need a 321 countdown, that's for toddlers. She should obey first time. I'm saying 'no' and dealing with my 2 year old tantrums, the 5 year old is pretty aware by now and my 7 year old (while has her moments) pleasant.

So introduce strict discipline and boundaries. Take the PS away except for an hour at weekends etc. It's not being cruel, it's sowing character. And when she has the PS for an hour at the weekend, play with her. Be kind with words and time, but firm with refusing stuff and treats.

This.

100% this.

This.
I have no idea why people are almost diagnosing her with Sen.
There's absolutely nothing OP has said that hints towards it.

An earlier poster commented about asking obscure questions and chatting endlessly... nearly all children do that!

I hope OP gets a good discipline routine in and stops buying everything under the moon... then maybe she will appreciate what she has instead of constantly looking towards the next thing.

If Charlie and the chocolate factory was written today....

Verecua salt isn't spoilt, she just has ADHD. Have 2 factories peeling nuts, she can't help it.
Augusta's Gloop probably is also autistic. TV is his 'special interest'. Same for violet.
Charlie Bucket isn't from a poor family doing their best. They're neglectful.

Not all bad behaviour can be blamed as SEN!

And therein lies your problem. Just look at the difference in your attitude towards her and her brother! And if you for a moment try to defend this by saying "But she's soooo difficult" - please, don't. This is on you, not her.

Stop thinking that "things" are a substitute for love. Give her boundaries. Follow through. Piss her off if need be, but for god's sake, stop comparing her to her brother. Shame on you.

She can pick up on that, and she almost certainly does.

When I was practising as a therapist, the single most influential factor on a child, and the adult they became, was their parents' behaviour towards them, and the feelings that the child knew the parent was feeling about them, but which the parents tried (unsuccessfully, always) to hide.

You've taught that your love and attention = getting things.

You have to break the cycle.

I've seen the exact same thing in kids I know. They definitely aren't sen. They have parents who don't want to say no, and it just ends up a mess.

Kid is never happy because they don't have boundaries to feel secure in. The feedback loop they get is one where they get a hit of pleasure from stuff but its short lived and doesn't satisfy.

What they want and seek is to appreciate stuff and understand its importance. They just don't realise it.

I genuinely don't think there is a single thing that says anything other than mum cant say no. This is what happens with spoilt kids.

The difference in your attitude to her brother is the clue. She's picking up on it.

She needs to understand that she will get benefits for good behaviour not because shes being difficult.

Then you take it off her again straight away. Honestly OP it seems that you have created a monster. Why must your ‘girls days’ out with her involve buying her clothes and lunch. Why can’t you do fun things with her? She’s not a mini adult. Take her to adventure playgrounds, farms, the zoo, for a bike ride with a picnic. Bake with her, play board games, make believe games, do talent shows, dance around the kitchen with her, camp out in the garden and tell each other stories or the front room and watch age appropriate films with her. Just make memories with her instead of throwing stuff at her.

Do you think she could possibly be autistic? My son is autistic and not much is ever good enough for him. He struggles with transitions, so coming off a game, or getting ready to leave the house is really difficult for him. Like your daughter he is usually fine when we get there.

This poster has got common sense. Why is it that every poorly behaved child needs a diagnosis?

Yes, some children are autistic or have ADHD. But some are quite simply spoilt and totally lacking in discipline.

I could have written this post about my eldest who is 7.
Pretty much to the letter, apart from the PlayStation bits because we don’t have any games consoles.
It’s come on in the past couple of months, she’s just become unbearable to be around. She’s vile to her brother (who’s 5), treats the baby (2) like a toy and gets frustrated when the baby won’t follow her exact rules of play. She’s so ungrateful for everything, it infuriates me.
A few weeks ago, me, DP, his DC, and my 3 DCs went for a day out. We went to quite an expensive attraction, went out for lunch, spent a fair bit of money in an arcade at the end of the day, and she complained about everything that could possibly be complained about. And that’s pretty much a constant thing - feels like nothing I do is ever good enough.
From what my exH (my DCs father) tells me, she’s very much the same when she’s with him.
I’m at a loss with it too OP. I feel like I’m trying everything, but she just has zero respect for anything or anyone, and doesn’t give a crap about any form of punishment ive tried for her hideous behaviour 🤯🤯🤦🏻‍♀️
Im the same as you - if it wasn’t for the other 2 (who are by no means angels!) I’d feel like I’d failed spectacuLrly as a parent 😔

OP - she might be adhd, she might be horridly spoilt. We don’t know.

I have a similar child and what has helped us is Dr Laura Markham’s parenting website and parenting course. AHA parenting. Takes a lot of work but we are in a much better place now.

also Bonnie Harris - when your kids push your buttons.

I’ve got similar issues with my 8yo DD - the complaining and whinging and shouting and screaming when she doesn’t get what she wants.

She’s definitely not spoilt, we rarely buy toys etc outside of birthdays/Christmas.

One thing mentioned to me to look at is “adrenarche” - it’s a stage of pre-puberty that commonly hits around the age of 8. The brain is flooded with hormones and as a result children struggle to manage their emotions: www.parents.com/kids/development/adrenarche-and-puberty-everything-you-need-to-know/

This might well be an unpopular opinion, but I don't think 8 year olds should be on a Playstation. Get rid of it. Read, draw, do crafts, go for walks and bike rides - all the stuff we did as kids. I genuinely think screens too young are ruining our kids.

Well today has been a better day. The big talk we had at bedtime obviously did something.
She knows that she won't be getting any treats/toys/clothes until her birthday.
There is nothing she needs.
She's not whinged once today, well she went to whinge once, but I gave her the look!
She's been nice to her brother, listened to instructions, and been kind and helpful.
There was a moment when she started talking to me like dirt when I was doing her hair before school, but I think she knew she over stepped the mark.
Do I think the good behaviour will continue long term? 100% not.
But hopefully the not being spoilt for the next 8 weeks will reset how she sees things.

I'm not pretending to know everything about parenting but I have a child who occasionally slips into this kind of behaviour and it's often if she has been spoilt recently or had a lot of screen time. The way I deal with it is to really go hard on the good behaviours, praising her on being kind or drawing something really lovely or helping us in some way. She usually responds well to this, I talk about how some children don't have any toys and how kind people don't speak to their mummy or daddy in that way etc and how proud I am that she hasnt asked for a toy or has said thank you and enjoyed her magazine or whatever and not asked for more. it really does work. Hopefully you'll be able to navigate a way round this but honestly I do just think it's conditioning in some cases and not SEN. Good luck OP.

“Why is it that every poorly behaved child needs a diagnosis?“
Because sometimes that’s the real issue. No one is saying the OP’s child has ADHD or autism, we’re saying that those traits she’s mentioned we have seen in our own children and they are or will be diagnosed. We’re making that suggestion as worth considering in the same way people are suggesting she be firmer with consequences. The OP can choose what to go with. But until you’ve experienced having a child with SEN you have no real idea what it’s like and how standard parenting doesn’t work.

My daughter sounds exactly like this, and I can categorically say that she is not spoilt, as we are dirt poor and I do not have the money to spoil her.

With my daughter a lot of it is sensory. Once I simplified our lives and put a very clear and defined routine in place, she improved a little.

I used to think she had Adhd/Add. I don't any more, at least she certainly wouldn't receive a diagnosis because she just doesn't struggle in school enough. But sensory needs often come out as whinging and complaining because they just don't feel right, especially in girls.

You may have spoiled your daughter in an attempt to make an unhappy child happy. Cut back on the material things and see if the complaints lessen.