Difficult relationship with 8 year old.

[avocadodi]

Please help me to feel not so alone.
I have an 8 year old daughter. I love her, obviously, but she's such hard work.
She whinges 24 hours a day, she's argumentative, rude, fussy, always feels hard done by. Nothing is ever good enough for her.
She's not very resilient, if something is difficult she'd rather quit.
At meal times she thinks everyone else has more than her, she thinks her little brother has more toys, better friends, nicer trainers etc etc.
She has absolutely everything in the world she could possibly want. Hundreds of pounds of extra curricular activities, nice clothes, a nice house, pets, a couple of friends, large extended family, lovely holidays.
I'm really trying hard not to show her that ultimately I'd rather not be around the whinging and moaning.
Honestly I'll take her out for a girls day and buy her clothes, and toys, and get her lunch.
Then she'll moan that I should have bought her more toys, or 2 pairs of trainers.
I am at a complete loss.
I know she's spoilt, but where do I go from here?

As per a PP I’m wondering if she has ADHD. Sounds like my daughter, we’ve been referred for diagnosis

@Bigunicornbag exactly the same.
Just a very negative energy. I worry about her constantly, as I can see her friends starting to pull away from her, simply because she's not enjoyable to be around.
She's a perfectionist too, and likes to do a lot of physical activities, but isn't amazing at any of them. I just want her to enjoy herself and be happy, but she's constantly comparing herself to her friends, and she sulks if they achieve something that she can't do (eg a jump at horse riding), but she doesn't have any resilience to keep trying, she'd rather sulk and blame other people for her not being able to do something.
She wants all the rewards with none of the work.
I will try and spend more time with her, maybe when her brother is in bed.
But todays whinging has just about finished me off!

Just looked at ADHD. I guess some of the traits are similar, but she's very shy and quiet.
She's high flying academically and obsessive about doing homework or school work as she hates breaking rules so would never not hand it in.
Her concentration at school is also fine.

Maybe focus less on buying stuff and more on simply spending time with her.

She’s clearly unhappy for some reason. Can you figure out why and try to sort it out? Maybe she feels you love her less than her brother?

I love them both the same.
I'll admit that it's easier to be round her brother.
I hope she can't pick up on that. Although I'm sure she probably does, as I'm forever telling her off because of her awful behaviour, but rarely tell her brother off.
But I can't discipline her brother when he's doing nothing wrong.
She does say that I never tell her brother off, but genuinely 95% of the time he's not doing anything I need to tell him off for.

Sounds exactly like my 9yo daughter, she was diagnosed Autistic last year, it's very draining parenting a child like this. Definitely set boundaries and stick to them, I know it is so very hard though.

I have a younger child who is so much easier to parent and be with.

I recognised a lot of my childhood self in your descriptions of your DD.

I was a very anxious, sensitive child and craved attention and reassurance from my parents. They gave me lessons too and lots of physical treats but after a lot of therapy and soul-searching I realise now that I would have rather had emotional security from them and built up some self esteem, not to be told I was hard work for sulking all the time (repressing my emotions). OP, if you can spend time with your daughter as PPs have suggested, creating something together, and tell her it's OK to be sad/angry/frustrated but teach her healthy ways to express it rather than try and fix it througj demanding toys all the time, then this will hopefully help.

Yes mine is a perfectionist and very dedicated to school work. She really struggles without constant praise from the teachers and is jealous when friends do well. I talk to her about this and say it’s important to be happy for other people.

I have had to challenge myself because she is so different to the rest of the family. Her dad , me and siblings are all very laid back. We are introverted and don’t require a lot of interaction with others. However DD needs a lot of attention and interaction with me. It’s tough because she is a full on personality but I do it because I think that’s how she knows she’s loved. She loves a busy day helping me with tasks. Honestly I just want to listen to podcasts and get on with things but the interaction is essential for her.

She is like my mum, want to tell me every little detail of her day and moans constantly!

The more you have said the more it's Classic Adhd in girls. I was also academically good and had concentration

My issues were behavioural, never feeling happy and always hard done by and very difficult to handle

And telling her off is making it worse , if you don't want to get a adhd assessment then ok but personally I would

Honestly I would consider it but if not Google this book and buy it ... 10 days to a less defiant child

It's excellent and the strategies work well. With adhd and without.

OP has she been assessed for autism.? Sounds like a lot of the traits fit. High flyer, perfectionist, struggles to self regulate and self centered. This is the age a lot of girls are diagnosed as they mask well until around 8-10 . A lot of parents first trigger is that friends pull away as this is when asd girls start seeming different. Worth looking at if you havent already.

Agree you have literally spoilt her rotten. She knows if she whinges enough you'll just give in. Why would she change behaviour that works for her? Stop making it work.

Hi OP. The first thing I would say is that you should work really hard to repair your relationship now as it will only worsen as your daughter gets older. Be sure she has absolutely no doubt that you love her.

Also, lead by example and make sure she knows what that example is. eg : "Do you ever hear me or your father speak to our parents that way, even though we are not even children anymore? I expect you to treat me in the way you see me treat my own parents."

Pick your battles: If you feel that extended whinging/ tantrums will result in you relenting, then just say Yes at the outset. If you say No, make sure you have the strength to stick to it.

Hammer home the golden rule: "Treat others in the way you would wish to be treated yourself."

It sounds like she is focusing on material posessions as a demonstration of care because that's what you're giving her (shopping and toys as a treat). So unsurprisingly she wants more, especially as those things are not going to give lasting happiness anyway.

Agree with pp she might need help identifying her feelings and working out healthy ways to express her feelings.

In terms of discipline, my advice would be to make consequences inconvenient or boring.

I do think there's also no harm telling her that comparison is the thief of joy!

I'd personally lose some extra curricular and focus on improving her self esteem by encouraging some of her positive qualities, as well as your relationship. Is she organised? You could actually have a lot of fun pairing socks together. Anything that makes her feel confident, but is free.

I do think getting her to help with stuff which she is good at, but is also useful to others, might be a good thing.

Children pick up on our negative feelings towards them. If you're giving off vibes that your daughter is hard work, it's going to affect her. I know that the more irritated I feel with my son, the more difficult his behaviour gets, even if I think I'm hiding my feelings!

I would wager that the constant craving of material things is her way of trying to fill a void. She needs some real human connection instead.

I read some really excellent advice on here a while ago - whenever your child is begging for things, saying they're bored, etc show them some affection or invite them to do something with you.

Banning rude behaviour and such is not really addressing the problem, unfortunately.

I suspect she knows that the way she is behaving is not 'acceptable'. But she is a child and is obviously hurting inside. Maybe someone can help her express what she's feeling rather than try to ban her from showing emotions in the only way she knows how.

I’ve had similar problems! Google how to unspoil a child, there are some interesting ideas.

Interesting thread.

My DD is similar but I can categorically say she is not spoiled - no means no no matter how much shouting and whinging, we buy very little other than birthdays/christmas, firm boundaries around screen time, no console, activities are a firm commitment…

…and yet we still have many of the same battles you describe.

DD has a diagnosis, not adhd or autism but I increasingly wonder if she has one of those too.

OP what is certain is that being consistent will help a lot. If you say no, stick to it. Have a daily screen time limit and stick to it. If she is spoiled, this will help, if she has adhd or autism this will help for other reasons. And so will being very loving and trying as much as you can to see the positive and have positive conversations. I am guilty of talking with DD too much about behaviour and too little about other stuff, I’m sure it doesn’t help.

Try narrating the positive things you see - no matter how small. Link this to a positive behaviour trait. Let her overhear you saying nice things about her - no matter how tiny.
“I like the way you remembered to put your clothes away - that shows great organisation….
i noticed you ran the bath without me reminding you - that was very grown up of you.

Your homework looks fantastic- you’re showing real maturity by doing it so well. You should feel really proud of that.”

It feels odd to start with but you will soon see her gaining self belief and loving hearing her mum say nice things like that.

Gosh, absolutely BUCKETS of markers for neurodivergence there. That said, kids with ASD/ADHD need boundaries and rules and expectations to be clear, just as much of not more than neurotypical kids. There’s often an associated anxiety with it, and with that comes testing care givers over and over, to see if you really are going to stand firm. And yet it’s the standing firm that gives the reassurance.

Agree with @Attwoodsladyfriend
Also this
“The more you have said the more it's Classic Adhd in girls. I was also academically good and had concentration”
Obviously give her boundaries but look into ADHD and autism, she’ll need extra support and so will you if she has either or both

It sounds like life is a bit too much for her at the moment. Too much stuff, too many commitments, too much screen-time, too much focus on acquisition. I'd try to dial everything right back and have some quieter days doing simpler activities with a more sensory aspect like cooking or painting together, splashing in the paddling-pool if you have one, getting out for a long walk (and maybe a promise of cake at the end) and encouraging her to have some long, warm baths. That's my go-to with my DC if they're moaning and overwhelmed. Just generally encouraging her to slow down and take some time to 'be'.

And of course, I don't hear whining and moaning 😁. Just goes right over my head and I don't bother replying.

Totally agree with this.

If I ask DD what she would like to do, she says 'colouring/drawing with mummy'. So, we do.

Sometimes my head is elsewhere thinking about work or how much washing there is, after a few minutes (and giving my head a wobble) I feel really pleased that DD has got this time to be quiet with me.

They don't need stuff (although they will ask for everything!!), mine just wants time with me.

@mellongoose thats nice if you can pull it off. Two of mine have ADD (inattentive) and they literally don’t stop talking at all. Mostly questions. Over and over. Mind bending ones. What shape would chairs be if your knees were on the back? Do hedgehogs have birthdays? You get the idea. It doesn’t leave any space to sort of zone out. There have been days when I think my brain will just liquify and then run out down my nose.