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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I’m a nasty bitch and always have been

134 replies

Wanderislu · 09/05/2022 07:36

The hatred I have for myself began to tip over into other people in my twenties.

Objectively, I’m successful, financially pretty ok with wealthy ish background, lots of friends, slim, reasonably attractive and when ‘on form’ and feeling ok can be a great friend; patient, kind, extremely understanding. I can be good fun and lightheaded and people seem to like me. But probably wouldn’t if they knew the truth.

fundamentally, and pretty much all the time I hate myself. I have snippets of seeing myself in the ways I describe above but it’s not consistent behaviour. I have crumbled further in recent years, made more mistakes.

I text a best friend’s boyfriend when I was 17. I knew fully what I was doing and knew it was wrong at the time.

in my early twenties I had a bit of a social crisis. Friends from school getting married etc and I just shrunk away. I didn’t got to one of the girls hen dos and I lost my circle of friends from school. It still makes me sad now. I did reach out but they were quite cruel so I didn’t try again afterwards.

at uni I used to see a guy in our friendship group in secret and then one of the girls started to like him. We carried on in secret even though she would talk about how much she liked him. When they found out they did forgive me but it was never the same again.

in my twenties I had a lovely relationship but couldn’t cope when it became more intense. I remember once I actually ran off down a canal and he had to chase me. I shouted that I didn’t love him.

I had an affair in my late twenties with a married man. He claimed to be separated and at first I believed that but a few months in I found evidence that he was definitely still very much married. I carried on.

I can be lazy at work. I’m paid a decent amount of money and some days I do the absolute bare minimum. Probably 10% of someone in nursing or another job that SHOULD be paid well. I’m awful.

i don’t get on massively well with my family. There were problems growing up in that my sister was seen as the one who could do no wrong and I was the tear away. That narrative has continued and I am not really part of the family unit in any real or genuine way. That makes me sad as my family are actually good people really, even if they made mistakes bringing us up.

I lie easily and naturally. There are lines that I draw where i wouldn’t lie and for example I would never lie to the police or about something serious. But still, I can lie and I do it well. I do it often if it benefits me. I hate myself for this.

I am intelligent and I know it and can often outwit other people in stressful situations. I had a partner who was in a very high up job, well educated and switched on. if we had an argument I would absolutely wipe the floor with him. I cannot stand myself for having this quality, my mind is always in overdrive and I am, most of the time, one step ahead without realising. I can never relax and be genuinely happy.

I confided all this in a therapist before and she said because I had self awareness this was a huge plus point and that someone who was genuinely unkind and evil wouldn’t even question themselves. How can that even be true?! I probably KNOW on some level that by analysing myself it can lessen the blow of what I do and how I behave in terms of others’ perceptions…which just makes me even more of a nasty and manipulative bitch, not less. Im still behaving the same way even though I recognise it’s not right. I am even worse than someone who doesn’t recognise it!!

When I feel alone or stressed I can be absolutely awful to my family and partner. It’s like I hate myself so much that I want to be hated by everyone else. I can’t really control the words that come out of my mouth and it is like an out of body experience. I’ve explained this to them in calmer moments but of course there’s little sympathy because a) it sounds like a feeble excuse and b) I’m still being an utter cunt and why should they care the reasons behind it.

I hate myself when I am ‘on good form’ these days because it almost scares me that I am capable of such varying degrees of behaviour. I no longer really can tell if the nice me is the real me. How can I know.

Ive made so many mistakes and lost so many people and because I can chat and engage and be a good friend when I am feeling ok, I manage to recruit more people in my life which I tend to later fuck up. I do have a few long term friends of ten years or so but we are very close and I guess it’s just that we get on so well that it’s been fine.

I am now mid thirties. I have some very good friends but my relationship with my family is very fractured and I often reflect on all the awful, manipulative, selfish things I have done. I do not cope well and I will either have days where I am absolutely brilliant and could be the most in control, sunny, kind woman and days where I don’t wash, can’t hold a conversation without getting angry and then spend significant time in tears. There is no middle ground.

I am so worried I will end up in a very awful state and unable to function at all.

OP posts:
Swayingpalmtrees · 10/05/2022 08:33

Totally agreed watch The thread has been hijacked and turned into something entirely different by a bunch of people wildly speculating.

Op has had an abusive childhood whether she is ready to see that or not, she has been told all of her life that she is the 'problem' despite the fact her parents have clearly been systemically damaging her and labelling her for years, and yet some pp think nothing about reinforcing the parents' message by trying again to label her!

No one here should be second guessing serious psychological disorders from their sofas! Nothing op has said has indicated to a large majority of us that there is even a problem beyond normal feelings of anger and frustration.

I hope op will come back and hope she is okay Flowers

Watchkeys · 10/05/2022 08:36

@Fireflygal

People are allowed to disagree with those opinions too. That's what MN is all about.

Especially when someone who is very clearly suffering from lifelong abuse is being repeatedly told that they need to get diagnosed for something, when the first port of call, which is somewhat urgent, is to deal with denial of abuse and self-blame. Regardless of any diagnosis (any of which may take several years), OP can start to deal with those things today, and start to feel better almost immediately, albeit in a small way. Focussing on 'what's wrong with her' isn't going to help, even if it might be helpful to get a diagnosis down the line.

LaingsAcidTab · 10/05/2022 08:39

Wanderislu · 09/05/2022 09:49

thanks for all the messages, really has given me things to think about.

a lot of people have mentioned childhood… I don’t think I really had a traumatic childhood. I had everything I needed. I was a bit of a brat I think. I remember once I was crying about going to bed/not wanting to, which was a regular occurrence and I would shout and throw things, maybe age 8 and my dad dragged me downstairs and grabbed my head and positioned it towards the tv and said look at people with real problems (the news was on).

my parents often talked about me behind my back and I would get wind of this when they were relaying to another family member - grandparent or distant aunt etc - how much trouble I was. This led me to listen in to their conversations a lot and they’d be comparing me with my sister. I found that hard as a child but can see why they were doing it now, they obviously felt they wanted help.

My mum would often say if something happened to her and my dad that she’d know I was ok because I had my sister but she’d worry for my sister because my sister would only have me. I never really understood that comment because I am quite a kind person even when I’m having an outburst or lashing out, there is kindness in me and I would always support someone who needed me, especially my sister.

I think my whole life I have felt misunderstood by them and the odd one out. The thing is recently I have began to try and do things to impress them, I think maybe I always did but now I am conscious of it for the first time. I desperately want their approval about my relationships, a car I drive or decide I won’t drive (to show I’m not ‘flashy’ or ‘being spoiled’). I am anxious around them to the extent that a cloud descends when I meet them even though I enjoy it when I’m with them. I can’t know for sure what they say about me these days but if I was going to bet, I would probably say they still despair of me and whilst they love me they will always have me down as the difficult child and the nightmare child - words they used often.

It does make me sad as I cannot be myself round them. How I am with my partner and my best friends is completely different. I am almost literally like a different person. It is very hard to explain. I remember once when I was 23 and had finished two years of law school where I had basically not seen a soul or done anything, my boyfriend at the time took me away for the night to a spa. My parents were really strange about it and said I didn’t deserve that after how awful I had been when revising - I would lock myself away and not speak and gone stressed etc. I ended up hiding photos on social media as I felt huge guilt about doing anything nice.

these things are a few that went on but really nothing is justifiable to call my parents cunts in anger or to be too sensitive and read into things to such an extent that I struggle to be calm and happy around them. That is on me as an adult and I carry it over into relationships with other people like partners. I am such a mess.

Your childhood was not good. If you're comparing it with other childhoods that seem worse, don't. Your parents' behaviour will have shaped you.

Please investigate psychodynamic psychotherapy or something of its ilk. You are an ideal candidate for this.

I was a practising psychotherapist, fwiw.

LaingsAcidTab · 10/05/2022 08:42

Innocenta · 09/05/2022 10:41

There's nothing suggesting you have BPD. I'm sorry so many people are trying to push you towards a personality disorder diagnosis. This is sadly an extremely common thing for women who have been through trauma.

Trauma doesn't have to be one huge, headline grabbing thing of the sort that everyone would instantly recognise like being in a bombing. Bullying can cause clinically recognisable trauma. An invalidating and persistently hurtful family environment can cause trauma. There are a wide range of ways in which trauma can develop and affect people; it's very complicated.

It really isn't necessary for people to try and label you with a diagnosis, because just in doing so they show they aren't professionals. No one who actually diagnoses things like PDs would ever do so in a discussion forum like MN. These are people casually suggesting it, or projecting their own issues, and it's likely to be unhelpful if you think of all this in terms of your personality (a core part of you) being 'disordered' (wrong, flawed, dysfunctional). You are already very harsh on yourself. This is why I'd recommend seeking a therapy modality that can help you with looking a bit more deeply and particularly trying to find some compassion for yourself (and for your child self).

A voice of reason among the armchair experts.

Innocenta · 10/05/2022 08:47

Fireflygal · 10/05/2022 08:31

@Innocenta, Many people have offered advice to the op, using their experience. That's what MN is all about. It's perfectly valid for others to offer opinions. The op has been supported but also sign posted to various possibilities- all of which would need to be diagnosed formally. No one disputes that.

Greater awareness of the variety of conditions that impact people is really helpful. The op can then do her own further research based on the information given here and find the right specialist.

@Fireflygal Strongly pushing OP towards 'a diagnosis' isn't necessarily helpful at all, as others have adeptly explained. I don't agree that 'awareness' is necessarily helpful in blanket terms, but that's getting a bit off topic for OP.

Otherwise, I'm not sure why you replied to me with this. Better to stay focused on OP's needs x

Innocenta · 10/05/2022 08:49

Swayingpalmtrees · 10/05/2022 08:33

Totally agreed watch The thread has been hijacked and turned into something entirely different by a bunch of people wildly speculating.

Op has had an abusive childhood whether she is ready to see that or not, she has been told all of her life that she is the 'problem' despite the fact her parents have clearly been systemically damaging her and labelling her for years, and yet some pp think nothing about reinforcing the parents' message by trying again to label her!

No one here should be second guessing serious psychological disorders from their sofas! Nothing op has said has indicated to a large majority of us that there is even a problem beyond normal feelings of anger and frustration.

I hope op will come back and hope she is okay Flowers

I agree. OP, even if you don't feel up to posting again (and I know there's been a big response, might feel a bit overwhelming), please know we are thinking of you with warmth, not judgment. We are here if you do need or want to post again.

Snog · 10/05/2022 09:32

Look into emotional neglect OP.
It's possible to have a childhood in which your parents did lots of the stuff seen from the outside as good parenting yet not to meet the emotional needs of the child. It can be a reason why children struggle as adults. You probably also felt you were struggling as a child but didn't really know why.

HMSSophia · 10/05/2022 09:43

I had a "bit shit" childhood and spent 30 years in therapy and on ante depressants, trying to work out why I felt how I do. I'm clever, insightful, honest. I "did the work". But other than a far better intellectual understanding of my childhood and a few new strategies for living, fundamentally I remained chaotic, (unwanted pregnancies included), emotional (unable to control my emotions) and lost in the world. Finally realising that even with the best therapist in the world (who I have) I was still unable to "adult", I sought a psychiatrist who diagnosed ADHD.

Just sharing this to show it is perfectly possible to have childhood trauma AND be ND. The relief I feel at my diagnosis is simply incredible. And has enabled me and my therapist to do new and useful work together.

Sunnygirl1 · 10/05/2022 09:44

Swayingpalmtrees · 10/05/2022 07:51

paris You are saying the sooner she gets a 'diagnosis' the better, as if it is a done deal that she has 'something' wrong with her. Given your line of work, can you not at least try to understand the damage you are doing by putting the blame back on op? This is again her parents saying she is 'trouble' in some way, the 'problem' lies with her, therefore reinforcing everything she has been hearing for years and years.

Armchair specialist second guessing what could be wrong with op is really unhelpful and morally wrong, and they are doing far more harm than good.

We should be focusing on supporting her, talking about her pregnancy if there is one, and helping her to access proper help so she can talk it through.

Op, please ignore the transference and second guessing on here. I hope you are finding the more supportive messages helpful.

I agree.

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