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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I’m a nasty bitch and always have been

134 replies

Wanderislu · 09/05/2022 07:36

The hatred I have for myself began to tip over into other people in my twenties.

Objectively, I’m successful, financially pretty ok with wealthy ish background, lots of friends, slim, reasonably attractive and when ‘on form’ and feeling ok can be a great friend; patient, kind, extremely understanding. I can be good fun and lightheaded and people seem to like me. But probably wouldn’t if they knew the truth.

fundamentally, and pretty much all the time I hate myself. I have snippets of seeing myself in the ways I describe above but it’s not consistent behaviour. I have crumbled further in recent years, made more mistakes.

I text a best friend’s boyfriend when I was 17. I knew fully what I was doing and knew it was wrong at the time.

in my early twenties I had a bit of a social crisis. Friends from school getting married etc and I just shrunk away. I didn’t got to one of the girls hen dos and I lost my circle of friends from school. It still makes me sad now. I did reach out but they were quite cruel so I didn’t try again afterwards.

at uni I used to see a guy in our friendship group in secret and then one of the girls started to like him. We carried on in secret even though she would talk about how much she liked him. When they found out they did forgive me but it was never the same again.

in my twenties I had a lovely relationship but couldn’t cope when it became more intense. I remember once I actually ran off down a canal and he had to chase me. I shouted that I didn’t love him.

I had an affair in my late twenties with a married man. He claimed to be separated and at first I believed that but a few months in I found evidence that he was definitely still very much married. I carried on.

I can be lazy at work. I’m paid a decent amount of money and some days I do the absolute bare minimum. Probably 10% of someone in nursing or another job that SHOULD be paid well. I’m awful.

i don’t get on massively well with my family. There were problems growing up in that my sister was seen as the one who could do no wrong and I was the tear away. That narrative has continued and I am not really part of the family unit in any real or genuine way. That makes me sad as my family are actually good people really, even if they made mistakes bringing us up.

I lie easily and naturally. There are lines that I draw where i wouldn’t lie and for example I would never lie to the police or about something serious. But still, I can lie and I do it well. I do it often if it benefits me. I hate myself for this.

I am intelligent and I know it and can often outwit other people in stressful situations. I had a partner who was in a very high up job, well educated and switched on. if we had an argument I would absolutely wipe the floor with him. I cannot stand myself for having this quality, my mind is always in overdrive and I am, most of the time, one step ahead without realising. I can never relax and be genuinely happy.

I confided all this in a therapist before and she said because I had self awareness this was a huge plus point and that someone who was genuinely unkind and evil wouldn’t even question themselves. How can that even be true?! I probably KNOW on some level that by analysing myself it can lessen the blow of what I do and how I behave in terms of others’ perceptions…which just makes me even more of a nasty and manipulative bitch, not less. Im still behaving the same way even though I recognise it’s not right. I am even worse than someone who doesn’t recognise it!!

When I feel alone or stressed I can be absolutely awful to my family and partner. It’s like I hate myself so much that I want to be hated by everyone else. I can’t really control the words that come out of my mouth and it is like an out of body experience. I’ve explained this to them in calmer moments but of course there’s little sympathy because a) it sounds like a feeble excuse and b) I’m still being an utter cunt and why should they care the reasons behind it.

I hate myself when I am ‘on good form’ these days because it almost scares me that I am capable of such varying degrees of behaviour. I no longer really can tell if the nice me is the real me. How can I know.

Ive made so many mistakes and lost so many people and because I can chat and engage and be a good friend when I am feeling ok, I manage to recruit more people in my life which I tend to later fuck up. I do have a few long term friends of ten years or so but we are very close and I guess it’s just that we get on so well that it’s been fine.

I am now mid thirties. I have some very good friends but my relationship with my family is very fractured and I often reflect on all the awful, manipulative, selfish things I have done. I do not cope well and I will either have days where I am absolutely brilliant and could be the most in control, sunny, kind woman and days where I don’t wash, can’t hold a conversation without getting angry and then spend significant time in tears. There is no middle ground.

I am so worried I will end up in a very awful state and unable to function at all.

OP posts:
miltonj · 09/05/2022 18:40

I'd not rush to be trying to get a diagnosis for anything.

Non of what you describe sounds particularly bad. Definitely not out of the ordinary. Especially the stuff in your teens and twenties.... so normal, that it's textbook!

We are all capable of being nasty and a bit manipulative, it's just some people are acutely aware of it. Some people can't see their own flaws at all. So you're actually a step ahead of a lot of people!

You do sound like you could use a bit of therapy though, to learn to let go of stuff from the past, to not catastrophise and to help you work through your relationships. But other than that I think you just need to relax! Grin

pixie5121 · 09/05/2022 19:48

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SillyFish · 09/05/2022 20:42

You can turn this around @Wanderislu

It's been mentioned upthread I also think it sounds like this could be due to ASD and your parents not supporting you in the way you needed. You actually sound lovely, and I really hope you can get the support you need. 💟

ParisNoir · 09/05/2022 20:48

Sounds very much like a personality disorder’ is pretty strong

No, it doesnt. I worked on a psych ward for over a decade and these traits are pretty common, depending on the PD cluster type:

  1. emotional instability/dysregulation
  2. Ability to manipulate others but also to be superficially charming when needed
  3. Lying so much it becomes the default, almost to the point of disassociating from yourself/no self identity
  4. Feelings self hatred and fear of being alone (over-sensitivity and overreaction to any perceived rejection/abandonment/slight)
  5. Self destructive tendencies (self harm/substance abuse is often found here too, but OP doesnt specify if this is also the case)
Obviously, noone online can diagnose you, OP, but I do think you should go and get a proper diagnosis because the sooner you do, the sooner you'll come to understand why you behave the way you do and can seek the right treatment. It does not mean there is anything "wrong" with you, there is no such thing as "normal" anyway, but gaining insight into why we behave the way we do is often the first step to managing the parts of ourselves that feel uncomfortable and painful and to finding a peace and acceptance of ourselves.

I wish you the very best of luck OP and would also urge you not to be so hard on yourself and to be kind with the words you use to define yourself. You can be self aware and honest without describing yourself as "nasty" etc.

pixie5121 · 09/05/2022 20:53

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Innocenta · 09/05/2022 20:54

@ParisNoir No. You cannot with any reliability tell if someone has a PD from a handful of posts on a discussion forum.

It's also really irresponsible of you to make an 'argument from authority' to try to push your (unsupported) opinion and make yourself sound more convincing. You're not a psychiatrist, and even if you were, wouldn't be diagnosing anyone like this.

ParisNoir · 09/05/2022 20:55

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Withdrawn at poster's request.

Which is why I said noone can diagnose anyone online- these are all just possibilities and the sooner the OP gets an actual diagnosis, the better. I'm referring to the poster who said they couldnt possibly be PD as its "too strong". They could. they could also be something else like autism but none of us here can really say for sure.

ParisNoir · 09/05/2022 20:56

Innocenta · 09/05/2022 20:54

@ParisNoir No. You cannot with any reliability tell if someone has a PD from a handful of posts on a discussion forum.

It's also really irresponsible of you to make an 'argument from authority' to try to push your (unsupported) opinion and make yourself sound more convincing. You're not a psychiatrist, and even if you were, wouldn't be diagnosing anyone like this.

Did you even read what I wrote? I said NOONE CAN DIAGNOSE ONLINE. Which is why the OP needs to seek a professional diagnosis

Watchkeys · 09/05/2022 20:57

OP's behaviour is fairly standard for that of someone who is being, and has, throughout their childhood, been emotionally abused.

Given that her descriptions of family life when she was younger, and now, clearly detail abuse, that's most likely the cause of her issues now, and it would be wisest to look into this first, rather than leaping to a 'Maybe you have x/y/z and need to get it diagnosed.'

pixie5121 · 09/05/2022 21:01

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Watchkeys · 09/05/2022 21:12

@pixie5121

So you think that everybody who is abused and has typical responses to abuse should be checked out for autism?

I'd suggest that the vast majority of abuse victims are not autistic, so being tested for that, rather than dealing with this very typical response to abuse would be something of a distraction, which is probably the last thing OP would need. Perhaps you think she should also be making sure she's not perimenopausal, and getting checked out by the doctors for signs of brain abnormalities or imbalances in the endocrine system..?

Does it not make sense to actually deal with the matter at hand: abuse victim suffers symptoms of being an abuse victim?

Innocenta · 09/05/2022 21:12

@ParisNoir Of course I read it. You're still implying OP has a personality disorder.

KILM · 09/05/2022 21:13

OP your post and responses (especially the one about how you feel you can easily manipulate mental health help) have made me emotional as i could have written them. I have had anxiety and OCD suggested to me by mental health professionals in the past, and had my self awareness commented on by medical professionaks, work colleagues, friends, strangers etc. With the increased awareness of autism in women & girls and on how girls mask, it has been dawning on me that the feeling of 'otherness' i have experienced my whole life may have an explanation. I have just finished reading Drama Queen by Sara Gibbs and a lot of it resonated with me and it may with you too. I have no practical advice to offer other than i hear you, i see you, i know you.

Innocenta · 09/05/2022 21:13

@pixie5121 A lot of people are bullied, both neurodiverse and neurotypical. Being abused or bullied isn't a diagnostic criterion for any particular condition.

SillyFish · 09/05/2022 21:20

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I very much agree with you.

whumpthereitis · 09/05/2022 21:43

The problem with personality disorders is that we can all exhibit traits of them at different times. They’re not behaviours that are otherwise absent in ‘normal’ people. What makes them personality disorders is that such traits are exhibited to such an extent that it makes it difficult for the sufferer to function in day to day life and society.

It takes time and investigation to diagnose a personality disorder.

pixie5121 · 09/05/2022 22:03

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pixie5121 · 09/05/2022 22:04

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RockLampSalt · 09/05/2022 22:18

@Watchkeys - There is a lot in the initial post that flags up the possibility that OP might be neurodivergent.

I am, and that was what jumped out to me as soon as I read it. Not possible to diagnose unless qualified to do so - however, I definitely recognise ADHD and autistic women in real life, sometimes before they know it themselves, I think it is something we recognise in each other and that is why so many posters who are neurodivergent themselves have raised it.

If there were lots of peri-menopausal women saying OPs experience mirrored there on and maybe she could look into that, then it might be a distinct possibility. But there aren’t.

Watchkeys · 09/05/2022 22:23

@RockLampSalt

There is a lot in the initial post that flags up the possibility that OP might be neurodivergent

Yes, and all of them are typical symptoms of suffering abuse. I think perhaps you know a lot about your own autism but don't know much about abuse. And if all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

whumpthereitis · 09/05/2022 22:53

PTSD can look like autism. It can also appear to be a personality disorder. No one on here can diagnose OP though, if indeed there is anything to diagnose.

Innocenta · 10/05/2022 00:22

@pixie5121 There's no need to be so nasty. This is a sensitive subject for lots of us and we are all trying to navigate around it as best we can.

Swayingpalmtrees · 10/05/2022 07:51

paris You are saying the sooner she gets a 'diagnosis' the better, as if it is a done deal that she has 'something' wrong with her. Given your line of work, can you not at least try to understand the damage you are doing by putting the blame back on op? This is again her parents saying she is 'trouble' in some way, the 'problem' lies with her, therefore reinforcing everything she has been hearing for years and years.

Armchair specialist second guessing what could be wrong with op is really unhelpful and morally wrong, and they are doing far more harm than good.

We should be focusing on supporting her, talking about her pregnancy if there is one, and helping her to access proper help so she can talk it through.

Op, please ignore the transference and second guessing on here. I hope you are finding the more supportive messages helpful.

Watchkeys · 10/05/2022 08:08

@Swayingpalmtrees

You are saying the sooner she gets a 'diagnosis' the better, as if it is a done deal that she has 'something' wrong with her. Given your line of work, can you not at least try to understand the damage you are doing by putting the blame back on op

Exactly. OP, we all have personality traits that might be transferrable to a ADHD/autism diagnosis, and we could all write stories from our live that would display these potentials. But given that your family are abusive to you, and that you're having trouble accepting that just now, everything you've said you do and feel fits neatly into being symptomatic of that, without needing a diagnosis for yourself on the side.

It feels like the thread has turned into a discussion of what diagnosis you need, rather than helping you to understand what's happened to you and why you have the feelings you do.

How are you today @Wanderislu ?

Fireflygal · 10/05/2022 08:31

@Innocenta, Many people have offered advice to the op, using their experience. That's what MN is all about. It's perfectly valid for others to offer opinions. The op has been supported but also sign posted to various possibilities- all of which would need to be diagnosed formally. No one disputes that.

Greater awareness of the variety of conditions that impact people is really helpful. The op can then do her own further research based on the information given here and find the right specialist.

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