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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I’m a nasty bitch and always have been

134 replies

Wanderislu · 09/05/2022 07:36

The hatred I have for myself began to tip over into other people in my twenties.

Objectively, I’m successful, financially pretty ok with wealthy ish background, lots of friends, slim, reasonably attractive and when ‘on form’ and feeling ok can be a great friend; patient, kind, extremely understanding. I can be good fun and lightheaded and people seem to like me. But probably wouldn’t if they knew the truth.

fundamentally, and pretty much all the time I hate myself. I have snippets of seeing myself in the ways I describe above but it’s not consistent behaviour. I have crumbled further in recent years, made more mistakes.

I text a best friend’s boyfriend when I was 17. I knew fully what I was doing and knew it was wrong at the time.

in my early twenties I had a bit of a social crisis. Friends from school getting married etc and I just shrunk away. I didn’t got to one of the girls hen dos and I lost my circle of friends from school. It still makes me sad now. I did reach out but they were quite cruel so I didn’t try again afterwards.

at uni I used to see a guy in our friendship group in secret and then one of the girls started to like him. We carried on in secret even though she would talk about how much she liked him. When they found out they did forgive me but it was never the same again.

in my twenties I had a lovely relationship but couldn’t cope when it became more intense. I remember once I actually ran off down a canal and he had to chase me. I shouted that I didn’t love him.

I had an affair in my late twenties with a married man. He claimed to be separated and at first I believed that but a few months in I found evidence that he was definitely still very much married. I carried on.

I can be lazy at work. I’m paid a decent amount of money and some days I do the absolute bare minimum. Probably 10% of someone in nursing or another job that SHOULD be paid well. I’m awful.

i don’t get on massively well with my family. There were problems growing up in that my sister was seen as the one who could do no wrong and I was the tear away. That narrative has continued and I am not really part of the family unit in any real or genuine way. That makes me sad as my family are actually good people really, even if they made mistakes bringing us up.

I lie easily and naturally. There are lines that I draw where i wouldn’t lie and for example I would never lie to the police or about something serious. But still, I can lie and I do it well. I do it often if it benefits me. I hate myself for this.

I am intelligent and I know it and can often outwit other people in stressful situations. I had a partner who was in a very high up job, well educated and switched on. if we had an argument I would absolutely wipe the floor with him. I cannot stand myself for having this quality, my mind is always in overdrive and I am, most of the time, one step ahead without realising. I can never relax and be genuinely happy.

I confided all this in a therapist before and she said because I had self awareness this was a huge plus point and that someone who was genuinely unkind and evil wouldn’t even question themselves. How can that even be true?! I probably KNOW on some level that by analysing myself it can lessen the blow of what I do and how I behave in terms of others’ perceptions…which just makes me even more of a nasty and manipulative bitch, not less. Im still behaving the same way even though I recognise it’s not right. I am even worse than someone who doesn’t recognise it!!

When I feel alone or stressed I can be absolutely awful to my family and partner. It’s like I hate myself so much that I want to be hated by everyone else. I can’t really control the words that come out of my mouth and it is like an out of body experience. I’ve explained this to them in calmer moments but of course there’s little sympathy because a) it sounds like a feeble excuse and b) I’m still being an utter cunt and why should they care the reasons behind it.

I hate myself when I am ‘on good form’ these days because it almost scares me that I am capable of such varying degrees of behaviour. I no longer really can tell if the nice me is the real me. How can I know.

Ive made so many mistakes and lost so many people and because I can chat and engage and be a good friend when I am feeling ok, I manage to recruit more people in my life which I tend to later fuck up. I do have a few long term friends of ten years or so but we are very close and I guess it’s just that we get on so well that it’s been fine.

I am now mid thirties. I have some very good friends but my relationship with my family is very fractured and I often reflect on all the awful, manipulative, selfish things I have done. I do not cope well and I will either have days where I am absolutely brilliant and could be the most in control, sunny, kind woman and days where I don’t wash, can’t hold a conversation without getting angry and then spend significant time in tears. There is no middle ground.

I am so worried I will end up in a very awful state and unable to function at all.

OP posts:
Gagaandgag · 09/05/2022 08:35

And yes…I also regularly feel that I hate myself!

I did read the self loathing part can be quite common with people on the spectrum.

Also the gaining new friends but not being able to keep hold of them/maintain Friendships.

I can also be rude to my family and DH - I hate myself for it so much.

Did anything significant happen to make you begin therapy or reach out to write this message. For me the turning point was having children. My son who is now 6 is diagnosed as ASD. He is very challenging and can’t cope with school- so he is with me all the time. It’s just all been too much for me. Having children seemed to be a pivotal moment for me - I now have high anxiety and OCD too. A lot of what you described is very ‘me’

Im sorry you feel so fractured from your family.

Good luck 💐

windthatbobbin · 09/05/2022 08:43

Going against the grain here. You sound like a human being. Just perhaps a little more honest with yourself than some.

Innocenta · 09/05/2022 08:43

I don't think you should jump to self diagnosing, whether it's with a personality disorder or neurodiversity. It's very easy to think you have these things (as the diagnostic criteria are often wide and ambiguous), and it doesn't necessarily mean a self diagnosis will be helpful. When I was much younger, I self diagnosed a personality disorder, sought out official diagnosis and gave them all my symptoms, etc... A couple of years later, I was reevaluated and it turned out all my 'personality disorder' symptoms were something else entirely (PTSD, in my case). It can be harmful to get into one way of thinking about yourself based on a self diagnosis.

I do think you should consider going back into therapy. I would suggest either Compassion Focussed Therapy or Cognitive Analytic Therapy. I've done the latter myself and it was genuinely life changing, the first step in understanding a lot about myself that I wasn't in touch with before (or could only access in a very self punitive way).

AttilaTheMeerkat · 09/05/2022 08:45

People from dysfunctional families end up playing roles; what was (and likely remains) yours in your family when you were growing up?. It appears you were and remain the scapegoat here in your family of origin.

Why did you leave therapy?. I would look a lot further into what happened in your childhood in terms of emotional neglect from your parents because you are thinking about and further punishing yourself for stuff that happened years ago. Emotional neglect causes trauma and you likely still feel undeserving or unworthy of any happiness now. DO read Runnning on Empty and also the Body Keeps the Score.

Innocenta · 09/05/2022 08:45

Fwiw I think it's absolutely possible you could have all the experiences you describe and not have a diagnosable disorder or neurodiversity. Imo some people are jumping very quickly to say that these are the explanations, but - please keep an open mind Flowers

AttilaTheMeerkat · 09/05/2022 08:47

"I did read the self loathing part can be quite common with people on the spectrum".

Where did you read that piece of misinformation?. There is an awful lot of rubbish written about people on the spectrum and such can be damaging to those who read it.

gracedentssketty · 09/05/2022 08:50

Following, as this sounds a lot like me.

im calmer now as early 40’s and married with 2 young DC but I have an awful lot of self hatred, especially about the thoughts about others (judgemental etc) which go on in my head and which I wish i could stop

sending love

ImpulsiveFlake · 09/05/2022 08:54

I recognise a lot of myself in your post. I have ADHD. It's not just about not being able to concentrate - it comes with rejection sensitivity and high levels of self-hatred from years of fucking things up. It also comes with a brain that can make connections that normal brains don't (like you I'm a great liar and am very good in arguments too...). I am bubbly and open so have no problem making friends but I can't maintain the friendships - I don't fall out with people but I let them drift away because I convince myself that they don't really like me - or worse, because I find a lot of people boring. (Which makes me feel bad). And it is also exhausting and overwhelming, particularly at times of stress (basic tasks can seem impossible, I lash out at people in frustration). It might not be ADHD but do check it out. You can get online tests which can establish if you're in the right ballpark. They can also provide a starting point if you decide to go to the doctor/get therapy.

Be kind to yourself. You're not a bad person. I've done a lot worse than you if it makes you feel better. 😳

LazyJayne · 09/05/2022 09:11

Hey mate, sounds like you have a guilt complex and what sounds like a tendency towards rumination and possibly perfectionism.

Nothing you've described doing is awful. Some of it isn't even slightly bad, it's just normal behaviour. Other people do much worse. Everyone lies. Stop holding yourself up to this 'perfect' standard of how you think you should be acting and stop fretting over things that have already happened.

Amigobay · 09/05/2022 09:26

I can relate massively with much of what you’ve said. Particularly the self hatred, ability to lie, affair, great at arguing etc. I had CBT but I hated it - in the end I just gave them the answers they wanted to get it over with. I didn’t want to be honest about how horrible I am, and I don’t know how to stop or change it either! Sertraline helped control some of the extreme feelings but also dulled down the good things.

I have no advice but just wanted to say I completely understand and relate to what you’ve said.

Thereisnolight · 09/05/2022 09:30

Swayingpalmtrees · 09/05/2022 07:58

You are giving yourself a bloody hard time, why don't you stop berating yourself for a moment and consider this.

Why have your taken responsibility for the family fractures, especially as you seem to be saying your sister is the golden child, and I assume by extension you were the black sheep? Have you thought about the damage that has done to your self esteem and self image?
Have they really been selfless loving parents?
Have they had no part in the difficulties?

What you describe in your teens and twenties is normal stuff! We all did things we were not proud of, it is called growing up. I lost most of my old friends too, there were so many cat fights when we were young, but eventually we all drifted in different directions not intentionally but that is what people do. The married man is married, you were not, so why are you the bad guy?

You sound avoidant in relationships which is why you can't commit, and maybe that is based on insecurity? A lack of belief that you are worth it?

We are ALL capable of doing horrendous things, of lying and hurting others. Every time we choose not to we are displaying restraint and maturity.

I think you need some psychodynamic counselling and CBT to reframe your negative thoughts, and to explore your childhood. You need to learn to love yourself flaws and all. None of us are perfect, and you shouldn't expect to be Flowers

Agree with all this.
Your post doesn’t sound like neurodiversity to me.

CambsAlways · 09/05/2022 09:31

Personality disorder I’m thinking

Innocenta · 09/05/2022 09:31

CambsAlways · 09/05/2022 09:31

Personality disorder I’m thinking

How do you think this helps OP?

Innocenta · 09/05/2022 09:33

@Thereisnolight I agree. I think it's quite worrying that there's such an urgency among posters to label OP and to medicalise her experiences. It sounds like there have been some painful dynamics and there is a lot of self blame in the picture too. No need to jump to any particular diagnosis when there may not be one (or if there is, we certainly can't tell from a few posts on MN).

Insertdeadcatsnamehere · 09/05/2022 09:34

The teen / twenties stuff all sounds perfectly normal to me.

Wanderislu · 09/05/2022 09:37

Swayingpalmtrees · 09/05/2022 08:03

PS My cat bites me, and has done for 14 years!!! Cats are not known to love humans....and I was scared of her a little, so she carried on biting Grin

This is not a sign of your horrible character op, just that you are not a cat person. You see everything in a prism of self hatred, so you are blaming anything that goes wrong around you, on yourself. It is misplaced. The cat was problem in the rescue centre in the first place because it didn't like people.....it was not you.

@Swayingpalmtrees thanks, I just see people bonding with cats and being more loving. I just didn’t feel much for it which worried me too.

OP posts:
Wanderislu · 09/05/2022 09:49

thanks for all the messages, really has given me things to think about.

a lot of people have mentioned childhood… I don’t think I really had a traumatic childhood. I had everything I needed. I was a bit of a brat I think. I remember once I was crying about going to bed/not wanting to, which was a regular occurrence and I would shout and throw things, maybe age 8 and my dad dragged me downstairs and grabbed my head and positioned it towards the tv and said look at people with real problems (the news was on).

my parents often talked about me behind my back and I would get wind of this when they were relaying to another family member - grandparent or distant aunt etc - how much trouble I was. This led me to listen in to their conversations a lot and they’d be comparing me with my sister. I found that hard as a child but can see why they were doing it now, they obviously felt they wanted help.

My mum would often say if something happened to her and my dad that she’d know I was ok because I had my sister but she’d worry for my sister because my sister would only have me. I never really understood that comment because I am quite a kind person even when I’m having an outburst or lashing out, there is kindness in me and I would always support someone who needed me, especially my sister.

I think my whole life I have felt misunderstood by them and the odd one out. The thing is recently I have began to try and do things to impress them, I think maybe I always did but now I am conscious of it for the first time. I desperately want their approval about my relationships, a car I drive or decide I won’t drive (to show I’m not ‘flashy’ or ‘being spoiled’). I am anxious around them to the extent that a cloud descends when I meet them even though I enjoy it when I’m with them. I can’t know for sure what they say about me these days but if I was going to bet, I would probably say they still despair of me and whilst they love me they will always have me down as the difficult child and the nightmare child - words they used often.

It does make me sad as I cannot be myself round them. How I am with my partner and my best friends is completely different. I am almost literally like a different person. It is very hard to explain. I remember once when I was 23 and had finished two years of law school where I had basically not seen a soul or done anything, my boyfriend at the time took me away for the night to a spa. My parents were really strange about it and said I didn’t deserve that after how awful I had been when revising - I would lock myself away and not speak and gone stressed etc. I ended up hiding photos on social media as I felt huge guilt about doing anything nice.

these things are a few that went on but really nothing is justifiable to call my parents cunts in anger or to be too sensitive and read into things to such an extent that I struggle to be calm and happy around them. That is on me as an adult and I carry it over into relationships with other people like partners. I am such a mess.

OP posts:
HotSauceCommittee · 09/05/2022 09:50

I like you, OP. You sound self-aware. Ask yourself if you'd go back and do the things you listed on here that you are ashamed of. You wouldn't. We all do less than admirable things, as humans. Most of us (you!) see the error of our ways and move on.
I can see people being warm to you and wanting to help on this thread even though you've listed all your mistakes.
What does that tell you?

Wanderislu · 09/05/2022 09:53

Also people posting ideas as to what may be wrong ie personality disorder etc, it is hard to read but I welcome it as I am searching for answers as to why I am such a monster and why I have messed up so much. I would love to know I was on a road to being different on future but I’m not, I don’t think.

OP posts:
Wanderislu · 09/05/2022 09:55

Probably the best way to describe me when I am at my worst is out of control. I feel personally out of control and scared of myself. The things that come out of my mouth etc. In my lowest moments of anger I would think nothing of pouring away my own perfume that cost a lot or damaging my car for instance. I don’t care who or what I hurt, even myself, I am as much a casualty as anyone else. It’s terrifying.

OP posts:
SignOnTheWindow · 09/05/2022 09:57

OP, I can empathise with you.

I really, really think you need to be kinder about yourself (though saying this, I know it's hard when it's ingrained in you to think, 'everyone else deserves kindness and leniency except me because I'm awful'.

Tell us about some good things you have done.

Wanderislu · 09/05/2022 10:03

@Amigobay thanks. It really does help to hear I’m not alone. Though I highly doubt your thoughts have ever been as terrible as mine! I also tried cbt a while ago but the problem I found with a lot of mental health support is I can even manipulate that process. I honestly wonder if there’s any doctor who could diagnose me afresh if I tried not to get a diagnosis if you see what I mean.

OP posts:
Watchkeys · 09/05/2022 10:04

I don’t think I really had a traumatic childhood

v

I think my whole life I have felt misunderstood by them and the odd one out

Trauma isn't all about drugs and violence. You felt like the odd one out then and you feel like the odd one out now. It's no different. You've been conditioned.

Lots of the examples you gave are not problems with you. You didn't go to the hen party, and they were cruel afterwards? Well, then they're cruel people; that isn't what kind, loving friends would do if you didn't go to their hen party. So, quite possibly, you didn't go because you didn't really like them? Perhaps because you felt, with them, the way you did with your family? A group of people who treat you as if you're a bit different, and not in a good way?

You're getting diagnoses on this thread from people who aren't qualified.

nothing is justifiable to call my parents cunts in anger or to be too sensitive and read into things to such an extent that I struggle to be calm and happy around them

It sounds like you squash your feelings down until they have to come out of their own volition, by force. I think you need to try to understand that your feelings are fine. Everybody has unpleasant thoughts sometimes. You must have heard people say things like 'Bloody hell, I could have strangled him!' in exasperation. Feelings are all ok, whatever they are. Unless you are actually acting on them and doing nasty things, it's fine. You need to find a way to accept and express your hurts within yourself, rather than beating yourself up, silencing them, and then exploding.

Respect your feelings: they are who you are. They are your heart and soul expressing themselves. If you don't respect them, you'll have no option to feel like crap. It's your responsibility to yourself to switch this around. You're in charge.

WDTABNONONO · 09/05/2022 10:07

Other then the work situation this sounds like me.

Self sabotage runs through this post.

What's so hard for me is I've lied and cheated yet I genuinely care for people deeply and would do anything for anyone- these things are at odds.

I've hated myself since I remember.

Honestly, I totally relate to your post.

I think forgiving yourself for the past and getting therapy for the future designer specifically for a personality disorder might be the way forward.

Swayingpalmtrees · 09/05/2022 10:08

my dad dragged me downstairs and grabbed my head
my parents often talked about me behind my back and I would get wind of this
Relaying to another family member - grandparent or distant aunt etc - how much trouble I was
I am anxious around them to the extent that a cloud descends when I meet them even though I enjoy it when I’m with them
I didn’t deserve that after how awful I had been when revising - I would lock myself away and not speak
if something happened to her and my dad that she’d know I was ok because I had my sister but she’d worry for my sister because my sister would only have me

Reread that list, that is your 'perfect' parents and their good parenting according to you...
Can you genuinely say hand on heart that the above can be anything other than very damaging to the little girl you were and now an adult?

I consider your list to be emotional abuse, and not at the mild end.

And then you lash out because you are hurting you and they are playing with you, and then you are the bad guy?

Can you not see the dynamic here?

Where is the love?
Where is the loyalty and not talking to others behind your back?
Where is the support when you are in law school or struggling?
Where is the acknowledgement of your many strengths? Your razor sharp mind and wit, your humour? Your progress?

Healthy parents champion their children, not highlight over and over again what is not perfect or positive.

This is who you are:

I never really understood that comment because I am quite a kind person even when I’m having an outburst or lashing out, there is kindness in me

And your parents know it too. And so do I. And most of the people on this thread.
When it has have drilled into you that you are nothing but trouble, the bad one for decades from birth, it is really not so easy to erase the labels they given you, please consider at the very least challenging their view, and now your view of yourself, please start there.

You are a kind person. Start and finish, and even kind people get exasperated and angry when they are manipulated, mistreated and abused.