I’m a nasty bitch and always have been

[Wanderislu]

The hatred I have for myself began to tip over into other people in my twenties.

Objectively, I’m successful, financially pretty ok with wealthy ish background, lots of friends, slim, reasonably attractive and when ‘on form’ and feeling ok can be a great friend; patient, kind, extremely understanding. I can be good fun and lightheaded and people seem to like me. But probably wouldn’t if they knew the truth.

fundamentally, and pretty much all the time I hate myself. I have snippets of seeing myself in the ways I describe above but it’s not consistent behaviour. I have crumbled further in recent years, made more mistakes.

I text a best friend’s boyfriend when I was 17. I knew fully what I was doing and knew it was wrong at the time.

in my early twenties I had a bit of a social crisis. Friends from school getting married etc and I just shrunk away. I didn’t got to one of the girls hen dos and I lost my circle of friends from school. It still makes me sad now. I did reach out but they were quite cruel so I didn’t try again afterwards.

at uni I used to see a guy in our friendship group in secret and then one of the girls started to like him. We carried on in secret even though she would talk about how much she liked him. When they found out they did forgive me but it was never the same again.

in my twenties I had a lovely relationship but couldn’t cope when it became more intense. I remember once I actually ran off down a canal and he had to chase me. I shouted that I didn’t love him.

I had an affair in my late twenties with a married man. He claimed to be separated and at first I believed that but a few months in I found evidence that he was definitely still very much married. I carried on.

I can be lazy at work. I’m paid a decent amount of money and some days I do the absolute bare minimum. Probably 10% of someone in nursing or another job that SHOULD be paid well. I’m awful.

i don’t get on massively well with my family. There were problems growing up in that my sister was seen as the one who could do no wrong and I was the tear away. That narrative has continued and I am not really part of the family unit in any real or genuine way. That makes me sad as my family are actually good people really, even if they made mistakes bringing us up.

I lie easily and naturally. There are lines that I draw where i wouldn’t lie and for example I would never lie to the police or about something serious. But still, I can lie and I do it well. I do it often if it benefits me. I hate myself for this.

I am intelligent and I know it and can often outwit other people in stressful situations. I had a partner who was in a very high up job, well educated and switched on. if we had an argument I would absolutely wipe the floor with him. I cannot stand myself for having this quality, my mind is always in overdrive and I am, most of the time, one step ahead without realising. I can never relax and be genuinely happy.

I confided all this in a therapist before and she said because I had self awareness this was a huge plus point and that someone who was genuinely unkind and evil wouldn’t even question themselves. How can that even be true?! I probably KNOW on some level that by analysing myself it can lessen the blow of what I do and how I behave in terms of others’ perceptions…which just makes me even more of a nasty and manipulative bitch, not less. Im still behaving the same way even though I recognise it’s not right. I am even worse than someone who doesn’t recognise it!!

When I feel alone or stressed I can be absolutely awful to my family and partner. It’s like I hate myself so much that I want to be hated by everyone else. I can’t really control the words that come out of my mouth and it is like an out of body experience. I’ve explained this to them in calmer moments but of course there’s little sympathy because a) it sounds like a feeble excuse and b) I’m still being an utter cunt and why should they care the reasons behind it.

I hate myself when I am ‘on good form’ these days because it almost scares me that I am capable of such varying degrees of behaviour. I no longer really can tell if the nice me is the real me. How can I know.

Ive made so many mistakes and lost so many people and because I can chat and engage and be a good friend when I am feeling ok, I manage to recruit more people in my life which I tend to later fuck up. I do have a few long term friends of ten years or so but we are very close and I guess it’s just that we get on so well that it’s been fine.

I am now mid thirties. I have some very good friends but my relationship with my family is very fractured and I often reflect on all the awful, manipulative, selfish things I have done. I do not cope well and I will either have days where I am absolutely brilliant and could be the most in control, sunny, kind woman and days where I don’t wash, can’t hold a conversation without getting angry and then spend significant time in tears. There is no middle ground.

I am so worried I will end up in a very awful state and unable to function at all.

Thanks for posting this. I am much older than you and thought I was the only one that was like this . I think my behaviour means my family can hate and fear me. So much resonates with me , even the counselling and controlling the scenario. Sad that there does not be a simple answer to help with this .

@Watchkeys I do feel a lot of anger about my upbringing but I know rationally that nothing excuses swearing at my parents and being as nasty as I can be.

im not even sure why I am so angry about it. I can’t really pinpoint it because my life was filled with luxury as a child and even into adulthood I was bought a car and helped with a home. I’ve always worked hard to impress my parents but I’ve also had it easy really. There’s only been a few occasions where I’ve called them out on things that happened and it’s the most painful thing ever because they both just support one another and tell me I’m terrible and deluded and that I was competent spoilt. On one occasion they did apologise for being aggressive at times but it was tempered with ‘what else would you do if you had a child like you?’

this is also links to the fear I have now that I will be a shit mum myself.

I agree with possibly being neurodivergent. That was my first thought when I saw your opening post.

Women who ate neurodivergent can be wrongly diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. Please don’t go there in terms of researching and thinking that explains you. It is a catch all given to patients (mainly women) who drs cannot think of anything else to diagnosis with. There is research that shows a huge proportion of women diagnosed have experienced quite severe abuse, predominately sexual abuse, and have symptoms consistent with C-PTSD and are wrongly labelled and therefore further abused by a system that labels them as having something wrong with them 😒

Anyway, I digress. Back to neurodiversity as a possibility, and a good counsellor who can help to unpack some of your childhood trauma.

This is growing faster than I can keep up but have tried my best to RTFT to where it was when I started typing.
You sound a bit like me and a lot like my two former best friends (from different times in life). They thought I didn't know what they were really like behind the mask but I did and I wanted to stay friends with them anyway, unfortunately they got in their own way too much and eventually pushed me away in cycles of self sabotage. I got diagnosed with ADHD after 5 years of being misdiagnosed first as bipolar then as borderline. IDK what their things were (if anything).

Don't jump to a diagnosis, I think it's abominable that some posters are pushing you in the direction of specific diagnoses (unfortunately there are psychiatrists out there who will do this based on snippets too, which is how I got misdiagnosed for so long). Some things like being calm in a crisis then having a meltdown over grapes is definitely something I do and for me it's caused by my neurodiversity/ADHD but you could have another diagnosis or nothing at all. You could just be hyper critical and have low self esteem. I found the best description as "a ferrarri brain with bicycle brakes".

But mostly I wanted you to know you're not the only one and you're not irredeemable, you are just as worthy of love, respect and kindness from others and from yourself as anyone else on this planet. And are you able to just stop the lying? I was reading A Woman Of Substance aged 22 and one line in it was that Emma never lied to herself, and I decided I wasn't going to lie to myself anymore either. That was the biggest thing. Not lying to other people came in time off the back of that.

T

Thank you @Innocenta . I just flicked Bach through after writing my own post and was heartened to see what you have written about BPD. I work in a mental health role and have quite strong feelings about that diagnosis; slightly horrified to see posters casually suggesting it.

Thanks for what you've added to the thread too, @RockLampSalt

OP, I think virtually everyone here will understand you are not drip feeding. I hope no one will accuse you of that. Drip feeding is not the same thing as needing to disclose info bit by bit when it's a difficult and emotional topic, that's hard to talk about. Sometimes even the OP themselves needs time to figure out what else they need to say; that's totally normal and not something that should be criticised.

I understand what you're saying about there being no excuse. But you're trying to excuse yourself for being at fault in a situation where anything you did would have been perceived as wrong. I think that, rather than trying to fully excuse yourself, it might be a good idea to consider 'mitigating circumstances', which make your actions understandable, and so, even if you didn't behave ideally, you can still forgive yourself, because you accept that others would have behaved the same way as you, had they been in the same boat.

Your childhood sounds really horrible. They may well have given you everything you wanted materially, but that's not where the issues in your life are, is it. The issues are related to how they felt about you, which, as it's meant to, has translated into how you feel about you.

The things you say/feel about yourself are strangely similar to their views of you, don't you think? Humans are very 'monkey see, monkey do'. Our parents teach us 'how we should be thought of', and then that's how we think of ourselves. DO you think that might be what's happened with you?

Have you looked at the 'Stately homes' thread, by the way? It was started years ago by someone who didn't think she'd been abused because her parents used the excuse that they took her to stately homes throughout her childhood. It sounds remarkably similar to your upbringing: materially great/emotionally destructive.

You'll be ok, you know. The fact that you've posted a thread shows you're ready to start sorting it. It might feel crappy, but you're in a good place. You're at the beginning of making everything better.

@Innocenta thanks, I feel the abortion and current pregnancy risk are relevant as it probably highlights even more what I mean about who I am. I think I’ve always been looking for security and wanted a family and just grappled around for it in the lost reprehensible way. If I am actually pregnant I worry I would be a shit mum and don’t think I could abort again. I think my partner would stick by me but if he doesn’t it’s just another thing I’ve done which has made a mess.

As pp have said, so many of your examples are things lots of people have done and mistakes are part and parcel of growing up - most of us have text or had relations with someone another person liked - they weren’t together. That is a non issue. You are only human OP and humans are all complex - wonderful and flawed too.

I can’t comment on whether you are ND but what stands out is how much you blame yourself for events and how you see these events as much more serious ‘wrong doing’ than most of them are. Where there are clearly other parties involved you take all the blame and responsibility for the situation. For example it sounds like your family definitely have a part to play in the challenges in your current relationship, probably more so than you.

Be kind to yourself OP. The example about you sometimes feeling lazy at work probably applies to most office workers at some point. Yes nurses do an amazing job but not all of us are cut out for caring work. Sometimes our contribution is just feeling we are in a role that we can go well, training and supporting our colleagues, paying our taxes, giving to charity where we can, and keeping the economy going by earning and spending! However I bet there are times when you have also gone the extra mile and done overtime at work but you wouldn’t focus on that.

Focus on what you are good at. It sounds like you have a lot of friends, they like you for a reason! Yes you’ve fallen out with some, but who hasn’t lost friendships over the years. Take care OP

I could have written much of your post about 15 years ago. In fact I went to the doctor to see if I had a personality disorder but after assessment, I was told the only thing 'wrong' with me was chronically low self-esteem. The most helpful thing for me was cognitive behavioural therapy and learning to open up to a few trusted friends. I now mostly like myself!

The brain being one step ahead comment interests me, it doesn't apply to me but it does to my daughter and her dad and her dad is diagnosed as autistic.

But why would you want to manipulate a therapist/psychiatrist? You’ve got to a point where you seem to really want to find out what is going on and if you did that you’d just be shouting yourself in the foot. Why would you bother?

@Whatlovelyweather Sometimes the reasons why you think you've manipulated the therapist can be all mixed up with the other issues / how you see yourself in general. It's often very hard to untangle these things. I'm not saying it was for the same reason(s) as OP, but this is something I also used to worry about hugely (manipulating my therapists), and it still bubbles up for me sometimes. But I'm also much more at peace with the idea now.

Again, not trying to say it's the same issue, or the same underlying 'reason'. But there doesn't necessarily have to be a clearly defined 'real life' motive. And if you think there is one, sometimes it turns out not to be 100% what you thought, anyway.

I did a similar thing, in fact in so many ways I can relate to what you are saying.
I am much older now, and I can clearly so it is was a total absence of self care that lead to pregnancies and abortions. I could not take care of myself. I was not used to feeling safe, so I couldn't recognise when I was unsafe if that makes sense? I could not see danger clearly nor really aware I was running a serious life changing gauntlet by having fun sex without protection. I had very little in the way of boundaries, an absence of standards and I did not think things through at all.
It does not make you a bad person, you were not taught how to care for yourself, to put your body/needs and wishes first. Sometimes it takes decades to learn this stuff, other people grow up knowing all of these things but those in difficult families dynamics do not.

So now you are in decent relationship and you might be pregnant, how decent is he, is it long term and what is this relationship going to look like in 10 or 20 years?
I can't see how you can criticise yourself when you are both involved in creating this possibility - and both of you should decide what is the right thing to do. Is this going to leave you in a precarious position relying on your parents and family? Or do you think it could work?

I would strongly recommend CBT though op - I think it would do amazing for you in a short space of time.

I doubt you manipulated your therapist, they are trained to see and understand what is happening. What you did was manipulate yourself out of getting any proper results, denying yourself the chance to feel better. If you go for it again, be brutally honest, tell them when you can feel you are going to manipulate/lie and explore what is making you feel like that - what is so challenging that you are needing to deflect?

OP a lot of what you said resonates with me. Although I was an only child and not really difficult, I am always trying to impress my parents, not being myself at all, but just someone I think they want me to be. I also bought a cat and then gave it up because I didn’t love it and couldn’t cope. I make rash decisions that could harm me or others. I’m awful in rows and for example with my current partner I’ve finished with him numerous times, always seemed a good idea at the time, but regretted it later and we got back together. At the time my thought process seems ok, I think I’ve thought it through and made the right decision. I’m scared because maybe I can’t think things through at all, I can’t trust myself to make the right decision. I also can manipulate people, e.g in a mental health assessment, I’ll tell them what they need to hear to get the diagnosis I think I need. It sounds awful and I hate myself and the person I am.
i know this doesn’t help, but just wanted to say you’re not alone. I’m now trying to get a correct assessment, but find myself thinking about what to say to get such and such a diagnosis 😩

@Imherenowandthen Speaking as someone who got an incorrect (later revised) diagnosis partly as a result of what I saw at the time as my 'manipulations' of the process, even if that happens, it isn't the end. For me, it took going to another therapist (...and now I'm actually with another one, thanks to moving) to move past the situation I was in. Sometimes it's about the right therapist or the right modality for you, or just the right time in your life.

But I do think it's really important to underline the fact that even something as 'serious' as a major misdiagnosis (while obviously better to avoid if possible) is still something you can move on from, see somebody else, and find help that actually fits what you need.

@Swayingpalmtrees I really appreciate you engaging with me about the abortion and pregnancy situation. I thought everyone would turn on me once I posted that.

Did you have a baby in a similar way? If you don’t mind me asking.

I don’t feel I could have another abortion, I nearly killed myself last time it was absolutely awful. The relationship is ok, it’s not perfect and I have mentioned I could be and he said he would support me. I doubt it would be the easiest thing ever though and I wasn’t honest with him about contraception. I think he suspects that but hasn’t said. This is just absolutely in keeping though with my mental health. I got it into my head a while ago that I was never going to be a mum, crying daily, chatting about it with him daily, him saying yes soon but not yet and then that’s what I did. I’m awful. I want to be better. And I can’t believe I’ve exposed myself to a similar situation after the darkness that descended on my life after last time I did that.

I wish so much I was a balanced person all the time, not just 30% of the time. Having read this thread I do wonder how much of my feeling is tied to my childhood as I feel much more like me and much less out of control when with friends and colleagues. But maybe that’s me excusing myself again.

I doubt you manipulated your therapist, they are trained to see and understand what is happening

Unfortunately this simply isn't the case.

Op, there is alot for to unpack My advice is to find someone who is highly experienced to talk through. Ultimately the diagnosis isn't that important, more the ability for you to feel better which will come with the right help.

It's scary isn't it. I suspect the problem will and your quality of life will improve if you'd made your self esteem your top priority. It has me although it's so difficult. The other thing that helped was saying things out loud that you'd normally be ashamed to admit, the little stuff to start. It's shocking to me how much I hide from people but also how much better it feels to share occasionally and people don't die of shock. I didn't manipulate my therapist apart from I'd be desperate to tell them how much better I felt after their help, my problems were too big for them I thought. I'm 2% into my journey and find your post quite triggery (not a complaint btw). It's such a long road, I'm hoping it'll be a snowball down a steep hill.

You've only got your word you're a horrible person and you've already admitted you're a fibber. Maybe stop saying that to start or allowing yourself to think it. Best wishes.

You could be an impulsive type of personality.

You can improve by working on yourself.

I have my own rules. I started making them from the age of 12-14. Then I added them up/changed them depending on certain life situation(s) I had. We all live and learn and develop if we want to improve our lives.

My Good Behaviour Rules and my own Moral Code. The person I want to be to love & respect myself and others. The person that makes me happy and who I truly am.

My rule is a simple and well-known positive psychology & The Bible's main rule (though I am not that religious anymore, just spiritual with common sense): 'Treat others how you want to be treated.'

1. Good language. What helped me personally to improve, is I told myself I like respectful language. So I use it and avoid swearing and everyone is respectful back to me too.

2. Creating my happy marriage & my childhood dream desire to become a Mum 100% one day. I knew I wanted my baby and would always have him/her (Our son is 15). I've always been pro-life but I never judge people and their life decisions. I've always wanted a minimum of 2 children, maybe 3 or even 4 but I have compromised (it was a Huge compromise for me) as my husband decided to have only 1 based on sleepless nights for 17.5 months and what it takes financially for nursery/childminder fees to have more than 1 baby/child + all other child upbringing expenses except the basic ones - food, clothes, toys, bikes, games, phones like paying for their extra better education, hobbies, tutoring, holidays during school holidays x2-3 times higher prices, etc.

3. My career. I've worked hard for it to achieve it.

4. My fitness.

5. My good loyal friends like I am good and loyal to them

6. Our cosy lovely house

7. My husband is into sports cars as his hobby. Some are flashy ones but all of them are second-hand. Still, he gets lots of fun and enjoyment from them. I don't see a problem with flashy cars whatsoever as long as they are secure in the garage with an alarm on.

If I planned to improve in your place, I would create a step-by-step realistic plan of

1. What you really want to achieve and change for the better

2. How you want to grow as a better person and the best possible version of yourself.

3. How much time (time limits, deadlines) you give yourself to make these changes

4. Who and what can help you in achieving it?

5. How would you reward yourself after achieving it?

6. What really and truly motivates you to achieve it?

7. Who really motivates you toward your desire for positive changes?

8. What/who really matters in your life

9. Why do you want these changes to happen? When you achieve what you would like while working on yourself, how would it make you feel after?

10. How would you like your best life to be like in 1-3 years (short-term goals, 3-5 medium-term goals) years, and 5-10 years (long-term goals)?

Your University Study. Do you think the revision while studying for a law degree at University is too cruel and it drives students crazy with the amount of stress and pressure they get from it?

I don't think you are neuro diverse. I definitely don't think you have a personality disorder. You definitely had a toxic and damaging childhood. You were taught to hate yourself and told over and over again how bad,difficult,unlovable you are. That breeds anger and resentment. Towards yourself,your family the world.

When you're hard on yourself/hating yourself, whose voice and words do you hear? Is it your own or just repeating what you were told by your parents?

You're struck in a vicious circle atm. You want love and connection, you even seek it(not often in the healthiest of ways) but you are afraid of rejection,of fucking up, of them realising who you really are. So you have these awful episodes when you feel cornered/afraid which pushes people away. That the. just confirms all the negative thoughts you have about yourself, and get sucked in even deeper. On and on it goes. Same with your need to win and prove yourself. Prove you are better,smarter, stronger. That you are worthy. That you are deserving.

You do need therapy. Specific therapy, where you talk about all these feelings, your childhood and unpick it all. Where they stem from,what's rational and what isn't, how to cope with them. How to stop yourself before the red mist descends or before you find yourself in a flight or fight situation,because you always fight, and no matter the outcome you always lose, a bit of yourself,your self esteem and self respect, relationships etc. You need help to sort it all out. You deserve help. You are worthy.

if you can afford it OP I would seriously think about seeing a psychiatrist privately, preferably a top NHS consultant. If there are some underlying MH issues or something like ADHD then you will be able to secure yourself a diagnosis and maybe even medication to improve how you feel about things. It might also give you a better understanding about yourself and your behaviours, and help you manage it all a little bit better.