Ex wants 50/50 - am I being selfish?

[DeskInUse]

Am I being selfish?

My exh has just asked to share 50% contact with our dd. We've been divorced for 8 years and our dd is now 14. We divorced due to a dv incident.

When we first divorced I offered him as much contact as he wanted, however he only wanted to see her eow, primarily due to work and him not wanting to take a step down in his career. As she's got older, his relationship with her has improved. I try to be charitable and put this down to the fact that some people just don't enjoy small children. In reality my opinion is that she's far more self sufficient and less 'work'

I feel uncomfortable with his request for a few reasons, firstly he met a woman in January, and she moved into his house a few weeks ago with her 2 dd (who see their df 50% of the time), this woman is a stranger, someone she's (and my ex) have only known for 4 months. My ex has had countless gf's, who would always be introduced to dd, within weeks of them meeting. He's never been more than a few weeks without a gf, this will be the 3rd woman he's moved in with since we split.

I think because he's now got a live in gf who also has dc, it won't be him looking after dd, the new woman works from home and chances are he won't be changing his lifestyle to accommodate my dd, his new gf probably will.

I recently found out my dd has been self harming, I've arrange some private counselling which is due to start this week.

This may, or may not be related to the self harming, but I fostered a little girl a few years ago. Un- be known to me, she had severe behavioural issues, and my dd bore the brunt of this, and she ended up having to leave and go to a specialist placement which my dd took quite hard. We still see her, but I know my dd still misses her a lot.

My ex has always been quite self centred, his wants have always come first. He would refuse to contribute to things like school informs, saying he had no money, but in the same week buy a new car, or tell me he couldn't afford to contribute towards her hobby and then book a holiday for himself. He's happy for her to tag along to what he's doing, but will rarely put himself out for her, such as driving to her friends house. It's only recently I've managed to convince him to take her to her hobby on a weekend

He also puts very few boundaries in place, she can do what she wants when she's with him.

I'm really trying to put her first, but I don't see any benefit to a 50/50 split for her. I'm not sure if this is my selfishness in not wanting her to go, or that i have valid reasons. I know if I asked her she'd not tell me what she wanted, she'd just try and keep the peace and not want to upset him.

I've told him we'll have a conversation this week but my head is a muddle and I want to do what's right for dd, not what's right for me or my ex.

@Zonder yes I did tell her that without the cms I'd not be able to afford for her to do her hobby whilst she's with her df, but nothing would change when she's with me. Ex has said he'll continue with her riding, but we'll see as not only is it the expense, it's the time and running around that's involved. She currently goes on a Wednesday at 5, so I arranged with my boss to start work early on a Wednesday so I could leave early. Things like that I'm not sure he's considered.

I am not sure why you wold stop paying for her hobby?

If a dad said - well if you go spend more time with your mother, I won't pay for you to do your hobbies that you like - he would be crucified.

Her hobbies and your financial investment in them shouldn't be conditional on her living with you.

@Midlifemusings I think it was more that with a 50 50 split and losing CMS op wouldn't be able to afford to pay for the hobby.

@Midlifemusings I will lose the cms when she goes 50/50 with her df which means I won't be able to afford to pay for her hobby 100% of the time, which I currently do (even on the weekends she goes to her df at the moment). I will find the money to pay for her hobby on the weeks she stays with me, but it will mean that I'll have to make financial sacrifices in other areas as, financially, I'll be a lot worse off. Thankfully I'm in a well paid job so we are 'comfortable' which means I can do this, but I'm not 'well off' by any means.

Does he realise that 50/50 encompasses clothes , pocket money , entertainment , phone costs , pocket money , shoes , holidays , toiletries etc ? It doesn't mean she packs a bag at your house and just goes to ' stay ' at his.
She should also have her own bedroom that is hers entirely ( if she has the same already at your / her home ) at his house , so she can leave everything there and it will be exactly as it was when she returns.

I think you have been very clear with her.

Now I think you need to say to your ex the Child benefit situation alongside a breezy I am sure that you wish for that to continue.

And set out exactly what holidays etc are. I suspect this wont last that long once they realise what is involved. Make it clear that you are responsible for your time and his is for his and set out what that is.

And most importantly DONT STEP IN. Your DD is old enough and you have explained the consequences of it. You need to clearly define your time and his and not do anything.

If his CMS went towards the hobby make that clear and say that. If she goes in with her eyes wide open that is all you can do

I know is dd that will suffer and it will be me that has to lend him what he's forgotten - and that will piss me off even more.

I know it will be and I know it feels like it but you really cant. You have set out and arranged everything your end - and I think you can say you will be there if she wants to come back but everything else you need to leave.

Otherwise you are teaching her to step in when a man fails - they have made the decision so they need to work with it

You will be saving money because she will not be with you as often and there are therefore less expenses for you. I have no doubt that you could afford it if you wanted to but this is a way to punish her for not appreciating all you have done for her and for choosing to spend more time with someone you dont think deserves her time. It is your choice and your anger may be justified - in the end however removing things she finds therapeutic to make your point when she is already struggling may mean you are contrinuting to have negative health outcomes for her.

Obviously it would be ideal if her dad steps up and pays for it and maybe he will but be honest about your reasons - she is going to see right through your excuses about money. Just like you saw though her dads when he said he couldn't afford things for her. You mention it in your OP and now you are doing the same.

I've emailed him all this, so I think I now need to sit back and leave him to it. I know he's asked her to get some school shoes if we go into town (which we won't), but I've heard nothing about trainers for pe, so I'm sitting on my hands trying not to 'fix' it all, whilst seething that I had to pay for her trip via the app because he didn't know how to do it, and didn't have the sense to find out.

Gahhhhh what possessed me to have kids with him!

Midlifemusings - she definitely needs to fund it on her time I agree. But her time. Make sure everything continues on her time but actually she shouldnt be doing anything for the ex. Because I dont think doing so helps her DD. Her DD wants to try this - and maybe she should. But the OP shouldnt step in

And that is her choice - but be honest about it. Tell her daughter that dad has to fund and plan her activities on his time and she will do the same on her time. It isn't that OP can't afford it - it is that she is deciding to draw a boundary and not support DD's activities while with dad as that is his responsibility.

For me - I would keep paying for the therapist and horseriding if it is therapeutic because at the end of the day it should be about what is best for her daughter and not about how hurt OP is that her daughter wants to spend more time with her dad and less time with OP even though OP did the hard work and dad waltzed in. OP's DD did ask to be born or raised in this situation. She isn't responsible for her dads actions and she doesn't need to turn her back to him out of guilt to make OP happy and to ensure she feels appreciated. OPs feelings are also not DD's responsibility. DD is 14 and navigating her life as it presents itself to her with all the issues and complexities that are there through no fault of her own.

Therapy should definitely be separate. And the OP should fund it on her time - but funding the horseriding is only helpful if he takes. If he isnt taking then what is the point.

The DD didnt ask and she isnt responsible - but she is making this choice. At 14 she needs to know and understand exactly what that choice is. The OP stepping in simply reinforces the idea that as a woman she needs to prevent her Dad making mistakes. Clearly defined boundaries from the start (agreed upon with the DD and the ex) is what is needed here.

And I think is best for the DD - she has made the decision - her Mum stepping in to fix things isnt going to be helpful for her in the long term. She is clearly hoping her Dad is someone he isnt

OP have you spoken to the therapist about how best to handle this?

I will continue to pay for the therapist each week.. it's the one thing I don't want to rely on my ex funding in case he decides he can't afford it.

I think you're all right, I need to take a step back for my own sanity, and to ensure my dd doesn't see me 'saving' her dad and think it's her role to do this in her relationships going forward.

With regards to her horse riding, she has always been quite an anxious person, painfully shy, wouldn't even go into a shop on her own. I've always given her the option of trying new hobbies but she never really took to any, with the exception of horse riding. She's now got a lovely group of horse friends, she will join in, go to the stables on a Sunday to help out the other children, and at least she's out and about in the fresh air. Her instructor has said she's coming on amazingly well and she's said she could probably end up doing events etc which my dd was thrilled about. We'd even started looking into a loan horse for her. I just don't want all her new found confident and independence to be lost because her df can't be arsed to keep it up.

Sorry I'm just whinging now

I think you're doing a great job @DeskInUse in sorting this out and letting your DD try it whilst having to grapple your own feelings. No advice, just wanted to give you a hug x

Yes exactly - it is not your role to save this and if you do it is telling her that it is hers too.

Maybe explain to the instructor and ask for them to keep in contact with you as well so you can see how it works.

Good luck - I would grey rock this as much as you can though when it is going ahead and I think you need to say to your DD that you are continuing with the therapist and the horse riding on your terms but that 50/50 means just that and it will be split now.

Make it clear though that if SHE has concerns then she can come to you and you will help fix it because that is different. But his time is just that - his time to sort stuff.

Anyone who thinks supporting their child in therapy and therapeutic riding for mental health is the same as saving a man in a relationship has major issues. This a child - and unfortunately both adults are more about being in a pissing match than caring about the DD.

I personally wouldn't cut my child off from therapeutic activities for their mental health because they chose to spend time with the other parent instead of me and so out of hurt, I want to punish the child for not prioritzing my hurt feelings. The whole "well she chose this so she can suffer the consequences of choosing the spend time with her father" is really sad. Children shouldn't be put in a position where spending time with a parent comes with consequences / punishments because the other parent doesn't like it. However that is why so many divorces and coparenting relationships as so acronomious as many parents focus more on being vindictive and spiteful and about their own feelings then the children who had zero choice in the family or situation they are in. DD is not responsible for OPs happiness and it is unfortunate that OPs happiness is based on needing DD to be with her and to appreciate her as a parent as those really are not DDs responsibility at all. And for those who advocate to cut her off from her hobbies or therapies to prove a point to her dad - at what point do you step back and realize you still have a duty to the child you brought into the world even if the other parent doesn't take their duty seriously. Both parents having a "well I can't afford her" and telling DD that it is her job to make her parents act like adults is a real shame.

And for the record I would feel the exact same way about a father who said he wouldn't pay for any expenses while the child was with their mother - no hobbies, no childcare, no school fees, no therapy etc. That if the child wanted those things then they could only have them if they stayed with him full time. If they chose to spend time with their mother then they get nothing from him - as his way of ensuring the child's mother is standing on her own two feet and not benefiting from him.

No one is saying that at all@Midlifemusings but the Dad needs to facilitate taking her on his time therefore there is actually very little the OP can do if he decides not too

And yes she does have a duty - but that duty involves helping the DD to become an adult which involves taking responsiblity for her decisions. It is for the DD that I am advocating this approach not for the OP.

The OP needs to continue therapy (she is) facilitate horseriding on her time (she is) an open dialogue with the horseriding as to the impact of the move (I am sure she will) and say to her DD that she is there if she needs help if SHE asks for it (so if she needs something when with her Dad)

It is not about proving a point to the Dad at all - it is about ensuring clearly defined boundaries as to how it works.

I have never said the OP should prioritise her own feelings. A lot of my advice comes from centring the child

Children shouldn't be put in a position where spending time with a parent comes with consequences

But it does. Of course it does - what the OP needs to make sure on the flipside that her DD does not feel responsible for her happiness and therefore stays because of her. That would be wrong. She needs to let her go with a smile on her face with clearly defined schedules and boundaries in place. Sacrificing everything for a child is not the right choice either.

This is a 14 year old as well not a preteen or child. Someone who should be well aware of all of this if explained properly

unfortunately both adults are more about being in a pissing match than caring about the DD

I really dont see this at all. I see an OP who cares about her DD a lot

@Quartz2208

I realize many people see things differently. I don't see a 14 year old as an adult who needs to be taught a lesson that if you choose to spend time with the other parent, then I will do as little for you as possible. Is that really the lesson you want a 14 year old to learn - that she is responsible for the feelings of her parents and if she doesn't make choices that make her mom happy then mom will make sure there are consequences. That sets up a terrible pattern for future relationships. Feeling like your job is to always make decisions that keep your partner happy and that you owe them for anything they did for you - or else you deserve to be punished or consequnced? Again, if a father told a 14 year old that, I doubt people would be saying great - yes. make mom and 14 year old responsible. They need to learn to stand on their own. A 14 year old needs to learn that if she wants to see her mom, then there are consequences and dad will not provide any support at all during any time she chooses time with mom over him. DO you really think it is right to not expect fathers to provide any support with anything during the time a child is with their mother to make sure she acts like an adult and does it all herself? I know an awful lot of women who depend on the child's father's financial support during their time with their kids. You may think all those women are just like OPs ex and should be cut off and learn to do it all on their own but even the courts won't agree with you - they see both parents as having responsibilities regardless of where the child is physically located and they aren't big on on parent punishing a child or teen if they want to see the other parent.

Anyways views like the ones on this thread keep lawyers and therapists in business for years. They benefit most from parents focused on going at each other regardless of the cost to the kids.

I think you're deliberately misunderstanding me @Midlifemusings

My dd's well-being will always come first, if I thought it was in her best interests to live 50% of the time with her dad then I'd not have an issue, when we first separated I offered him the opportunity to do this, he refused as it didn't fit in with his lifestyle at the time. As it happens he's moved into a house with a woman and her 2 dc, who he's known for 4 months (they met on a dating website), if they had been in a stable relationship for 18+ months it would be a different matter. If my dd wasn't struggling with her mental health following a foster placement breakdown I'd also feel differently. There are lots of moving parts as to why I feel it's not in my dd's best interests. Even she said it's a lot to do with her feeling that she's missing out when the other children are there. These are people she's known for less than 4 months.

This isn't a pissing contest with her df either. I need to push back on him otherwise I'll be doing all the life admin for both families. There's nothing stopping him taking her shoe shopping, but instead asks her, to ask me to do it. He could have rung the school and paid for her trip, but instead gave dd the money to give to me.

If I paid her therapist full time (which I will) AND her hobby full time - I'd have to choose which other bills to stop paying, what would be best? My mortgage, food, gas, electricity? It's not because I don't want to, it's because I can't!

@Midlifemusings

don't see a 14 year old as an adult who needs to be taught a lesson that if you choose to spend time with the other parent, then I will do as little for you as possible. Is that really the lesson you want a 14 year old to learn - that she is responsible for the feelings of her parents and if she doesn't make choices that make her mom happy then mom will make sure there are consequences. That sets up a terrible pattern for future relationships. Feeling like your job is to always make decisions that keep your partner happy and that you owe them for anything they did for you - or else you deserve to be punished or consequnced?

Actually I agree entirely with this = that it isnt her job to make decisions to keep her parent or her partner happy. Which is why if she wants to she should go.

It isnt about saying that if you dont make a choice to make me happy you need to accept the consequences AT ALL. It is about saying I support your decision to move to your father and if you need me I am there but it isnt mine or your responsibility to step in if her father cant.

I actually think we agree in principle just not necessarily on the details of the horse riding. But if the OP cant afford it without CMS that she no longer gets - what are you suggesting they do

I know an awful lot of women who depend on the child's father's financial support during their time with their kids. You may think all those women are just like OPs ex and should be cut off and learn to do it all on their own but even the courts won't agree with you - they see both parents as having responsibilities
Yes exactly - they do. And they both need to step up. But actually what the OP is saying is that she is going to be cut off from HIS support because it is 50/50 and he will be keeping the money. So how on earth is this relevant here.

But then the OP needs to make it clear that it is not HER job to make sure the ex parents correctly either. That is isnt the womans job to step in and fix things for the man whether they are together or not.

I just dont see how that all fits in with what is happening here.

I agree I think she is misunderstanding as ell.

YOu cant choose which bills to pay - you should pay for what you can without the CMS support he used to give - maybe though agree rather than putting the CB to her on in a fund it goes toward thi.

And you cannot do the life admin for both families you need to push back on this

Oofff. I was with you until that one.

Thing is, no parent should be making her choose.

If OP doesn't have the money and dad is no longer going to pay because he wants 50/50 the OP can't magic money for horse riding out of thin air, it's an expensive hobby!

It's not about OP 'cutting it off' the money she uses to pay for this is being removed, purely due to the 50/50. Therefore dad has a choice, pay half, or continue the same amount of CMS to cover it still despite having 50/50. That's on him. If HE is that bothered about his DD he wants her 50:50 he should be bothered about how this stuff will continue equally as much as mum, but her hands are tied, short of getting a second job she can't fund something the money simply is no longer there for.

Dad needs to realise the positive consequences of him seeing her more, alongside the negative consequences and offset these somehow and have these discussions before it goes ahead.