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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

April 2022 - well we took you to Stately Homes

1000 replies

AttilaTheMeerkat · 17/04/2022 00:42

It’s April 2022 and the Stately Home is still open to all comers.

OP posts:
Thehouseofmarvels · 12/06/2022 08:10

@DFOD

We have tried to address the trauma with the NHS but he was put in some group therapy for the stabilization stay with people with non complex PTSD. They were talking about let's discuss ' the event'; suitable for people who were maybe in a car accident but not for him with repeated trauma. He dropped out as it was not helpful.

We are looking into private therapy so I'm helping gather any extra info that might be useful. We can't know what exactly his mother has but the suggestion of personality disorders is really helpful as it helps him to try to understand why he was treated in such a way. He felt bad and unlovable for a long time.

His father was a gambling addict but did not drink because he is a Pakistani Muslim and as a Muslim he never drank. His white British mother had an alcoholic father. His grandmother was a violent woman and brutalized his grandfather. His grandfather saw his best friend shot down as they were in spitfires. I found out recently doing family history that his grandfather had an aunt by marriage murdered on the London underground around the same time his friend died. This information appears to have been not passed down to anyone living. His grandmother was obsessed with appearances, begging family members for money as her children HAD to attend private school, and generally lived above her means.

Partner had a partner before me who was an alcoholic who hit him and lost her child to social services after he left. He managed to work on himself a lot so he was able to find a person who was from a stable background.

His sister who married a celebrity.. the celebrity is a well known alcoholic, supposedly on the wagon.

So essentially lots of alcohol involved but not in his childhood.

When asked, his mother denies any abuse happened, and when pressed might admit some came from their father.

As for the relationship with his father, three of the four siblings disowned their father when they were old enough to refuse every other weekend contact. They changed their names by deed poll as a sign to him. However he had planned to disown them anyway as they refused to behave as good Pakistani kids should. One received a marriage proposal from a first cousin aged 12 for example, but refused to ever marry him. He was a maths teacher and hated the fact none of his kids were good at maths. He used to force them to do extra maths in school holidays and made it clear constantly they were huge disappointments and beat them to re-enforce this. He also forced them to watch 18 rated horror movies from the age of five and would strangle them until they went limp as a punishment, or hit them with a wooden rod my partner says was over 5 foot long. He also decided my partner needed to understand the concept of suicide and how to make a noose aged 7. He forced my partner to make a noose which he put in a tree and my partner was supposed to kick away the bucket, only at the last minute he told my partner not to. My partner's mother encouraged him and egged him on to be as violent as possible towards the children as she felt they deserved it. I am surprised they all survived as on one occasion he decided one of the kids needed to die and the child only survived because another beat him over the head with a hockey stick. I think he may have claimed it as an honour killing if he had succeeded.

One child, who married the celebrity did stay in contact. She alone has one child aged 9. Goodness knows what she tells her kid about why they have never met their mother's family apart from seeing her grandparents on a handful of occasions. From what I see online and on partner's sister's social media I strongly suspect this kid does not see her famous father anymore. He has started a new family, so no contact with new half sibling potentially. The kid also has an older half sibling and I'm not sure she sees her either. It looks like the child is largely isolated from any family contact. We certainly never expect to meet her or for her to meet any future children who will be her cousins.

We are currently trying to get me partner in the best mental shape for us to have a stable happy family life. We are both looking into how to best process the trauma.

The good news is this week he has felt the best he has in ages and feels like something has shifted. We just need to find the right therapist to continue the progress.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 12/06/2022 08:23

Sicario

FlowersCakeWine. Am only sorry they are but virtual. xxx

You have a safe place here.

So sorry also to read that you are in the eye of the hurricane re your toxic sister.
Death and bereavement do send these people into another orbit of self, have seen that for myself at first hand. Its truly an unedifying spectacle.

In my MILs case it was a combination of making it all about her (there are MANY poor examples of behaviour re his short illness and death. One thing she did was phone my H at his workplace repeatedly (as if he had nothing else better to do) apparently agonising over what colour and size lettering to place on his headstone. Postscript; she's never visited his gravesite since) She remains in the habit of rewriting their relationship history (aka toxic dance of codependency) to suit her own ends. Her late H was also her footsoldier who wanted to do as he is told.

My best wishes to you all in this stately pile of a home.

OP posts:
Chevyimpala67 · 12/06/2022 08:43

Thehouseofmarvels · 12/06/2022 08:10

@DFOD

We have tried to address the trauma with the NHS but he was put in some group therapy for the stabilization stay with people with non complex PTSD. They were talking about let's discuss ' the event'; suitable for people who were maybe in a car accident but not for him with repeated trauma. He dropped out as it was not helpful.

We are looking into private therapy so I'm helping gather any extra info that might be useful. We can't know what exactly his mother has but the suggestion of personality disorders is really helpful as it helps him to try to understand why he was treated in such a way. He felt bad and unlovable for a long time.

His father was a gambling addict but did not drink because he is a Pakistani Muslim and as a Muslim he never drank. His white British mother had an alcoholic father. His grandmother was a violent woman and brutalized his grandfather. His grandfather saw his best friend shot down as they were in spitfires. I found out recently doing family history that his grandfather had an aunt by marriage murdered on the London underground around the same time his friend died. This information appears to have been not passed down to anyone living. His grandmother was obsessed with appearances, begging family members for money as her children HAD to attend private school, and generally lived above her means.

Partner had a partner before me who was an alcoholic who hit him and lost her child to social services after he left. He managed to work on himself a lot so he was able to find a person who was from a stable background.

His sister who married a celebrity.. the celebrity is a well known alcoholic, supposedly on the wagon.

So essentially lots of alcohol involved but not in his childhood.

When asked, his mother denies any abuse happened, and when pressed might admit some came from their father.

As for the relationship with his father, three of the four siblings disowned their father when they were old enough to refuse every other weekend contact. They changed their names by deed poll as a sign to him. However he had planned to disown them anyway as they refused to behave as good Pakistani kids should. One received a marriage proposal from a first cousin aged 12 for example, but refused to ever marry him. He was a maths teacher and hated the fact none of his kids were good at maths. He used to force them to do extra maths in school holidays and made it clear constantly they were huge disappointments and beat them to re-enforce this. He also forced them to watch 18 rated horror movies from the age of five and would strangle them until they went limp as a punishment, or hit them with a wooden rod my partner says was over 5 foot long. He also decided my partner needed to understand the concept of suicide and how to make a noose aged 7. He forced my partner to make a noose which he put in a tree and my partner was supposed to kick away the bucket, only at the last minute he told my partner not to. My partner's mother encouraged him and egged him on to be as violent as possible towards the children as she felt they deserved it. I am surprised they all survived as on one occasion he decided one of the kids needed to die and the child only survived because another beat him over the head with a hockey stick. I think he may have claimed it as an honour killing if he had succeeded.

One child, who married the celebrity did stay in contact. She alone has one child aged 9. Goodness knows what she tells her kid about why they have never met their mother's family apart from seeing her grandparents on a handful of occasions. From what I see online and on partner's sister's social media I strongly suspect this kid does not see her famous father anymore. He has started a new family, so no contact with new half sibling potentially. The kid also has an older half sibling and I'm not sure she sees her either. It looks like the child is largely isolated from any family contact. We certainly never expect to meet her or for her to meet any future children who will be her cousins.

We are currently trying to get me partner in the best mental shape for us to have a stable happy family life. We are both looking into how to best process the trauma.

The good news is this week he has felt the best he has in ages and feels like something has shifted. We just need to find the right therapist to continue the progress.

Look into RTM therapy

DFOD · 12/06/2022 08:56

Thehouseofmarvels · 12/06/2022 08:10

@DFOD

We have tried to address the trauma with the NHS but he was put in some group therapy for the stabilization stay with people with non complex PTSD. They were talking about let's discuss ' the event'; suitable for people who were maybe in a car accident but not for him with repeated trauma. He dropped out as it was not helpful.

We are looking into private therapy so I'm helping gather any extra info that might be useful. We can't know what exactly his mother has but the suggestion of personality disorders is really helpful as it helps him to try to understand why he was treated in such a way. He felt bad and unlovable for a long time.

His father was a gambling addict but did not drink because he is a Pakistani Muslim and as a Muslim he never drank. His white British mother had an alcoholic father. His grandmother was a violent woman and brutalized his grandfather. His grandfather saw his best friend shot down as they were in spitfires. I found out recently doing family history that his grandfather had an aunt by marriage murdered on the London underground around the same time his friend died. This information appears to have been not passed down to anyone living. His grandmother was obsessed with appearances, begging family members for money as her children HAD to attend private school, and generally lived above her means.

Partner had a partner before me who was an alcoholic who hit him and lost her child to social services after he left. He managed to work on himself a lot so he was able to find a person who was from a stable background.

His sister who married a celebrity.. the celebrity is a well known alcoholic, supposedly on the wagon.

So essentially lots of alcohol involved but not in his childhood.

When asked, his mother denies any abuse happened, and when pressed might admit some came from their father.

As for the relationship with his father, three of the four siblings disowned their father when they were old enough to refuse every other weekend contact. They changed their names by deed poll as a sign to him. However he had planned to disown them anyway as they refused to behave as good Pakistani kids should. One received a marriage proposal from a first cousin aged 12 for example, but refused to ever marry him. He was a maths teacher and hated the fact none of his kids were good at maths. He used to force them to do extra maths in school holidays and made it clear constantly they were huge disappointments and beat them to re-enforce this. He also forced them to watch 18 rated horror movies from the age of five and would strangle them until they went limp as a punishment, or hit them with a wooden rod my partner says was over 5 foot long. He also decided my partner needed to understand the concept of suicide and how to make a noose aged 7. He forced my partner to make a noose which he put in a tree and my partner was supposed to kick away the bucket, only at the last minute he told my partner not to. My partner's mother encouraged him and egged him on to be as violent as possible towards the children as she felt they deserved it. I am surprised they all survived as on one occasion he decided one of the kids needed to die and the child only survived because another beat him over the head with a hockey stick. I think he may have claimed it as an honour killing if he had succeeded.

One child, who married the celebrity did stay in contact. She alone has one child aged 9. Goodness knows what she tells her kid about why they have never met their mother's family apart from seeing her grandparents on a handful of occasions. From what I see online and on partner's sister's social media I strongly suspect this kid does not see her famous father anymore. He has started a new family, so no contact with new half sibling potentially. The kid also has an older half sibling and I'm not sure she sees her either. It looks like the child is largely isolated from any family contact. We certainly never expect to meet her or for her to meet any future children who will be her cousins.

We are currently trying to get me partner in the best mental shape for us to have a stable happy family life. We are both looking into how to best process the trauma.

The good news is this week he has felt the best he has in ages and feels like something has shifted. We just need to find the right therapist to continue the progress.

Ah of course addiction in the mix as well. Sounds like lots of intergenerational trauma on the maternal side and severe abuse / psychopathic behaviours on the paternal side. Truly shocking. Do you know anything about the DF own family background or childhood experience?

www.pete-walker.com/

There are some excellent free resources on the above for cPTSD.

Also Toxic Parents by Susan Foward helped me. There are also two other programmes that were useful which I can link to.

What are your DPs main symptoms and what impact has this had on his life and relationships?

DFOD · 12/06/2022 09:00

adultchildren.org/

napac.org.uk/

EmiliaFoxtrot · 12/06/2022 09:06

Hi friends. Long time lurker on these stately homes threads and I can relate to so much of what you're saying - some of your stories have brought me to tears. You're all very strong. Wondering if I might join.

I'm pretty sure my DM is a narcissist- the usual perfect gleaming reputation in public whilst emotionally abusing me at home as a child. My Dsis was and still is the golden child. One of the things I struggle with the most is the outright denial of major life events that defined my life. Some of the worst things she's done to me I brought up to discuss after therapy sessions, only for her to laugh and tell me "that NEVER happened - you have such an imagination!" Sometimes I sit here stunned questioning myself! But I know those things happened. She expressed genuine shock when I married my DH and commented "Wow, you're going to have to work hard not to lose this one" (she thinks he's amazing, which he is). Smashed my self confidence into smithereens again and again as a teenager, pitting me against my dsis and her friend's children. Told me she wished I had never been born and I ruined her life. My DF is an enabler who had a bad childhood himself.

Something very interesting I've noticed in this thread is the lack of ability to make deep friendships and sustain them. I also struggled with this a lot, never believing I'm remotely likeable at all. The friends I have I can't really open up to.... On a few occasions Ive tested the waters with "I struggle in my relationship with DM..." only to be met with comments such as "Your mother might genuinely be the kindest and sweetest woman I've ever met!" So instantly I shut down. At the moment I'm working on stopping the anger and hatred I've developed towards her. When my bitterness shows in social situations, she LOVES it because she can play the innocent mother role in front of people. Sigh.... solidarity to you all!

Thehouseofmarvels · 12/06/2022 09:48

@DFOD I have not heard of RTM therapy but will look into it. I will use the links you have sent as part of my research.

Thank you for your kind help. I found toxic parents helpful and will try to encourage him to read it. He read a good chunk of ' The body keeps the score' but struggled with it triggering him.

He does not know much about his father's family. They lived in Pakistan and America. They visited a few times and one of them, an aunt or female cousin touched him inappropriately. He has said that his father was abused as a child but I don't know how. He has no contact with them. After his cousin was turned down for marriage he abused the sister.

His mother started telling him as a teen that her sister was horrible and he last saw her aged 17. His mother told him not to speak to his aunt. His mother told his aunt he disliked her. We think this was so he could not disclose the abuse. He met his gran 3 times, and one of those was a funeral. His aunt could not have kids but had a nice husband. He was injured in a burglary and died later on of a brain aneurysm linked to being hit on the head. My partner liked his uncle and his uncle's family but they all died, his uncle's brother died in a car accident and their mother of natural causes. The aunt remarried a wealthy widower and his mother was very jealous of her lifestyle. His maternal grandfather and great grandfather died shortly before he was born and were reportedly ok despite his grandad drinking. Sadly all the decent people in his life died.

His mother has one cousin who she only met a few times and who my partner never met. He only knows she exists because the cousin was left a family portrait in the grans will. His mum took it and bitched about the cousin to him when told to give it back. She deliberately caused 4000 pounds of damage to the painting because she was forced to give it back. It didn't even belong to her mother, it was the cousins father's property and had been borrowed. She was lucky the cousin did not go to the police. She stopped having contact with the cousins parents decades before because they would not help her financially as they had sometimes helped her mother.

I downloaded the will because I suspected my partner was a beneficiary because his mother would not let him see the will. This was correct.

I contacted the cousin who is named in the will, I found her on Facebook. I asked her to have a relationship with my partner. She is best friends with the estranged aunt. They have been working on an email relationship and will hopefully meet over the summer.

What my partner's uncle with downs syndrome dies the grans house gets sold. It was his mother's idea for her to live there, but when gran died she rented it out. He is in the will, and the aunt and a solicitor can give the money from the house to any descendent or descendents of the gran that they feel are deserving of money. His mother gets no say as she refused to help with probate and so could not become a trustee.

My partner has OCD, depression and complex post traumatic stress disorder. He had relationship s of only a year or two until he met his ex. He stayed 3 and a half years because she had a child and was obviously an inadequate parent and he wanted to protect the child but the kid was witnessing her hit him.

He has a film degree and has done some acting with various odd jobs but we hope if he can get better he could do some drama teaching. I teach art. He is kind, creative and outgoing.

We have been together five years and he has been working very hard on processing trauma but we have only known he had complex PTSD for just over a year. He had lots of treatment for OCD. I found out about complex PTSD from Mumsnet and you tube and a psychiatrist confirmed it.

Hence why I am using Mumsnet to help now as the internet has been a fantastic tool in working out how to best deal with his trauma.

We want to end the intergenerational trauma. So we are trying to get him as well as possible before having a baby.

Sicario · 12/06/2022 09:58

You're not going to believe this (except you are of course). Toxic sister got on a plane and fucked off within 24 hours of the mother dying. Her husband is clearing our mothers house and no doubt shredding all the evidence (they have been living our of her bank account for years).

It took them 2 days to answer my direct question of whether they'd had me removed as my mother's executor. Well of course they had. She and BIL have full control like the leeches they are.

So I expect the dick-head bullshitter is having a very interesting time going through everything. Some deeply personal stuff in her house a lot of it belonging to me.

Toxic sister was screaming histrionics at me down the phone from Florida, while my BIL is in hiding as he wouldn't have the guts to speak to me. Of course it was all denials and lies from both of them, and still trying to send chinese whispers messages via my kids.

So I told her to go fuck herself, ended the call, and I think that will probably be that.

ChairPose9to5 · 12/06/2022 10:26

Wow, they have screwed you financially but are screaming at you. You are right, it's unbelievable but yet believable 😪

Would you be able to go to the house, or takeva friend with you?

Thehouseofmarvels · 12/06/2022 10:29

@Sicario

I am so sorry that this is happening to you.

Sicario · 12/06/2022 20:24

Update - toxic sister and BIL have had ALL the grandchildren removed from the will. Also have control over disabled brother's finances, and PIO over the dead mother's bank account. All done secretively. Trying to get information has been like pulling teeth.

ChairPose9to5 · 12/06/2022 21:01

Wow, is it a lot of money? Can you afford to leave them to it. It is still so shocking and hurtful though, when family meet yr low expectations of them and have no shame. How can they think removing the grandchildren from a grandparent's will looks good ?! Scarlet for them.

I have already made the decision to let my brother do all their care, clear their house, organise funrrals, choose hymns and inherit whatever is there.
I need to stay sane.

Chevyimpala67 · 12/06/2022 21:10

Sicario · 12/06/2022 20:24

Update - toxic sister and BIL have had ALL the grandchildren removed from the will. Also have control over disabled brother's finances, and PIO over the dead mother's bank account. All done secretively. Trying to get information has been like pulling teeth.

Wow.
What a pair.
All gc? Do they have dc/gc?
Is it a large estate?
It's very easy for me to say but the money won't make them happy.
If they do have dc/gc then they are teaching them a great lesson how to treat them in the future...

I will not fall out with my siblings re: mums will. They can have the lot (not that there will be that much...)

My sister and I are executors. That'll be fun.

Thehouseofmarvels · 12/06/2022 21:11

@Sicario does that include their own children or do they not have any ?

Sicario · 13/06/2022 09:12

There are 10 grandkids, of which they have 2. I couldn't give a flying fuck about the money. I've always earned my own. Toxic sister and BIL have totally excelled themselves. The text messages from my sister remind me of just how awful a person she is and why I went NC in the first place.

Chevyimpala67 · 13/06/2022 10:19

Sicario · 13/06/2022 09:12

There are 10 grandkids, of which they have 2. I couldn't give a flying fuck about the money. I've always earned my own. Toxic sister and BIL have totally excelled themselves. The text messages from my sister remind me of just how awful a person she is and why I went NC in the first place.

That's a great attitude to have imo

Fuck em

As I said to you, the money may bring them many things, but it won't be happiness

DFOD · 13/06/2022 11:23

It’s really about strategically thinking about whether it’s worth getting drawn into a battle which won’t be fair or pleasant or swift for principles or money.

Sometimes it’s very sensible to drop the rope and walk away because these types with tie you in knots - you just have to be confident that you have your own agency and are making this decision to maintain your own mental health in the long and the short term and that any wrangling with them will prolong the day you are free from the fully. Eyes on the prize.

It isn’t an easy thing to pull off. Take it easy if you can.

DFOD · 13/06/2022 11:24

How much involvement with your DSis do you need? Just to confirm funeral arrangements? Can you eyeball a date when you can block and delete her number?

Sicario · 13/06/2022 14:37

I don't have to have anything to do with either of them thank god. Absolutely no intention of going to the funeral. I'm staying well out of it.

Chevyimpala67 · 13/06/2022 14:42

Sicario · 13/06/2022 14:37

I don't have to have anything to do with either of them thank god. Absolutely no intention of going to the funeral. I'm staying well out of it.

Sensible.
I'm so sorry this is happening x

ChairPose9to5 · 13/06/2022 23:58

Hi folks, I know this isn't life or death but my mother sent me this whatsapp

''We are sad for you that you are so unhappy. You are in are hearts. Don't bother to reply.''

That was in response to a whatsapp message that had been at the tail end of our conversation last week when she suggested coffee but then postponed it when I had a boundary too. She hadn't even bothered to read it. But then earlier today she read it and sent that gem of a reply above.

It's such a drama bait. I nearly responded but I managed to stop myself. Forwarded it to my brother though. He thinks mum is so perfect.

I'm not unhappy. But sure what's one more label to add to the list.

Paranoid
Sensitive
Angry
Looking like death warmed up (yeh, really)
Detached from reality
Entitled
And now.............. unhappy.

But I'm in her heart.

Chevyimpala67 · 14/06/2022 06:21

ChairPose9to5 · 13/06/2022 23:58

Hi folks, I know this isn't life or death but my mother sent me this whatsapp

''We are sad for you that you are so unhappy. You are in are hearts. Don't bother to reply.''

That was in response to a whatsapp message that had been at the tail end of our conversation last week when she suggested coffee but then postponed it when I had a boundary too. She hadn't even bothered to read it. But then earlier today she read it and sent that gem of a reply above.

It's such a drama bait. I nearly responded but I managed to stop myself. Forwarded it to my brother though. He thinks mum is so perfect.

I'm not unhappy. But sure what's one more label to add to the list.

Paranoid
Sensitive
Angry
Looking like death warmed up (yeh, really)
Detached from reality
Entitled
And now.............. unhappy.

But I'm in her heart.

Are you ready to block and delete her number?

Sicario · 14/06/2022 10:10

@ChairPose9to5 - "drama bait" is such a brilliant description. That text message is loaded with manipulative bullshit. The "you are in our hearts" followed by "don't bother" is straight out of the narc handbook.

No matter how we protect ourselves it is still very hurtful.

I've had a bunch of similarly shitty text messages from my toxic sister over the last however many days, so I know how upsetting it us.

I have my mantra firmly on repeat: STAY AWAY FROM TOXIC PEOPLE.

ChairPose9to5 · 14/06/2022 10:16

I have blocked her now.

I am 52, was 50 when she told me i looked like death warmed up. That comment really reminds me of how she can say anything to me, anything at all, but i am abusive if i ask her why she did something id asked her twice not to do. Still wouldnt get an answer of course.

I dont think i looked like death warmed up. I looked like a 50 year old caught qt the door in her dressing gown wearin no make up, hair dishevelled.

But i feel it's like my ageing disgusts her but hers is kind of noble. Dykwim?

DFOD · 14/06/2022 10:18

Sicario · 14/06/2022 10:10

@ChairPose9to5 - "drama bait" is such a brilliant description. That text message is loaded with manipulative bullshit. The "you are in our hearts" followed by "don't bother" is straight out of the narc handbook.

No matter how we protect ourselves it is still very hurtful.

I've had a bunch of similarly shitty text messages from my toxic sister over the last however many days, so I know how upsetting it us.

I have my mantra firmly on repeat: STAY AWAY FROM TOXIC PEOPLE.

Yes and especially when you are understandably feeling vulnerable and raw.

Need to emotionally protect yourself with distance and turning your back and it’s much easier not to get triggered and drawn in if you don’t see or of hear any of their antics.

Phrase I learned on here - don’t let them draw you back into punching distance. Another one - never wrestle with a pig - you both get dirty but the pig loves it.

These types are frothing at the mouth desperate to provoke and escalate your anger energy / reaction which they get a kick out of …. don’t feed them.

Hope you can distract yourself and distance yourself at this hugely emotionally volatile time.

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