April 2022 - well we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

It’s April 2022 and the Stately Home is still open to all comers.

@Goosegoosedick Indeed, they make it all about them, how much they're suffering, and how it's your fault because they're not responsible for anything and it's your job to fix them 🙄I'm sorry you have to deal with all this shit but I hope your eyes being opened wide is helping you deal with your (misplaced) guilt.

@TomAllenWife Good advice as always from @AttilaTheMeerkat. I would just add that there are many people on this board who have lived with these bitches "mothers" all their lives but have only recently realised how much they have been abused, so it's understandable your DP hasn't understood the effect your mother has had on you and what will happen if he is supportive of her (she will try to divide and conquer). But it's really important for you that he learns about narcissism and supports you 100%, you've had enough to deal with and need to trust him completely on this.

Why are you not NC with your mother? For me it I think it was largely misplaced guilt and a sense of obligation, also misplaced. I wish I had dumped the bitch decades ago. After a year of NC I can see my life would have been far more peaceful.

Thank you @Escapingafter50years and @AttilaTheMeerkat

I don't know why we send cards, this year she messaged me saying 'it would've been nice for you to call'

My best friend said 'who would it have been nice for, cos it sure as fuck wouldn't have been nice for you' 😂😂

I feel sorry for her, she's been taken care of her whole life and just expects it.
I know she would rinse DP and that's why I am keeping them apart.

He paid for us all to stay in a hotel last year and she didn't even buy a round of drinks

I don't think he understands but he does respect my position and having spoken to my friends I think he appreciates there's a lot he doesn't know / see

@Escapingafter50years your Mum sounds financially exploitative, has it always been this way? Really sorry she couldn't be there for you.

I really think you should go NC and defo not more exposing your children to that.
There seems to be very little in it for you and you don't want to be responsible for taking care for her. Enjoy your life and do not feel guilty.

A question to the group: can abusers / narcissists ever change / ever reform / ever take on board the damage they have done?

"A question to the group: can abusers / narcissists ever change / ever reform / ever take on board the damage they have done?"

No, well not in my experience of them anyway. I've also had the misfortune to work with one; she was (and all too likely remains) an lazy self centered bully who I was glad to see the back of. On reading further about narcissistic people I realised this was how she behaved too.

To my mind also they can get worse with age because any authority figures they have actually liked (well feared really) have died off.

@TomAllenWife your mum is definitely financially exploitative. Keep your other half well away. And don't let the divide and rule crap start. United front, at all times. The narcs are REALLY good at targeting the ones that see as a “soft touch”. I'm very LC with my toxic mother in law. To try and get her own way last Xmas she played the poor old lady trick with me - like a dick I started to engage with it and then caught myself in the nick of time. The nice shit pretty quickly turned into normal Hag shit. They don't change.

@AttilaTheMeerkat you are so right, they do not improve with age. More entitled than ever as their friends - if they actually have any - and family die off, or they’ve alienated everyone. The dreaded meal with the Hag as sister in law in a couple of weeks has fallen on deaf ears - none of her family responded. Unsurprisingly.

@failinghard NEVER. They might pretend if they want something.

No they don't change. This is who they are. If anything they get worse as they become more bitter and twisted with age (and rage).

I do wonder about my toxic sister and whether her grown-up kids will go LC/NC with her. They have both chosen to live abroad, and I know for a fact that one of her son-in-laws can't stand her (because he told me).

@Sicario yep, the toxics are totally opposite to fine wine they do NOT improve with age. It’s interesting that your sister’s son in law has spotted it. What’s his line on her?

Here in Monkey Towers, we’ve had three (needlessly) hysterical phone calls from The Hag this morning about sister in law and nephews coming down next weekend.

Hag doesn’t “understand” what’s happening. There is nothing for her to understand or do. I have sorted it all out. There is an apartment for SIL and nephews. There is a meal booked. Hag doesn’t need to do anything but come to the Fucking meal and try and be as pleasant as she can manage. She will be on best behaviour sucking up the attention, but absolutely vile before hand.

But no, let’s phone Mr Monkey constantly getting angrier and angrier. Then as she refuses to listen to the simple information and gets angrier (WHY?) she then gets Slave Son to ring Mr Monkey.

All of this whilst the two of us are working at home.

And the classic line.

”oh I don’t think I can be bothered.”

This from the woman who complains about being lonely, never seeing anyone and not seeing her grandchildren.

I’ll be phoning the restaurant later to ensure that they hook up some kind of drip of Sauvignon Blanc next to my chair.

When that meal is done, I won’t see her again until Xmas.

My life is infinitely better since working out she’s a toxic coercive narcissist and empowering myself and Mr Monkey to stand up to her. I’m now out of the loop - long gone are the days of trying to make her life better with meals, gifts, attention.

Absolutely pointless. These people are not normal.

It’s about managing these people.

You might need to reset your boundaries as she is still having impact.

Can you divert all her calls (and if the brother) to VM in working hours?

Tell her you are doing this and that you will listen and respond if necessary at 8pm for instance. Then I would be fading it to once a week.

Of course she will kick off - but it’s like weathering a storm - put in more distance and protection and don’t react. She will soon get used to the new regime like she has with you.

No need for her to be yanking your chain throughout the day, preoccupying your head space and triggering negative thoughts and emotions.

Hello everyone - I am/was MrsBobDylan but did a big flounce and deregistered (and regretted loosing my name

Anyhow, I am back with a no contact update. I have done 10 months of ignoring the Bogeymum and life is so much better.

I have three siblings and one has also gone nc and we have been building a lovely mini family relationship.

Between us we have gone low contact or nc with the rest of our extended family.

I have done Xmas, Mothers Day, Easter and Bogeymum's birthday all with nada from me.

Me and sibling bumped into her in a large shop a couple of months ago and I ran off and hid in an empty changing room. A Sales Assistant found me weeping in a corner and must have been truly perplexed to hear I was frighted of a woman in her 70s with a walking stick

I have nightmare most nights but I think that is my brain trying to work through some of the childhood abuse. I think I have some PTSD because when I am triggered by something and think of her, my thoughts have a smell and a gloopy texture. Sounds bloody weird but I don't know how to describe it!

I don't miss her and have no regrets except not doing it sooner.

Hang on in there @Minimalme - going NC is a long road it takes a very long time to recover from the abuse.

@DFOD you’re absolutely right on the chain yanking. We’ve done so well on changing our behaviour with her - she’ll never change OBVIOUSLY (as if!). We had the witch living with us for 10 weeks in all over the past three years. HIDEOUS. Never again. Out of that dreadful situation, I’ve had therapy and gone LC. My partner had a horrible childhood of physical and psychological abuse, but has now finally - he was resistant because of the fear of what it would bring up - had therapy for complex PTSD. He's miles better with a ton of boundaries. Loads of support here to get us to a place of not responding to her “needs”. She doesn't listen to reason so 8pm would be unfathomable to her - she's like a horrible toddler - or she would expect that call every night. Slave Son is still in the place of being controlled, but my partner has done so much to get to a better place, Including limiting calls. She can frankly fuck right off and deserves the level of contact she gets. Personally, i’d go NC if she was my l
mother. Horrible woman. It is so hard to stand firm, but SO worth it.

@Minimalme so good to see you here and brilliant news on the no contact with Bogeymum. It's so worth it, isn't it? Such a visceral reaction says it all. Mr Monkey has complex PTSD - I think that's when the trauma isn't a one-off, but continuous - and therapy has helped immeasurably. He hasn't had a nightmare in months. It's been painful, but worth it. People who've not had an abusive childhood don't get it or very few do. I'm so happy for you. Don't regret not doing it sooner. That kind of childhood is like brainwashing and children are conditioned to think it's normal or not as bad as others or they'll get people into trouble if they talk about it. The abusers are really clever at shifting the responsibility. The fucKers! So glad for you. Xxx

Thank you @Sicario and @MonkeyfromManchester I so appreciate the support - it makes a huge difference knowing that others are also fighting the good fight.

Hoping you all won’t mind another member here. Have now gone NC with my mum. It was never the best relationship but my grandfather died in October and she completely flipped on me. Gave me the silent treatment because I didn’t see her for one day (I was working) then just caused chaos from then on.

it’s sounding like she’s told a huge pack of lies to the rest of the family so I am now on my own with my two Ds’s. Life is calm and peaceful though but how to navigate her having a relationship with my DS’s will be difficult. They aren’t old enough to know the truth but are old enough to realise they haven’t seen her for a while so any help with that would be appreciated.

@ThisIsNotThePostYourLookingFor Why do you think your children should have a relationship with someone who has treated you so badly? I'm only NC with my bitch "mother" in the last year, wish I'd done it decades before. My children are adults now but they saw her behaviour, she threw tantrums in my house, silent treatment for perceived slights, criticism of my parenting, she caused such stress in our lives. Looking back I wish so much I hadn't let them be exposed to her. I am trying to learn to forgive myself for not knowing I had been abused all my life by her.

With people like this, they will create havoc in your life, punish you for nothing (silent treatment), then act like the victim. Their entire focus is on evading responsibility for the major upsets they create rather than try to resolve difficulties in their relationships.

I would explain that Grandma seems to have a problem with being kind to you and you need to keep yourself safe from anyone who doesn't treat you with respect. It is not a good lesson in life for your children to see that someone can treat you like shit just because you're related to them.

@Escapingafter50years i don’t honestly know. She’s not a bad grandmother and I know at some point she’ll slip up and my DS’s will see her true colours. Maybe I’m hoping that will stop me being the ‘bad guy’ with even more people but the second I hear or see anything unacceptable will be her own hanging rope.

I’m also hoping that as my DS’s are getting older they will have more of a social life so seeing her will become even more limited until she’s quietly left out of our life’s.

reading all the stories on here are forgive me but amazing to realise how common this is and how many others don’t have the perfect family dynamic either.

Hi ThisIsNotThePostYourLookingFor

Why do you say she is not a bad grandmother to your kids?. That is probably and most likely your own FOG (fear, obligation and guilt) talking. If this is the case I would look at the Out of the FOG website. Her silent treatment towards you was in itself an example of emotional abuse. I would also think she has not fundamentally changed either since your own childhood, she's still very much the same as she ever was. I guess no-one ever bothered to show you that the only acceptable level of abuse in any relationship is NONE.

As Escapingafter50years correctly surmises in her comment it is indeed not a good lesson in life for your children to see that someone can treat you like shit just because you're related to them.

If a parent or relative is too toxic/abusive/batshit etc for YOU to deal with, its the SAME deal for your kids too. She will also do similar damage to them as she has done to you and in front of your very eyes. It's your job to protect them from such malign influences like your mother. She does not deserve to see any of you given how she has treated you as her daughter. Would you have tolerated this from a friend, no you would not have done. Your mother is no different.

@AttilaTheMeerkat

your absolutely right and I can’t even reply with any excuse or reasoning. I most definitely have the FOG and likely in the fear stage, hopefully that will pass soon.

I'm pathetic in hoping she might change for her grandchildren although as you say she has not changed towards me since childhood. She’s very toxic and entitled and will end up very bitter and alone. I just need to become braver in cutting her out completely of every aspect of my life.

She will not change for her grandchildren and will treat them similarly as to how you as her DD have been treated.

Let go of any and all hopes here she will change. This also keeps you trapped. You will also need to grieve for the relationship you should have had with your mother rather than the one you actually got.

I've namechanged as this is outing. I have posted before.

It was my birthday the other week. We went to my parents yesterday and I was given a mosaic craft kit because "you are crafty and what do you get the person who has everything" and £80. My mother knows I sew clothes, and have no interest in other craft. She does just enough to make the point that she has no real interest in what I do.

My dad cooked a curry for us all. I cannot eat garlic or onion, I can't tolerate it and I swell up painfully like a trapped wind balloon. He and my mother know this. I've told them repeatedly how painful it is. I've refused to eat food they have made in the past that "only" had some garlic or onion in. They know i can't eat a lot of prepare sauces and spice mixes because of this and that it is inconvenient but better for me not to have it. My dad told me he had cooked a portion for me separately with no onion or garlic. I ate some, he told me that he made the sauce with "just a bit" of the curry paste and a chicken stock cube. I'm swollen and sore today. I know they don't take this seriously, that they think its the flavour. It's not.

And we told them we have had an offer accepted on a house. My mum asked if I'd told my sister, when I said not yet, she said "you should phone her now" I asked "do mean now, in this house?" And she replied yes.

I did, privately. But inside I cracked a little. The combination of not really being listened to, and this... insistence on my mum being in control of something that she has no input in just made me feel 15 again. Lack of privacy, lack of agency, having no control over food that makes me unwell... DH told me it isn't a big deal. I know it sounds incredibly small and petty, but it cracked me a little.

I know I'm not the subject of physical abuse. I know that in comparison to how my mother has behaved in the past, this isn't the same. But oh man, it was a big flashback and a reminder that she just doesn't stop trying to overly involve herself.

I need to get this out so I can get over it.

Oh I hear you @Spotchnot it hurts, it's not the height of cruelty as your Dh says, but it's just ... see me, see me, see me or what are we doing here. Playing the part of daughter? Playing the part of mother.
Argh

Every year I get a victoria sponge for my birthday. Every year I am rude and say I prefer literary Every other type cake. Carrot. Coffee. Lemon. Chocolate. Banana. The one cake I cant be bothered with is a victoria sponge!

Ps I namechange all the time so paranoid one of my many million cousins will identify my posts.

@ThisIsNotThePostYourLookingFor sorry to hear about your mum. Hard as it may seem, going very low contact or no contact with your mother will make it easier. Abusers do not improve with age, and there's always the danger that she will weaponise your kids. That's what they do - never mind any damage to anyone else, it is ALL about them.

And here she is, The Hag (toxic MIL) is ringing. Mr Monkey is emailing friends and now does not jump to answer her calls. She hates that—all power to him.

Spotchnot

Never see your parents again. Its not possible to have a relationship with people like they are. With you out of the picture hopefully they and your sister will further turn against each other.

They went onto further mistreat you within the confines of their home turf and got a rise out of having complete power and control. They have not changed fundamentally since your own childhood. Their behaviour was all deliberate down to the food they served you and was all designed to undermine you as a person. You have been further conditioned to do as you are told by them so readily complied.

I would bin or otherwise now dispose of the items they gave you, do not give this any more power. I would also donate the £80 to a charity of your choice and one they would never want to support.

And to Spotchnot's DH - IT IS A BIG DEAL!!!. You have likely come from a nice and importantly too an emotionally healthy family unit. Your wife here has not been so lucky. Do not do your part here in boat rocking (enablers mantra).

@Spotchnot , I'm so sorry this is the way your parents treat you this way. Their wishes clearly override your needs and your wishes. It is always ALL about them.

Mr Monkey finished his emails and Twitter rants and rang Hag back. He does not ring her back every time she calls or rings her everyday. He's taken control and moved the goalposts. My toxic mother-in-law hates it.

So, the lovely sister-in-law and the grandsons she never sees - she never rings them or sees them. They are expected to ring her and see her. They are teenagers with their own lives and live two hundred miles away. But, of course, she can't compute this.

Sister-in-law wants to see her when she arrives - fair enough, although fuck knows why.

“Well, they can't come her as my flat is a mess” (it’s a slum)

I'd agreed that SIL and nephews can come here before they check into their accommodation.

I will be out as my friend has pre-planned “an emergency” with me. Lol.

Intake of breath and a disappointed “oh” from The Hag as she’s crossing the Bitch Daughter In Law’s (me) doorstep. Cheeky fucking which. I'm making a HUGE compromise, even if I won't actually be here.

I've given Mr Monkey strict instructions that the door to our newly decorated spare room with a new bed stays firmly closed, so the fucking bitch gets no entitled ideas about moving here (which she would love, especially as she imagines me moving out)

Of course, she whined about seeing no one and being lonely. Mr Monkey no longer joins the pity party and briskly says “well, you could meet with friends or join groups”
Grumbling on phone.
Further briskness from MM: “well, I've said what you can do, you don't want to, so that's the end of this discussion.”

She hates the new assertive LC son.

Now planning what sort of emergency with friend.

Gem from MM the other night.

He actually ran to his dad once as a kid and said:

“Mum didn't hit me at all today”

Increasingly realised that his dad was a good dad, but just let her behave as she wanted.

VILE.