Why would a woman go to a refuge for no reason?

[Bookworm20]

In my mind they wouldn't, right?

DP has a family friend, whose wife recently suddenly left and went to a refuge, with their small dc. DPs entire family, who have known this man since he was a child, are maintaining that he has done nothing wrong and in fact he is the victim here. That she was abusive to him, as that is what he is telling everyone.

A case has since gone to court and the man now has supervised contact with his dc.

It came up yesterday again in conversation and I again said, look we dont know all the details, but I can't imagine a woman leaving her comfortable house with her small dc for no reason what so ever or because she was the abusive one.
DP is saying his(this mans) family are now saying the wife is mentally unstable and thats the reason. They are refusing to think that this man could possibly be in any way responsible and although none of my business, I find it a bit sick that they are all 'poor him, he doesn't deserve this', 'poor him, he is so upset by it all'.

I have only met this couple on 2 occasions, though DP knows them very well. On both occasions, she did not seem mentally unwell, she was quiet and quite shy and very introverted. He was loud, brash and quite honestly the first time I met him I did think what an entitled little twat he seemed. Both occasions he had nothing to with his dc, she looked after them 100% while he got drunk.

I suppose i'm frustrated DP is refusing to believe this man could have done anything (despite him saying he was always a bit of a little shit as a teenager). I just want him to keep an open mind, but also to stop vilifying this woman, as it is in my opinion highly highly likely she is the abused victim here.

I mean women who have abused their partner do not just leave for no reason and go live in a refuge do they? Leaving the man in their house with all the luxuries?

And the fact he has supervised contact and not just regular contact, isn't that an indication that the courts are not convinced he is innocent?

I'm trying to keep my mouth shut and stay out of it, but I feel bad this woman seems to have no one on her side (she has no family here, I think she has a mother abroad still)

I haven't read any replies so not sure if someone has already said the same as me.

As someone who's child was once under supervised visits I can tell you that the court/solicitors don't do that on a whim .. there will be evidence of why supervised visits are required. He won't tell you, nor anyone else that though. Also womens refuges don't take in anybody and everybody. Spaces are limited. Again, there is likely to be evidence. For all yous know she has been in touch with them for weeks/months/years and they have quite a case built up. None of yous are getting the full story here. Of course she is 'mentally unwell' .. apparently so am I.. says the abuser and the abusers family.

I have been in an abusive relationship , and even when some of our friends KNEW things he had done to me they all still said oh well it must be a bit of your fault that u aren't getting on because he's lovely man and highly regarded at work and best friend to everyone and always goes out of his way to help everyone etc ! That is how they get away with it for so long as they are masters of manipulation! It's not your partners fault for not seeing it really if he is sheltered and never understood abusive personalities, but he should be listening to how u feel about it as his partner rather than being more on this bastards side 😡 and yes they always claim the woman is mental /an addict/ incapable of looking after children and she's the abusive one etc . Deffo stick up for her at the meal too they may have doubts themselves even if they appear to be sticking up for him and the more opinions on her side may help to make them realise it is him x no one would want to live in a refuge with their children unless it was absolutely necessary and places are definitely hard to come by . Could you contact her via fb? She may be wary that your trying to find out where she is to report back to the husband though as refuges are secret locations to protect them

@SandyY2K we occasionally have someone like that woman too. Nowadays the counsellors are pretty adept at spotting it and will make the call to various services on behalf of the kids. We spend a lot of time keeping non counselling staff up to date with safeguarding and the kind of signs, behaviours they should be reporting to the counselling team. So all cleaners, kitchen staff, admin staff etc keep theri eyes open. Even me, and I am very back room!

Nope, not goading him into starting a fight with his family. Where did you get that from?

By mostly keeping out of it, I mean he sympathises with them instead of standing up and saying, well actually, she must have left for a reason type thing.

Ah man it would frustrate me hugely to hear comment like this and I’d have to counter their opinions.

Abusers having people around then who support/enable/turn a blind eye to their abuse is sadly common. It’s also fairly common for abusers to be quite likeable charming people ….or rather present as that to people outside their families.

I’m not sure about you offering g support for this woman. You barely know her and are closely connected to people who are supportive of her abuser. I’d suggest just leaving her be but challenging comments from your DH and family.

I’d struggle to respect my DH if he didn’t give some thought to the potential for his friend to be abusive.

Not saying it’s impossible but it’s vanishingly unlikely.

Not many refuge spaces and there’d be an assessment before offering one
Refuges often aren’t particularly nice places, cramped and full of strangers.
Most women have to uproot their whole lives and the lives of their children and go wherever in the country they can be accommodated l

Nobody would do that for no reason.

Just to add I’ve known several DV situations where supervised contact wasn’t ordered even though there was DV. If he’s having contact supervised by professionals then your DH and family are naive (thick) to think he’s not posing any risk.

I think it's just showing he's struggling to reconcile the friend he thinks he knows, with the reality of who is friend is.

That. And it goes x100 for the guy's family.
I don't know how any parent or sibling could get their head around the person they love being an abuser. The implications of that, the guilt, the blame, the what ifs, are incredibly hard to process. It's going to take time, and a lot of it, so I'd give them a bit of a pass for a while, to be honest.

Likewise for your partner, there's an element of 'what does this say about my ability to judge character, if my friend is an abuser?'. Again, it's going to take time.

Not another poor innocent man with a crazy ex? Loves his children but can't see them properly because he has been so wronged, and so misunderstood...and all because of "crazy" ex? Lot of them about aren't there!

Less cynically, she might have mental health issues, but even if she has every diagnosis going that doesn't mean she and the kids weren't at risk from him. The two aren't mutually exclusive, far from it as trauma and difficulty at home has an impact.
As others say, the courts are very unlikely to conclude supervised contact is required unless there's more to it.

Why is it in court - social work concerns or private custody proceedings?

As a victim I ended up very mentally unstable. It could both.

100% this lady will be a victim of abuse, does not mean it was physical. Claiming / stating someone is mentally unwell is one of the most common things bullies do. As other posters have said, you don’t just ask and get entry to a women’s refuge. Your instinct on this man will be absolutely correct. I am sure his whole family are making it much worse for the lady and child involved.

I would be v v pissed off with DP. If he believed and maintained contact with his friend and/or argued that the situation is unclear.

Being ‘naive’ isn’t an excuse: there isn’t a neutral position on this.

This reminds me of a man my EXH defends to the hilt. No one believes his "crazy" ex. He's done such a job on her and isolated her from everyone. She has a "cold" exterior to everyone and no one likes her in the community. I sat with her one day after the school run as I couldn't walk past her. She looked so broken. I heard her story, absolutely horrendous. I told her that I believed her. I'm not a close friend but she does message me from time to time and she always refers back to me saying that I believed her and how much that meant to her. I was only talking about her yesterday so got in touch. She's doing ok considering but feels so let down by everyone around her 😔

I won't be aggressive, i'm not like that, but I will likely end up saying something to stick up for her.

What about asking questions, maybe something along the lines of "Why do you think the court has stipulated he has supervised access to the children?" in the hope that that will put doubt in their minds and they'll consider you might have a point rather than straight out dismiss everything you say.

I wish you well with it. And the woman and her children

Well it’s not impossible that she has manipulated people and created a false narrative out of some agenda.
I mean it’s not impossible.

But it’s highly highly unlikely isn’t it.
Statistically we know it’s unlikely.

It’s kind of like false accusations of rape. Yes it does happen. But for a case to get all the way to a conviction and turn out to actually be false - highly fucking unlikely.

The most likely explanation (based on statistics) is exactly what you think it is. She’s the victim. He is not the victim.

Having seen abusers friends make excuse after excuse for their shitey behaviour towards their victims, i have no tolerance for people who do it.

They always fall into one of two camps - similarly abusive people or, people who are under the thumb of the abuser and too weak willed to tell them to sod off.

Either way, they condone the abuse by staying friends with people like that. And even if they are otherwise nice people, it's pathetic and would make me lose all respect for them.

A case has since gone to court and the man now has supervised contact with his dc.

For this to happen the bar is high. There would need to be some serious issues - possibly towards the children.

It wont be for nothing OP and its not that the courts are convinced he is innocent is that it is pretty clear cut he is guilty.

@Orgasmagorical

That is a good idea. I think putting in a few questions like that, next time it comes up, would get them thinking, rather than me just stating my opinion (which would be dismissed, i'm sure)

I'm also sorry to hear the stories from those who have gone through similar, and survived. It must take a huge amount of courage to leave a situation like that and seek help, which is why I do believe this woman. Its not something you do for no reason.
And the comments since from him about her abusing him, and her being mentally unwell. And the fact he never mentioned any of this to anyone in the whole time they were together. And when I met them previously, he was loud and obnoxious and did not look at all like a man under the control of this shy, quiet woman.

How in God's name does your partner think he can judge a family harm situation from the perspective of being friends with the perpetrator and barley knowing the victim?

And who the hell does he think he is to even consider judging her?

Here's what your husband knows about family harm: 0

Even a cursory read of some factual information about abuse would clear up some of his "beliefs",

The narrative that women treat refuges as holiday camps and a way to get back at partners is generated by those with no knowledge of how they operate. It also reveals a lot about their (lack of) character.

Refuges are a last resort for the extremely vulnerable. And living in one isn't pretty. In fact a lot of women choose instead to couch surf or live in their cars.

If you reach out to this woman and find out if there is any way you can support her you may make a very positive difference to her life.

As for using "mentally unwell" as a character flaw, that beggars belief.

It would be very surprising if anyone who has suffered abuse to the extent of being driven to seek refuge is able to emerge unscathed by anxiety, depression or PTSD. To then consider that as "evidence" of being unreliable is appalling.

What a bunch of fuckwits.

You actually don't know what really happened. You don't even know this woman well enough yourself. I would just keep out of it. As pp have stated that women shockingly can have their own agendas. You really don't know exactly what happened so just stay out of this.

@saraclara

I think it's just showing he's struggling to reconcile the friend he thinks he knows, with the reality of who is friend is.

That. And it goes x100 for the guy's family.
I don't know how any parent or sibling could get their head around the person they love being an abuser. The implications of that, the guilt, the blame, the what ifs, are incredibly hard to process. It's going to take time, and a lot of it, so I'd give them a bit of a pass for a while, to be honest.

Likewise for your partner, there's an element of 'what does this say about my ability to judge character, if my friend is an abuser?'. Again, it's going to take time.

Really?

You think calling someone crazy, a bitch, defaming them and condemning them because is part of “processing” it?

I’d rethink that if I were you. Particularly in relation to the “crazy/ mental unstable / bitch / making it up part.

They should be asking themselves why their golden child can only have supervised contact with his own children. That might be a good point to start processing things

Of course his family are on his side.
You can't just stay at a refuge without good reason. Does his family really think she'd uproot her whole life and her children's to permanently move away from everything, taking very minimal belongings, for no reason?? This isn't a split second decision either, it will have been weeks, months or even years in the making.
Also, you don't get granted supervised visitation for no reason either.

Plant the seed in a non-confrontational way. So not ´he must have beaten her up for her to have a place in a refuge’, but ´he must have scared her’. The same row can be totally terrifying from the woman’s point of view, and not a big deal or ´justified’ from an (abusive) man’s point of view.
I’ve had to have this conversation with my DH about a friend of his. I have no idea what really happened between him and his ex, but DP accepted the idea that his friend must have scared her much more easily than the idea that his friend must have been ´an abuser’.
Obviously deliberately or regularly terrifying your partner is abusive behavior, but save that follow up conversation for another day.

As a woman currently living a refuge fleeing emotional & financial abuse I can assure you I waited months to be offered a space here, it is not easy to do and it's been the hardest time of my life doing it.

My ex also portrayed the same narrative about me, dismissing my word against his so I wasn't believed or supported by anyone. That is all part of the cohesive control and manipulation to isolate me.

I was so fragile when I left I couldn't even trust my own thoughts, broken down so much I hardly recognised myself yet no one around us noticed or saw anything.

Keep an open mind, abuse takes many forms and most is not visible to family and friends.