Can’t forgive H for the baby years.

[MountainSun]

H abandoned me big time during the baby years. No other word for it. He’s a workaholic, I’d moved to another country to be with him so I was completely alone. No friends or family, just my overbearing and bullying in-laws.
I had 3 under 3 (one set twins). It was awful. I barely slept for 5 years, I never had a moment alone, I was bullied by his family, I was basically completely on the edge, then found out he’d been having an affair and I ended up having a nervous breakdown.
At this point, he seemed to realise things were not ok. I had told him repeatedly before this point.
He hired a nanny, confronted his family and ended up cutting ties with all but one of them, and promised to be around more. He said it was an emotional affair only - I don’t believe this, they had texted saying they loved each other and he’d been on multiple work trips with her in the same hotel. I’m not thick. I suppose there’s a chance he’s telling the truth….but not a big one.

This was all 4 years ago. Things are better now - he’s tried very hard to make things right, fully accepted blame for what he put me through, and is kind and attentive.

But I just can’t forgive him. It was all bad but the affair was the proverbial straw. And the whole thing just broke me. I used to be the happiest, most cheerful and positive person you’d meet. Now I’m bitter, miserable, full of resentment and constantly tired.

Had a massive row today because he was complaining about me buying a new bike for one of the kids. I’d bought myself one last month so I can go cycling with them, and at the time he said how nice an idea it was. But since then it’s been constant comments about the cost of the bike. And I just think to myself, after all the fucking shit I went through, and you’re earning £100k a year with no mortgage mainly due to having a fucking drudge at home raising your kids and running all your life admin whilst you gaily built your stupid business up (which I’ve also helped lots with), if I want a nice bike then I’ll fucking have a nice bike.

Instead, I’ve taken a loan out today to pay him back for the bike because I can do without being reminded of the cost of the bike several times a week. He’s predictably said ‘oh no I don’t want your money keep it’ but he’ll bloody have it and much good I hope it does him.

I know I could leave him but we have a nice house here and the kids are happy. He works away most weeks so I muddle along ok. If I leave then we’d be in a much worse house and away from the kids school and friends. It’s never that easy in real life.

But there. Most likely no one will read this but I don’t half feel better for getting it off my chest.

Your only options aren't leave or put up with this.

In terrible relationships, in abusive relationships, in just plain substandard relationships we leave when we can. If right now you can't leave that's ok. You leave when you can and if you don't reach that point then you stay.

So if you stay how do you build a life you don't want to run away from but feel you can't? How do you become a fun mum? How do you stop him making snide comments (cost of a bike this week but it will always be something) or if you can't stop that from him how do you build the resilience to allow that stuff to go in one ear and out the other?

Could you have therapy? Not couples therapy but just for you. To work on self love, resilience, healing from the trauma of those baby years and his affair.

Could you join a choir? A gym? A book club? A feminist consciousness raising group (not kidding)?

Where can you build the connections that will sustain you till your children leave home? How will you become the you that you would've been already if those years of trauma and let's be honest humiliation didn't interrupt and set you back?

There are answers and you will find them. You have to choose the life you want. If you choose to stay then choose every day to make staying work for you. Choose to love you. Choose to build you.

You've started that with your return to education. Just keep going. And bloody rinse the bastard for any money you need. It's family money. You're his wife. You sodding well earned it.

@CinnamonJellyBeans

The affair was four years ago. He has kept to all of your conditions. You do not have to forgive and forget, but it is not constructive to use the affair as a bargaining chip or when you need to score a point.

Your arguments about money are not a result of his affair. You need a joint bank account, so you can take what you want for the kids and family expenses.

I agree to a point. It's not reasonable for the husband, whatever he did in the past, to never again be allowed to disagree with the OP or raise a query about a large item of spending. I don't think he's right but he has the right to be wrong occasionally, they should be able to have robust discussion without this looming up all the time. He has also cut ties with his own family which is no small thing. Christ I can't believe I'm defending him but it's so easy to paint him as a total bastard who should be left forthwith, but that is overly simplistic and not even necessarily in the OPs best interests.

@Salmakia

Your only options aren't leave or put up with this.

In terrible relationships, in abusive relationships, in just plain substandard relationships we leave when we can. If right now you can't leave that's ok. You leave when you can and if you don't reach that point then you stay.

So if you stay how do you build a life you don't want to run away from but feel you can't? How do you become a fun mum? How do you stop him making snide comments (cost of a bike this week but it will always be something) or if you can't stop that from him how do you build the resilience to allow that stuff to go in one ear and out the other?

Could you have therapy? Not couples therapy but just for you. To work on self love, resilience, healing from the trauma of those baby years and his affair.

Could you join a choir? A gym? A book club? A feminist consciousness raising group (not kidding)?

Where can you build the connections that will sustain you till your children leave home? How will you become the you that you would've been already if those years of trauma and let's be honest humiliation didn't interrupt and set you back?

There are answers and you will find them. You have to choose the life you want. If you choose to stay then choose every day to make staying work for you. Choose to love you. Choose to build you.

You've started that with your return to education. Just keep going. And bloody rinse the bastard for any money you need. It's family money. You're his wife. You sodding well earned it.

Great post.

@CinnamonJellyBeans

The affair was four years ago. He has kept to all of your conditions. You do not have to forgive and forget, but it is not constructive to use the affair as a bargaining chip or when you need to score a point.

Your arguments about money are not a result of his affair. You need a joint bank account, so you can take what you want for the kids and family expenses.

Agree with this. You can't forgive and keep bringing it up OP. It's hard but if you find you can't truly forgive but want to, then why not try counselling.

Are you up to date on your NI contributions?
Are you paying into a pension? OP, you need to protect yourself - go and see a financial advisor and ask how to get your ducks in a row. I'm not saying LTB now but get ready in case you need to.

My father was a consultant psychologist. He used to do counselling. He had a client once who wasn't sure whether to stay with her husband or call it quits. He said that you don't always like your spouse , you wont always feel that you love them. What you cannot do without is respect. Once that has gone the marriage is over. Only you know whether you still respect your husband. If you don't you need to have a serious think about how you are going to live with that.

@Salmakia I love what you have written here, every word of it. I'm on that long, slow road back to loving myself and living the life I want to lead. You are completely right you have to reaffirm that choice every day, starting each day intentionally.

@CinnamonJellyBeans

The affair was four years ago. He has kept to all of your conditions. You do not have to forgive and forget, but it is not constructive to use the affair as a bargaining chip or when you need to score a point.

Your arguments about money are not a result of his affair. You need a joint bank account, so you can take what you want for the kids and family expenses.

Agree with this. If you want to stay and it sounds like you do, you'll need to a)go to counselling and b) lose your shit at him for being a stingy fucker. Make it clear to him that his behavior isn't acceptable and you will leave if he continues to use finances as a stick to beat you with.

He sounds awful OP. So everything is ok as long as you follow his rules. And he had an affair. You deserve better. Life is short

I left a really nice house, largely because ExH basically checked out of any sort of responsibility while DD was little. I was definitely (and justifiably) quite bitter over it for a while.

Me and DD are fine now. I’m happy, and looking forward to a lot more freedom and putting myself first now she’s older. I am not (and will not be) actively seeking another relationship, although I am beginning to be open to the idea of one. I’d never say never, but I very, very much doubt I will live with a partner or marry again. I don’t really want to compromise ever again. I feel like I’ve sacrificed my life and I’m obviously still putting my DD first. I’m going to need quite a few years of ME ME ME ME before I can consider any sort of us, I think.

So go if you’re unhappy. I genuinely don’t miss the big house at all. Ever. Sure it’s financially less comfortable (especially just now), but not being someone else’s drudge more than makes up for it. And if you break out, you won’t resent him so much and you might not be bitter for ever. I think you will if you stay, though.

The affair is relevant though, because it basically all but broke the OP. Years of family life where he not only cheated, but absented himself from all of the stresses and strains. And now he objects to OP getting a bike so she can cycle with her kids - you know, family life, that thing that he can’t be arsed with. It’s all the same. And OP cannot be expected to forget such a terrible betrayal.

Couldnt just read and run.

I met someone when I was 17, he whipped me off my feet with his amazing car and took me out to amazing resturants. He was 10 yrs older than me.
He worked abroad all week and made me go to stansted to pick him up and drop him off.
He got a job in California when I was 18 and he perswaded me to live put there with him. I ended up getting a job but it was very lonely. Fell pregnant with DD1 at 20 and wanted to come home much to his disgust.
We have 2 girls together. 19 and 15. We split up when DD2 was 4. He was so controlling with money, made me feel bad for driving to see my mum 20 miles away!
He is still the same now, lives in america, hasnt seen the girls for 3 years, earns over £100K and has a new wife and 2 kids
I guess it takes a long time to realise you dont want this anymore, it took me years and in the end I thought no this isnt what I want, he also only came back at weekends. x

[quote LollyLol]@Salmakia I love what you have written here, every word of it. I'm on that long, slow road back to loving myself and living the life I want to lead. You are completely right you have to reaffirm that choice every day, starting each day intentionally.[/quote]
Am so glad you're building that happiness. I am too! Mine has focused on consciously thinking about financial security and focusing on my own labour as a way to escape poverty instead of working for free all the time! But of course that stability is now giving me the freedom to choose happiness more and more. It's been a shift and I had to look at the things I could control - how I respond to the world not how the world is. But it's working out.

I'm lucky because when I got out of an abusive relationship I not only had womens aid providing real sensible advice I made connections with radical feminists who totally affirmed that so much shit women face is not just personal but political. It's not us as individuals but so so many of us that it's really a systemic issue. And it's hard to blame yourself and beat yourself up for not leaving or not doing something when you are learning that bloody hell it's all of society that sets us up for this.

I just really wish this kind of healing for the OP too and for all women who need it.

How old are your children now?

Sometimes staying until the children grow is the right choice. Only you can know in your circumstance. How long before the youngest is 18?

In the meantime if you decide to stay, plan for later; what you will do when they are grown and you have a clinical career. Think about the type of nursing you will enjoy specialising in and whether you will want to live near a big hospital or take a communicate based role, city or rural, coastal or inland. Start planning for what your world will be when your children marry and have their own children; where do you want to be living when they visit you, what memories you will make with them. Research it all until it’s time. Then divorce him and live your best life without him!

Community based - not communicate!

I have nothing to add to the wise advice above, except really a grand is not a lot for a half decent bike. So he should shut his bloody mithering.

I WAS lusting after this ( but not a hope after the gas bill I’ve just had)
pacecycles.com/collections/complete-bikes/products/rc295-ultimate-axs-complete-bike

And no, road,bikes aren’t any cheaper

www.liv-cycling.com/gb/langma-advanced-sl-disc-2022

I worked in the trade, and tbh 1k new is considered a starting price point for something properly decent that is light, comfortable and will last long enough to be good value. If your budget is any less, you are better off looking for a secondhand or sales bargain. There are exceptions of course, but it’s a good rule of thumb when you start shopping round and deciding if you can afford new vs secondhand.

I can so understand your total resentment towards him, and I am sorry but I am unsure how you could overcome that. He let you down badly. But well done for returning to education. It is a step in the right direction and hopefully through this your confidence and self esteem will grow.
He doesn’t recognise the huge value in what you do. Please don’t pay him back for that bike. That is your money as much as his, you more than earn that, however much it costs. Tell him you won’t be paying him anything back, and you might just be upgrading the model/booking yourself a spa break. Please, at least you must recognise your worth.

@MountainSun

The affair ended but do you think it was on the way out already?

I read his phone and found the messages. It was pretty humiliating as they were in his language so I had to ask a local lady here who I’d met to translate them for me. Lots of text speak so Google translate wouldn’t have done it so no choice really. That was a fun afternoon. And another potential friend who just magically melted away, unsurprisingly.

In one of the messages he says that although he does love her, he had to stay with me as they had already discussed. She then persuaded him to drive to hers and talk (an hour away) which he did. It meant missing his daughters 3rd birthday party and leaving me with a whole party to run and a houseful of toddlers and parents. It was a nightmare. He’d told me it was car trouble.

When I suspected the affair, he told me I was mad and imagining it. When I finally got hold of his phone and confronted him he STILL kept on with the ‘you’re paranoid’ Lind until I showed him the screenshots. At which point he shat himself.

Ah, the memories.

I think the problem you've got, OP, is that someone who would lie to you and gaslight you this extensively is not someone you could ever trust again.

I would suggest a two-pronged approach.

Firstly, if you've decided not to leave whilst your children are dependents... Make peace with your decision and be proud of your maternal instinct for your children - it is a noble and creditable choice. Allow yourself permission to NOT forgive your husband and to know that it's ok...forgiveness is not always the best course for our own healing despite the pressure to conform and do so. Your heart and spirit are entirely your own, and so is the pace of your healing and growth. You don't have to voice this out loud - your thoughts and feelings are your own too.

Make a long term plan to create options for your future when the babies are independent adults. It may seem such a long way off now but it will roll around so much quicker than you think. Have a date in mind when you will revisit your decision to stay - perhaps when the youngest is 21. Setting this in motion will help you feel more in control of your life and feel less trapped and more cool-headed with your current situation.

Secondly, it sounds as you're already well on the journey of striving to make yourself more independent. Can you develop this further on the financial side and keep it entirely private? It would be a release valve for you and give you a greater sense of freedom in your everyday life.

Do you have your own bank account? If not perhaps start with that. Build up a savings fund for yourself. Think about how family finances are organised at the moment - are you responsible for arranging the grocery shopping? Clothes for the children, trips out? Withdrawing additional cash to stash alongside these expenses could be feasible.

You sound in turmoil about staying, being unable to forgive, and being financially dependent. Cease battling with yourself and use your situation to your own advantage to build up your own resources - both personal and financial, your resilience, and your options for the future.

Some very weird responses on this thread.

I think you desperately need therapy, because you need a space for yourself.

(Halford bikes are utterly shit. £1100 is a very reasonable amount for a new bike that actually fits you. Demand for bikes has skyrocketed, I paid £600 for a reconditioned bike last year. He needs to let go of this. I suspect he really doesn't like being 'one down' to you.

Are you still living in his country, or are you back in the UK?

Congratulations, you’ve survived a breakdown and are starting to get your life back 👏🏻. Only thing left to do is leave this awful, awful man and continue to build your social life and self esteem.

It sounds like you are deigning to be with him despite the past, and so every annoyance from him throws you into a rage because you are putting so much effort in to trying not to let your disappointment and resentment rule.
But your emotions are yours to have, and sometimes relationships get fucked up past the point of 'okayness' being a reasonable possibility. You can't balance how you feel against the effort and work he's done and how much he loves you and come up with an outcome. That would be logical and emotions aren't logical.
It's worrying that you feel like such a different person and a stranger to yourself.
Why trap yourself to prove something to people who don't know you and likely will never think well of you anyway? What, are they going to die and at their funeral you're going to think 'ha, at least you didn't get to say I was a gold-digger', is that worth it?
You've done the baby years with twins. You can do anything. You and your family can be happier and more free than this.

"I ended up having a nervous breakdown.
At this point, he seemed to realise things were not ok."

I didn't get past here tbh.