My husband loves someone else as well as me

[Sazdun]

Bit of a long winded one but all my close friends are also friends of his or wives of his friends so have no one to turn to.
My husband and I have been married for 8 years and together for 15. We have two girls (5 years and 10 months) and life is pretty much perfect. Yet despite all this I have found out he is in love with someone else. I know he loves me too but having seen how he behaved last weekend I am now all over the place and feel shattered.
Back in 2013 a new girl joined his work and from the get go it was clear there was a mutal attraction there (I don't think anything aside from some slight flirting has ever occured) but she also moved very near to us and as a result my husband (fiance at the time) and her would share lifts, walk to work together etc and grew close. Since they both met she has also been with her partner too. This is why I don't believe anything has ever occurred between them.
Over the years my husband and her have been on work trips together, hung out together and we as a couple have socialised with her.
To be honest, current issue aside, I see what my husband likes about her, she is pretty and very kind. Over the years she has made a real effort to include me, give gifts to our kids, help us out but if I am honest deep down it has always left a bit of a nagging feeling that this is all just an attempt to seem great to my husband. I know this makes me sound paranoid but otherwise she would just be too bloody perfect.
In return my husband seems to make an effort in his friendship with her even though he is not an overtly sociable guy. They message each other fairly regularly despite working together and while the message are all above board (I've checked), he doesn't behave like this with any other women.
After a night out when people mistook her for his wife and his friends were teasing me about 'the other woman', we had an argument about her and candidly spoke to him about her. He said he doesn't know what it is about her but he likes her and cares for her and is someone he would like in his life. While that made me slightly uncomfortable and I don't really know what to make of that, at the same time I want my husband to have friends who he cares about who are a range of different people. It has meant Over the past three years I have stepped up to be a friend to her too, I thought that might guarantee there is less chance she might overstep the mark and do anything. As I have got to know her I can see she cares deeply for my husband but that she also values the friendship I have with her too. I also think she is quite lonely and insecure. Personally I think she can do better than the guy she is with and I can see why someone like my husband is the type of person in an ideal world she would be with however in this world he is my husband.
Anyway last weekend we were at her wedding and my husband's reaction to her freaked me out and brought everything that has been under the surface for the past 8 years to a head. As she walked down the aisle he couldn't take his eyes of her. He even said to me she looked stunning (he isn't the type of guy to normally talk about people like that) and at a point in the ceremony he looked about ready to cry (he didn't even look at me like that at our own wedding). Later at the reception when my husband and her danced together they looked perfect together and so happy to be dancing together. I honestly felt like I had been punched in the gut. We left not long after as I said I didn't feel well. When we got home the next day I spoke to him about how I felt and asked him if he loved her. He said that he ofcourse loved me but there was a part of him that did love her but he didn't know in what way and he has felt like that for years but would never do anything to hurt me and our girls. When I asked him if he wanted to be with her, he said there was no point discussing that, however now I can't get it out my head. He has known her since before we got married, he could have broken it off with me and got with her if he wanted and I feel she would have been happy to go with him but now I feel like she will always be the perfect one who got away to him and I will never be able to view their relationship as an innocent friendship.
I don't know what to do. She has invited us round for dinner next weekend but I can't even face seeing her and I now feel like my husband doesn't truly love me or that our life is the one he truly wants and I feel heartbroken.
Any advice on what to do would be great.

Was he planning on standing up and shouting 'it should have been me!!' or was he just delighted to see his friend looking so beautiful?

You need to work on your own self-esteem. This woman and your husband have had numerous opportunities to be together, but haven't acted on them. It is possible for a man and a woman to be platonic friends, despite pp saying it's not so.

Be kind to yourself, maybe some couples counselling might help.

Okay wow, that text changes everything. All me me me and her her her, barely a mention of you, his wife. Get angry OP, don’t let him disrespect you like that. I would never look at my other half in the same way again if he sent me a text like that talking about someone else, I’d be absolutely furious. I understand why you might feel beaten down by this though, after enduring it for as long as you have.

Is this thread for real??

Both the OP and her husband write essays.
Same style of writing too

It is possible for a man and a woman to be platonic friends, despite pp saying it's not so.

It absolutely is and my closest friends are male.
But as much as I'm pleased that their other halves respect our friendship, I'm careful to respect their relationship and that means being conscious of boundaries that weren't applicable when we were younger and carefree.

Hi OP. I've only read your posts on this thread because I can only imagine the kind of black-and-white, LTB, he's-an-abusive-monster, you've-got-no-self-respect, etc etc etc advice you're likely getting.

This seems a very complex situation and I commend you and your husband for the open and honest relationship you appear to have. You are very insightful in your assessment of him and her. I would agree that caution is key to avoid precipitating something undoable, so please take any "LTB immediately!" call to action from the thread with a pinch of salt.

I think someone like Annalisa Barbieri, who writes the "Problem Solved" family advice column in Saturday's Guardian, would be a good person to turn for advice to. She writes very considered responses that often dig beneath the surface to uncover what might really be going on, and she usually consults a psychotherapist or similar expert.

My recommendation to you would be to consider writing to her and to make no rash decisions. All the best. X

It's difficult because it is bad but not quite bad enough for you to make the decision to go.

In your shoes I would be going though. Life is short. I would want more. I would need more. I would not be able to live with this narrative in the background of my marriage for a minute longer and thus I would divorce him, try to stay friends with him and have a nicer life than the one you will have if you stay.

How self indulgent of him, mooning around after her like some sort of daffy teenager. How aren't you absolutely cringing yourself inside out after reading that essay from him?

I'm embarrassed on your behalf

I also wouldn't be tolerating this shit. Tell him to move out and do more naval gazing on his own time, not yours.

Because right now, he belongs in something like Love Actually.

Gather up your self respect and show him you won't be playing second fiddle whilst he works through his feelings for this woman. Embarrassing

It seems he wants to have his cake and eat it.

They may not be having a PA but seem to be moving that way.

I am curious to know what her new husband thinks of it all ?

I can't advise you what to do but 'valuing yourself more' than you are doing seems like a good start.

I'm sorry x

Please re read his essay, and accept you are not his priority. It is all about them. I'm sorry, but they do sound like them. Them, then there's you. Her husband quizzed you for a reason. Frankly, he won't be so concerned if he has adoring ex's as backup. His text should be saying all the things that are wonderful about YOU. Call me a cynic, but her kindness has been greatly to her own and his advantage. They are hiding in plain sight but doing a terrible job of it. I wouldn't issue any ultimatums. I would just end it. I hope things work out well for you and your children OP. 💐

Reading his mooning teen angst essays about her was sickening.

How do you think he'd react if you sent him mini series texts about some other man?

I know you say you love him but ask yourself what exactly is there to love about him?
I'm not seeing it.

Whoever said that he wrote an awful lot of words about a woman that wasn’t you - his wife - was on the money. You’re barely a footnote in that essay.

You say you love him and he’s ‘yours’, but he doesn’t make it sound like he is yours. He makes it sound like his heart is hers and it’s only circumstance (you) that means they’re not together.

I personally couldn’t live with that and I would leave. You shouldn’t have to play second fiddle inside your own marriage.

I’m sorry though, I can’t imagine how hurtful his words must have been to read.

There are decisions made when settling into a monogamous relationship. You mentioned they have been on “work trips” . I’m sorry I think they’re having an affair. Maybe not a situation either wants to formalise but unless all parties opt for polyamory decisions need to be made before they make themselves. He’s caught and of course doesn’t want to detach from his family. But he could have made more effort to not be drawn into this relationship. Also don’t like the sound of your self esteem “she’s pretty and kind” “I made effort to become friends with her” etc. Shes not that “kind “ if she is happy to court a married man’s admiration she’s insecure and attention seeking. You need a proper assertive conversation with husband. Even some marriage counselling?

You should have reassessed your self worth 9 years ago and be making so little of yourself by staying with this dick. It's never to late to make changes and no way would I approach that woman either,she knows damn well for 9 years he's after her and probably enjoys the attention and validation she needs and he's the very same.I think you nailed it when you said they would be a good match.Please think more about yourself and there are loads of couples not matched lookswise but so what(I'm not saying he's better looking than you btw),I think you feel you punched way above your weight getting your husband but the reality is it was him that punched way above his weight getting you.But your husband won't know that until you go leave him,live your best life

Just to add men like your husband like the chase

@aSofaNearYou

It is really, really selfish of him to put any of that onto you if he is expecting the relationship to continue.

I am firmly of the opinion that if you cheat or love someone else you should tell your spouse as they have a right to choose whether to leave. But there is a unique selfishness to just wanting to put this sort of thing out there but with the expectation that the relationship will continue and you will just live with that hanging over you.

Personally, I would be furious with him. No he hasn't cheated, but he has fancied a woman, flirted with her, and then gone out of his way to make her a massive part of his life. He has told you outright that he is "conflicted" because his friendship with a woman whose wedding caused him profound, unexpected "feelings" is as important to him as his marriage to you. It doesn't matter if he never intended to act on it, it is disrespectful and humiliating towards you.

For me the relationship would be sullied and there would be no going back from that without him atoning for his acute selfishness in both his actions, and burdening you with the information now, by taking an enormous step back from this friendship.

I think you are being far too forgiving.

Exactly this - especially the second and third paragraphs. It's almost like he feels with this honesty, he's basically just telling you things as they are and have to be, and now it's your job to get comfortable with it because he clearly has no intention of fighting for your marriage. I'm someone that tries to be as understanding as possible and I really understand your want to be understanding and kind to the man you love, but he's (intentionally or otherwise) taking the mick here. It's all so self-absorbed without any real thought about what this is doing to you. I'm really sorry, OP

@Lastminutenoworries unfortunately yes. We are similar in the way we phrase and write things. Also I am an editor so with exception of a few typos here and there, I have corrected his writing out of fucking ha it.

I get that you love him and your your life together but this will be like a death by a thousand cuts if you do nothing. At the very least I would consider accessing counselling either alone or as a couple.

He has thrown a hand grenade into your relationship but seems to expect you to be grateful that he is being honest and hasn't been physically unfaithful.

He has admitted feeling a mutual attraction and to flirting with her when they first met but rather than taking a step away to protect your relationship (which should be his priority) he went on to cultivate a friendship with her to selfishly keep her in his life. He then went a step further and encouraged you to befriend her too and allowed this unhealthy complicated situation where you are all involved in each others lives without you knowing the true depth of his feelings towards her.

All the while he gets to wistfully wonder "what if" while still white knighting her right in front of everyone and still gets to feel he is the good guy.

His text is tone deaf and his lack of self awareness is breath taking. How can any person with an iota of emotional intelligence think it is appropriate to tell you about his version of their nearly love storey? The fact he has wondered what it would be like to be with her? That they have role played husband and wife to bat away another flirtatious woman? How he struggles to define what his feelings are towards her as he has enmeshed her so deeply in your lives.

Does he honestly expect you all to have dinner next week like nothing has happened? Are you supposed to just smile sweetly at his emotional deception and pretend everything is hunky dory? That way madness lies.

@PrinzessinCressida

Hi OP. I've only read your posts on this thread because I can only imagine the kind of black-and-white, LTB, he's-an-abusive-monster, you've-got-no-self-respect, etc etc etc advice you're likely getting.

This seems a very complex situation and I commend you and your husband for the open and honest relationship you appear to have. You are very insightful in your assessment of him and her. I would agree that caution is key to avoid precipitating something undoable, so please take any "LTB immediately!" call to action from the thread with a pinch of salt.

I think someone like Annalisa Barbieri, who writes the "Problem Solved" family advice column in Saturday's Guardian, would be a good person to turn for advice to. She writes very considered responses that often dig beneath the surface to uncover what might really be going on, and she usually consults a psychotherapist or similar expert.

My recommendation to you would be to consider writing to her and to make no rash decisions. All the best. X

Great post. I think there are plenty of people on this thread (with good intentions) who are writing off this man, this marriage as if it were a simple thing. And with the usual exhortations that she will meet someone amazing who will love her enormously and of course with no complications. Life simply isn't like that. My ex husband and I seperared 6 years ago and neither of us are in relationships now and objectively we are perfectly nice, attractive, solvent people. Partly because we prioritise our children and the OPs are very young yet. Of course no one should stay in a marriage because they are afraid of what's out there beyond it but most people take many many factors into account before deciding about ending a relationship and there are always compromises. People stay with all sorts of people and accepting all sorts of compromises because when they look at all the elements, they still think 'I'd rather this than that'. The OP needs to take a more nuanced approach to her own life than is presented by some here.

Op if you can take a step back from your own feelings right now and think about what your reaction would be if you child or best friend, mother or sister, found themselves in this situation.

Because if you'd have better expectations for them then you need to apply them to your own life.

@StooOrangeyForCrows

It's difficult because it is bad but not quite bad enough for you to make the decision to go.

In your shoes I would be going though. Life is short. I would want more. I would need more. I would not be able to live with this narrative in the background of my marriage for a minute longer and thus I would divorce him, try to stay friends with him and have a nicer life than the one you will have if you stay.

But you nor anyone can say that she would in fact have a nicer life, that's the problem. She loves the life she already has! And it is for her to tackle this very large issue as she sees fit and to live with what she decides. It might be seperation but it might be something else.

I notice you mentioned you had PND and had 'a rough patch' with your DH, I think this is important to your obvious low self esteem. Did you get help for PND?

I only ask as I had PND after my second was born and even now, 10 years later, it's still affecting my mental health. Mostly in small ways, but it's there. I think you should consider having counselling to work through your feelings not just about the PND and the 'rough patch' but about this situation your dh has built with his 'friend'.

He needs to know it's not ok, he has caused a lot of hurt and he needs to change his attitude towards this friendship. If at the same time you have help working through how you feel I think you will feel stronger making a decision about what needs to happen going forwards. Good luck op, you really sound lovely, he on the other hand sounds like a complete nob

The message makes it so much worse OP. He is basically seeking emotional support from you for an affair he wants to have/has been having. That's outrageous, please don't continue to indulge this shit.

Ahh bless you! You are defending him because you love him.

The truth is, he has been completely honest with you and told he loves you and everything that you both have together, yet cares for his friend. He thinks that by telling you the truth everything will just be fine and you will understand. But it’s not that easy.

You need to tell him you need to get your head around what he has said and you need him to not see her whilst you do this. From what I’ve read it seems it’s completely one sided and she’s a bit clueless to his feelings. I’m sorry your going through this.

Wow! OP the relationship they have is completely inappropriate. It is an emotional affair at the very least. Reminds me of my parents actually- my dad has been having an emotional (and physical )affair with a woman the whole entirety of my parents marriage (37 years) it still endures today. Growing up witnessing it, how it affected to mum, I don't know, I guess it meant in the end it gave me the blueprint of how not to behave in a marriage and also it shaped the way I view them as people, sadly I don't think highly of either of them. They are not people I can respect. Be aware whatever choices you are making will be witnessed by your children and please please understand that they will see more than you think you are letting on

You should get counselling for yourself. So you can work on your self esteem and figure out what you want from life.

Really you should be asking yourself why you think how he has behaved and treated you is acceptable and not so far below what you deserve and that you aren't even considering ending your relationship.

It isnt up to you do anything for him to 'work through' his feelings for someone else. It is very rare for people to go through long marriages or relationships without fleeting physical attractions to other people. But that's all they should be.

How he has encouraged and intertwined you as a couple and a family with her and her family is so disrespectful. I would feel like a complete idiot and have him packing his bags and leaving.