My husband loves someone else as well as me

[Sazdun]

Bit of a long winded one but all my close friends are also friends of his or wives of his friends so have no one to turn to.
My husband and I have been married for 8 years and together for 15. We have two girls (5 years and 10 months) and life is pretty much perfect. Yet despite all this I have found out he is in love with someone else. I know he loves me too but having seen how he behaved last weekend I am now all over the place and feel shattered.
Back in 2013 a new girl joined his work and from the get go it was clear there was a mutal attraction there (I don't think anything aside from some slight flirting has ever occured) but she also moved very near to us and as a result my husband (fiance at the time) and her would share lifts, walk to work together etc and grew close. Since they both met she has also been with her partner too. This is why I don't believe anything has ever occurred between them.
Over the years my husband and her have been on work trips together, hung out together and we as a couple have socialised with her.
To be honest, current issue aside, I see what my husband likes about her, she is pretty and very kind. Over the years she has made a real effort to include me, give gifts to our kids, help us out but if I am honest deep down it has always left a bit of a nagging feeling that this is all just an attempt to seem great to my husband. I know this makes me sound paranoid but otherwise she would just be too bloody perfect.
In return my husband seems to make an effort in his friendship with her even though he is not an overtly sociable guy. They message each other fairly regularly despite working together and while the message are all above board (I've checked), he doesn't behave like this with any other women.
After a night out when people mistook her for his wife and his friends were teasing me about 'the other woman', we had an argument about her and candidly spoke to him about her. He said he doesn't know what it is about her but he likes her and cares for her and is someone he would like in his life. While that made me slightly uncomfortable and I don't really know what to make of that, at the same time I want my husband to have friends who he cares about who are a range of different people. It has meant Over the past three years I have stepped up to be a friend to her too, I thought that might guarantee there is less chance she might overstep the mark and do anything. As I have got to know her I can see she cares deeply for my husband but that she also values the friendship I have with her too. I also think she is quite lonely and insecure. Personally I think she can do better than the guy she is with and I can see why someone like my husband is the type of person in an ideal world she would be with however in this world he is my husband.
Anyway last weekend we were at her wedding and my husband's reaction to her freaked me out and brought everything that has been under the surface for the past 8 years to a head. As she walked down the aisle he couldn't take his eyes of her. He even said to me she looked stunning (he isn't the type of guy to normally talk about people like that) and at a point in the ceremony he looked about ready to cry (he didn't even look at me like that at our own wedding). Later at the reception when my husband and her danced together they looked perfect together and so happy to be dancing together. I honestly felt like I had been punched in the gut. We left not long after as I said I didn't feel well. When we got home the next day I spoke to him about how I felt and asked him if he loved her. He said that he ofcourse loved me but there was a part of him that did love her but he didn't know in what way and he has felt like that for years but would never do anything to hurt me and our girls. When I asked him if he wanted to be with her, he said there was no point discussing that, however now I can't get it out my head. He has known her since before we got married, he could have broken it off with me and got with her if he wanted and I feel she would have been happy to go with him but now I feel like she will always be the perfect one who got away to him and I will never be able to view their relationship as an innocent friendship.
I don't know what to do. She has invited us round for dinner next weekend but I can't even face seeing her and I now feel like my husband doesn't truly love me or that our life is the one he truly wants and I feel heartbroken.
Any advice on what to do would be great.

I have had friends who were male and married. If at any point I had felt that they were infatuated with me I would have got out of the friendship. I wonder what she thinks of all this ?
Of course men and women can be close friends, DH and I both have friends of the opposite sex, of many decades standing. Sometimes one person can have feelings that cross the line , crushes can happen when people are unhappy in their relationships, or in a shifting life stage.
The thing here is that your DH has fed this crush. He is saying that he put a lid on the crush, while demonstrating something else. I wonder if he doesn’t want to admit to himself what his true feelings are ?
I do think counselling might be the way forward now OP, I don’t think you can just bury it. He needs to work out what he feels and what he wants, you need to know the truth of that and to think about what you want and whether you really do want to stay with someone who has such a huge crush on a friend.

I don’t want to be harsh or upsetting, but he’s been on work trips with her. I would strongly suspect that they have slept together and all this “i don’t know how I feel or what kind of love it is, I don’t know why I was upset at her wedding” is deflection to make him seem all confused and innocent about his feelings for his “just a friend”. I don’t doubt it’s complicated, he loves you and doesn’t want to break up his family, and she chose the other guy - but it doesn’t sound innocent to me.

In the interests of being understanding about a friendship, you’ve put up with a lot of shit that has really hurt you. Even if he hasn’t slept with her, he clearly wants to and it’s well beyond what is OK. He should be committed to you, care about your feelings and you shouldn’t be having to sit around having painful conversations about the nature of his love for her and whether it’s harmless - it’s not, it’s hurting you.

I don’t think I could go on like this - but I’d want to know the truth too. I’d be talking to those mutual friends and saying you’re worried. They may well not be on his side at all and be concerned for you.

'Omg sorry your husband is so effing annoying! I can't believe he's managed to maintain close relationships with not one, but two women. I already can't stand him. He writes like he's the lead character in Dawsons Creek. Get over yourself mate - it is so totally unnecessary to commit every thought in your head to a text message. Either bury the feelings or do something about them but don't give your poor long suffering wife that equivocal "will they won't they" message.

If that message hasn't given you terminal "ick" then I don't know what would.'

All of this. Even the bit about a woman hitting on the 'OW' when they were out, annoyed me - he can't bloody help himself, can he? She's so frigging hot, men and woman alike fancy her!

Honestly a heartfelt thanks to everyone. He still hasn't come back from his walk and I haven't replied to him and his essay.
Many of you are right I am feeling like the third wheel but I don't know if I'm making myself feel this way versus what they have actually done.
Even I am conflicted about her the more I dig down. I have to an extent always been about keeping enemies closer and I do believe she is attracted to my husband but has not acted on it. He is good looking and I know people in the past have been attracted to him. I guess the kicker is that the feeling seems to be mutual and it is not some short lived crush but something deeper that has been going on for years perhaps without them even realising themselves. I have grown to like her.
She had cancer a few years ago so can't have kids and I don't particularly rate her husband and do believe she could do better. He jokes about my husband's role in her life and even bought him a bottle of good scotch for saving him from having to listen to his wife's moans about work. By the sounds of what she has told me, he has a lot of exes who have remained friends so I think he isn't too bothered about it all. We are all out once near the start of all this when he asked me my thoughts on their friendship and I played it cool but that is the only time he brought it up and at that time they were training a lot together for a work charity marathon. As I said originally if he wasn't my husband someone like my husband is what she needs. Part of me wants to reach out to her because I do think she wouldn't want to see me hurting like this but im also afraid having his feeling in the open like this might accelerate something between them. Its such a weird situation because she has become very entangled in our lives. I think I have the life she wants, yet her behaviour isn't that of trying to oust me. She sometimes babysits for us to go on date nights, infanct her parents have even stepped in for childcare on several occassions as neither of our families live nearby. Her mom and step dad have knitted and made gifts for the girls and she has organised massages for me and dinners for us when I had post partum depression after my first pregnancy and we were hitting a rough patch.
She isn't a bad person but after last weekend I'm now relooking at everything she has done through a new lens. I'm not an overthinker but this has my head in knots.

@LetHimHaveIt

'Do you not think it useful for the OP to get that perspective? If SHE wants me to stop contributing, that's fine but this situation is nuanced and complicated and a variety of insights can hopefully help her to decide what to do.

I very quickly corrected to 'not coming from the perspective of the husband'. Because you're not. You can't truly know the perspective of another person, even if they are getting their dick wet inside you. You describe the wife as being 'difficult' and your AP as 'lacking in balls' and 'treating her badly' because he didn't want to 'be the bad guy'. How was your behaviour in all this? What sort of person are you? Exemplary, no doubt, and bloody amazing. Ok.

I won't respond because this thread is not about me, I would suggest you also focus on the OP rather than off loading in such a crass way which frankly makes only one person look bad.

He has been emotionally unfaithful to you for years and investing in that relationship at the cost to your relationship.

Not having her makes her more valuable to him. He's got you so he doesnt value you the same way.

Tbh I'd make him feel what it would be like to lose you so he comes to his senses. All this navel gazing is absolutely ridiculous and has cheapened your marriage for the whole duration.

He and she have been very very unfair. And they may be kind and nice people but nice people do not do what they are doing to people they love.

If I was in a happy relationship and felt myself becoming too close to someone then I would deliberately draw back from it. Either that or decide what relationship I want to be in and act on it.

You sound lovely op and far lovelier than either of those two. Time to get angry op. Time to realise what a prize prick he has been and what torture he has administered.

How awful for you to know that every day at work he was interacting with someone he had feelings for. The nights outs, the walks. All under your nose whilst you are there having his kids, looking after his home.

Don't accept this op because if you do, you can guarantee that your husband will spend the rest of your marriage thinking about what might have been and continuing to invest his emotions and time in this woman.

If he realises that you are not a guarantee, that he might lose you, then that will bring him to his senses. And if it doesnt, then you have to decide if you want to continue sharing your husband and feeling shit for the rest of your life.

Maybe some personal counselling could be an option for you OP, instead of relationship counselling.

You’ve let this go on for a long long time without speaking up. The way you still talk about loving him so much, with little anger, makes me wonder about your general self-esteem and also the power dynamic in your relationship. Have you always been the one that loved a little bit more, did you work to “get him” in the first place, or feel that he was out of your league? It doesn’t sound equal or as if you value yourself. I wonder if it was always that way or if you have been conditioned and worn down a bit to feel like he is the more “special one” and you are lucky to have him.

'I won't respond because this thread is not about me, I would suggest you also focus on the OP rather than off loading in such a crass way which frankly makes only one person look bad.'

I'll concede I am offloading a bit, but I'm not the one who has happily admitted to being an OW. And I'm sorry the reality of allowing a married man access to your vagina, seems 'crass' 🙄 I'm sure you're able to paint a much 'prettier' picture of your adultery.

So he's in love with her (by his own admission), and wanted to fix her... and felt shaken by seeing that actually she is happy and got married to someone so she can't need him as much as he thinks she does.

What will happen if she distances herself from him - perhaps she's more in love with her husband than your DH thinks she is. And he's going to get even more stung when he realises that.

He's in an emotional affair. Do you want to play second fiddle to this woman for the rest of your lives? They're the sort who will eventually have an affair with each other, years down the line.

For what it's worth - my friend was the other woman to a man who 'loved his wife so much' but also loved my friend enough to shag her for years, until my friend gave him an ultimatum and left him. It's never innocent OP.

I think at the very least for your own sanity you need to take a big step back otherwise you will live the rest of your life thinking he wanted her not you and what a crap way to live your life.
I would fear he is just settling for you and why should you be second best.I think by you stepping away it might wake him up to what he's losing if you stay he may never see that

Op reading your latest post, the whole set up is just soooo incestuous!

Those sorts of family friends only work when there's nothing else to it. By your husbands own admission there is - at least on his side.

I just don't see how this can work going forward without a clean break between you and them. I'm more convinced than ever that he needs to choose. Failure to do so and you walk away.

There should be no hesitation in him choosing you because ultimately he should be clear on who matters most. If there is, then I would walk away then too.

Whatever you do, don't mention to your husband how suited you think he is to her.

@GlorianaCervixia

His behaviour is awful.

All of it sounds like he's stayed with you because she wasn't available as anything more than a friendship and that if she'd been open to a relationship, he would have left you.

You deserve better than a man who cries over another woman right in front of you.

Is it though? At least he is being honest .

I think you can love two people at once . And probably genuinely he does feel split in two . Emotions are hard to just switch off .

Now she is married and hopefully happy the feelings may fade .

I think you both need to keep talking a lot and perhaps gradually reduce contact with her . If he loves you he should understand and agree to that .

Love and emotions are not as black and white as people are describing on here.

@BananaPlantsyou are right. He is a very handsome man. Women are attracted to him and I think there is a part of me that always thought I had scooped a prize. I have had women genuinely look at me and wonder why he is with me based on looks alone. Physically she and him are more of a match. That being said he can be a stubborn fucker with a terrible sense of dress. There is a list the length of my arm if his negative points that after about a month would send half of those swooners to the hills. But I love him. He is mine and I love him.despite all that. I love our life and our family. I know he loves that too.
I know many people have described him as thinking of women as little creatures needing helped and it isn't so much that but that he was raised in a very traditional house where men did men jobs etc. However he would do the same for me, her, next door his mate. He is just that type of guy who will help people including strangers. Maybe it makes him feel good too but I think this is just the way he is. Not sure why I am defending him

@Balalarama

Omg sorry your husband is so effing annoying! I can't believe he's managed to maintain close relationships with not one, but two women. I already can't stand him. He writes like he's the lead character in Dawsons Creek. Get over yourself mate - it is so totally unnecessary to commit every thought in your head to a text message. Either bury the feelings or do something about them but don't give your poor long suffering wife that equivocal "will they won't they" message.

If that message hasn't given you terminal "ick" then I don't know what would.

This 100%. Eurgh. What a prince he is being so 'honest'. I'd place bets on the fact they have slept together on those work trips & he's paving the way to be with her, by easing his conscience that it's all been out in the open.

@Unsure33 I actually disagree really strongly, in part because of how long this situation has been going on.

Emotions may not be black and white but choosing between your wife and a friend who's threatening your marriage should be.

If he choose the friend, that's his choice and he's entitled to make it. But under no circumstances should the op be encouraged to put up with this any longer.

I'd bet this has gone further than they admit. They are making you look a fool. Be strong here. Make him move out and it's time he chose between the family he's created and his affair partner (that is what she is, emotionally or sexually).

I'm not being second best to some fabulous woman. One of the great things about my DH is I'm his number 1.

Presumably he's your number 1. Why are you accepting second place?

Also you sound like you are still attractive. Don't whatever you do waste your youth and best years on this man. Her relationship sounds flaky so will end leaving her enticingly free to start a new life with. She will always be a threat to your future happiness if you don't bring things to a head now.

She can't have kids. You are the brood mare. I bet that's figured in his reckoning. After you've done all the family slog he can retire with her.

Go build a life with someone who wants just you. Making new relationships in your 50s is hard. Bin him off now.

You are putting yourself last. Your husband's essay is all about his feelings and this woman's feelings. Your posts are all about his feelings and her feelings. What about YOU?

You feel hurt, betrayed, humiliated, fearful, your trust is broken? No?

Why don't your feelings seem to matter to anyone? You even say yourself that you're not sure if your feelings count or if you're "making yourself" feel that way. Obviously you're not "making yourself" have hurt feelings - your husband has hurt you. Badly. You have a right to your feelings.

I think a lot of people posting, including myself, are angry on your behalf. You need to get angry for yourself.

You say you don't want to end the marriage. But are you prepared to stay in the marriage, feeling this way, tolerating your husband's infatuation, waiting for something to happen between them, knowing that for years he put you and your family second?

I think the only way to save your marriage is for HIM to save it. Tell him to leave and give you some space. Tell him you don't know if you can carry on this way, that he's betrayed you and let you down in a major way. For eight years! Fucking hell, OP. Kick him out. If the marriage is going to survive, it will be because he finally starts doing the right things. You don't have to forgive him easily, or at all. But give him a dose of reality.

I don't know why you're defending him either

So what if he's good looking? My husband is leagued better looking than me. He's damned lucky to have me though.

You sound utterly lost and clouded on this. It's like you see yourself as being in the way of their star crossed love! Give yourself a shake OP and read this as if a good friend wrote it about their marriage

You're really over stepping the mark imagining 'you have the life she wants'. She's just got married, and you are saying from observations she could do better? These are all your opinions.

Regarding your own relationship that's for you and your own husband to sort out. While there's nothing wrong with him having close friends he knew before you/works with, you clearly don't feel valued enough for you to have these feelings of being a third wheel. Otherwise it wouldn't bother you as much. I would go to couples counselling

He needs to step away from her

He does sound as though he has white Knight syndrome, he appears to feel sympathy and tenderness towards her, I imagine in part as she has been dealt a hard blow with her cancer diagnosis and subsequent infertility.

@ZenNudist

I'd bet this has gone further than they admit. They are making you look a fool. Be strong here. Make him move out and it's time he chose between the family he's created and his affair partner (that is what she is, emotionally or sexually).

I'm not being second best to some fabulous woman. One of the great things about my DH is I'm his number 1.

Presumably he's your number 1. Why are you accepting second place?

Also you sound like you are still attractive. Don't whatever you do waste your youth and best years on this man. Her relationship sounds flaky so will end leaving her enticingly free to start a new life with. She will always be a threat to your future happiness if you don't bring things to a head now.

She can't have kids. You are the brood mare. I bet that's figured in his reckoning. After you've done all the family slog he can retire with her.

Go build a life with someone who wants just you. Making new relationships in your 50s is hard. Bin him off now.

I really worry that you've hit the nail exactly on the head.

Also, beastlyslumber is spot on. Stop feeling grateful for being married to him op!

It's time to angry.

*time to get angry!

I have had women genuinely look at me and wonder why he is with me based on looks alone

They've said that to you? Or is this low self-esteem talking?

Is your H really that great? He sounds like a dick, tbh. He may have some good qualities but surely first and foremost what you want in a husband is love and loyalty. To you and your DC, not some random woman he fancies.

I would be very careful not to force this into a dramatic 'Choose her or me' situation.

He will feel aggrieved at having to choose, and will run to her with his hurt feelings. She may also feel aggrieved at the suggestion that she's any threat to you.

You need to play it smarter than that. Don't force him to drop her entirely, it will backfire.

I would suggest you talk to him, a lot, about how this makes you feel. If he cares and sympathises, he will want to minimise his contact with her, for you and for his marriage. Tell him it's hurting you - you love him, and you'd prefer it if he stopped hurting you please.

Then leave it to him to decide what to do with that. If he continues, in full knowledge that he's hurting you - then he's made his choice without you having to force it.