Did grief ruined my relationship?

[JohnRingo]

I've taken my SO for granted.
But not exactly in the way you think. Hello, my name is John (34 now) and in the 2015 started this amazing relationship with his amazing woman (32 now). We've built something that comes once in a lifetime, that it's incredible, to say the least. Everything was just super in every department, but in late 2020 everything changed.
My grandmother had an accident and developed dementia, while something happened with my dad, he became ill and suffered for close to an year and finally went into a coma and died this january. It was heartbreaking.
During this period, of course, we stopped going out, on holidays, etc. Not because I did not want to, but because I had no light at the end of the tunnel, I had no idea how the situation with dad was going. But this does not mean I was not there for my OH. I tried my best to do good for everyone.
We've had an argument near NYE and since then she became distant and we spoke finally and she told me that not going in holidays and not doing our usual stuff took a toll on her, that she needs time for herself and that we need a break and wants me out of the house for some time to clear her head.
It's hard to explain what I feel now. I am heartbroken, sad, angry, disappointed because, sadly, this was not the "script".

What can I do?
She does not want therapy, she wants space. I don't want space, space = relationship over for me.

Thank you for your kind answers.

Some harsh responses (because your a man) whose apartment is it? Does it belong to both of you?
If she wants space perhaps she needs to move out.
She doesn’t sound like she’s been very supportive to be honest. She sounds very selfish - and that’s what a woman would be told if she had sick relatives and all her partner cared about was going on holiday!

She seems to have a lot less on her plate than you - perhaps it’s easier if she leaves.

But if you move towards her you might see it. At the moment you are hanging on to your idea of how things 'have to be'.

Her utterly self absorbed behaviour would be the end for me in any case!
I would move out (unless it’s jointly owned in which case she needs to go- or it needs to be sold).
It would be block, delete and good riddance to bad rubbish for me!

@Suzi888

The house is hers, but we redesign it together and then moved in 2016. Before that, we lived together in her accommodation, 5 months after getting together.
So, yeah, there are my money also in the house, but on paper is hers.

But I don't care about that and asking for money, no matter how it ends. I think I am better than that.

You would still have a claim - possibly but could be hard to prove.
I’d be gone then, if she wants her cake and eat it ie you move out but still be at her beck and call - forget it.
She would be out of my life- whether she was a friend or partner. She sounds like hard work and you have enough to deal with.

I think you can do three things.

First, yes give her space. Let her come back to you when she's ready. For the last couple of years you have been clinging to her so as to meet your own needs and at the same time you haven't been able to do the things that meet her needs. She has run dry, let her refresh.

Second, use the space to recover from your own grief. Get some grief counselling or therapy for yourself alone, think about how this experience has changed you, and start to grow a bit of life for yourself independently. Do some things you enjoy, for yourself.

And third, start to think about repairing your relationship and a future together. Some nice things you could do together, things you could both enjoy, like meeting up and going for a drink, and then perhaps leaving town for a holiday together.

Finally started talking and I've explained to her that If I am going, I am going and I am not coming back and she needs to accept this.

Try not be so black and white about it, that's just creating the situation that you say you don't want. If you really don't want to end the relationship and she doesn't want to end the relationship, then don't. Take a break from each other as above. And I get that it's not fair. Loss isn't fair, you have experienced these terrible losses and she hasn't. But if you still both love each other then you can take a break and rejoin, or if circumstances have damaged your love beyond repair then it will end naturally and you'll both move on.

OP what comes over to me in your posts is quite rigid thinking and compartmentalising.

First I get the sense you can only really emotionally focus on one thing at a time and for extended periods too. Your family issues were it and so your GF’s needs were not a priority. You mentioned therapy but not until you’ve finished the paperwork. Why does it have to be one thing then another? Why can’t you spend an hour or two a week in therapy whilst finishing paperwork?

Second your view is that the move out situation is binary - you stay and are together or you leave and relationship over. What she wants is a third option - a break. I fear your rigidity of thinking is going to topple this relationship unnecessarily. Don’t cut off your nose to spite your face.

I don’t think you really see your Gf’s POV on all this. For a really long period you were emotionally unavailable to her despite not much of your time actually been taken up day to day with caring. Yes I get you couldn’t fly to the other side of the planet for hear your Dad would deteriorate or pass away but there was nothing stopping you (when COVID restrictions allowed) for going out with her for a drink. Until he died and then suddenly you expected her to be available to you.

Of course it is hard when family members are very ill. but you often have to balance needs of others. When my mother was terminally ill and died I was pregnant, had another young child, a demanding job and illness with my in laws. Yes I had to dedicate time and emotional energy to my mother and it was hard going but I still needed to be available to my children, my partner and look after myself enough to protect my unborn child. I couldn’t park those responsibilities indefinitely.

Of course it is hard when family members are very ill. but you often have to balance needs of others. When my mother was terminally ill and died I was pregnant, had another young child, a demanding job and illness with my in laws. Yes I had to dedicate time and emotional energy to my mother and it was hard going but I still needed to be available to my children, my partner and look after myself enough to protect my unborn child. I couldn’t park those responsibilities indefinitely.

That's a great post AtLeastPretendToCare. Many men do not understand that many women do not have the luxury of compartmentalizing.

@AtLeastPretendToCare

OP what comes over to me in your posts is quite rigid thinking and compartmentalising.

First I get the sense you can only really emotionally focus on one thing at a time and for extended periods too. Your family issues were it and so your GF’s needs were not a priority. You mentioned therapy but not until you’ve finished the paperwork. Why does it have to be one thing then another? Why can’t you spend an hour or two a week in therapy whilst finishing paperwork?

Second your view is that the move out situation is binary - you stay and are together or you leave and relationship over. What she wants is a third option - a break. I fear your rigidity of thinking is going to topple this relationship unnecessarily. Don’t cut off your nose to spite your face.

I don’t think you really see your Gf’s POV on all this. For a really long period you were emotionally unavailable to her despite not much of your time actually been taken up day to day with caring. Yes I get you couldn’t fly to the other side of the planet for hear your Dad would deteriorate or pass away but there was nothing stopping you (when COVID restrictions allowed) for going out with her for a drink. Until he died and then suddenly you expected her to be available to you.

Of course it is hard when family members are very ill. but you often have to balance needs of others. When my mother was terminally ill and died I was pregnant, had another young child, a demanding job and illness with my in laws. Yes I had to dedicate time and emotional energy to my mother and it was hard going but I still needed to be available to my children, my partner and look after myself enough to protect my unborn child. I couldn’t park those responsibilities indefinitely.

I agree completely about the compartmentalisation. I ended a relationship with a wonderful man (in many ways) because it felt like he could only do one thing at a time in terms of emotional bandwidth. So when there were challenges with his children, I slid down the totem pole into near oblivion because he genuinely seemed unable to switch off or conceive of supporting and being there for them as a priority but ALSO having a loving relationship with me. Once that kind of dynamic starts stretching into months and years, a sensible person says, nah, not for me. OP you said that you couldn't trust for her to be there for you if/when challenges arise on the future. Equally, she can't trust that you won't go AWOL in terms of maintaining your relationship when the next crisis hits. I've been through some serious shit in my life but I still owe something to the people who love me. A relationship is a living thing which must be minded and watered at least a good proportion of the time - and having fun sometimes is not an optional extra either. I probably sound a bit harsh but there is a whiff of the martyr off your posts OP, into everyones life grief, trauma and pain surely come but we have to learn to live well alongside these, take our pleasures where we can and not shut out the people who want to be there for all the times.

I understand and mostly I agree with what you said above theleafandnotthetree, AmaryllisNightAndDay & AtLeastPretendToCare

I don't get the martyr part. I am sorry if I left that impression, but I don't know how, exactly. I am not saying I am the only one that experienced this, grief and trauma, there are sooo many people that had worse, I am sure. At the end of the day I am still standing.
But what happened did not gave me one day to swallow and make a plan how to face all of this. A strategy, anything. That is it.
I did my best as I could with the circumstances and was impossible for compartmentalization.
My mum was frozen most of the times, I have not siblings, so I had to take it all, even leave in the middle of the day from my job (I have a managing position at a PR firm). My colleagues and boss were incredible, but I felt shame there were moments I had to leave during important meetings.

I was supportive, I was caring, I just couldn't go and have fun. A thing we discussed and I knew we agreed upon. I never stopped showing her my love, I just postponed things.

Ultimately, I will leave if that will be the conclusion, but I want to leave knowing everything was left on the table.

OP you sound a lovely person, truly, but over what was really a pretty long period of time, it sounds as if you were incapable of or didn't have any fun AT ALL with your girlfriend. You say you remained loving and supportive and that's great but relationships have many dimensions. You are both young and don't have the responsibility of children - though your family circumstances have been very difficult - and I still think that there has to be some room for passion, laughter, a lightness of touch, especially when a situation is stretching into years. I think it may be that without that regular injection of those kind of dimensions, your girlfriends love sort of seeped away and she just doesn't feel as strongly about you as before. I honestly don't think that makes her particularly shallow or selfish. As I said before, she may also worry that this will be a pattern for you. It certainly was what informed my thinking in making the break with my ex (who I loved very much, still do) - I wanted him to be really present for me, and me for him in every dimension, not a pet that he absent mindedly petted on the head when I whimpered for attention. We all have bad and distracted weeks, months but we can't stow relationships away for much longer than that and expect to open the cupboard again and for everything to be the same.

@theleafandnotthetree

I know, but you do not talk about these things with your partner? You have just one chat and the next one is about the break and that is it?
It rocks the core of what you thought you had, from my point of view.

[quote JohnRingo]@theleafandnotthetree

I know, but you do not talk about these things with your partner? You have just one chat and the next one is about the break and that is it?
It rocks the core of what you thought you had, from my point of view.[/quote]
I agree she has been a bit brutal if it's as you describe. She should certainly have highlighted how she was feeling sooner or in small ways all along. It strikes me that you may be a little black and white in your thinking for your own good - everything is perfect or awful, a break is categorically a break up, her having handled this badly shakes you to your core, etc. I think you have to allow that you have both communicated poorly perhaps and perhaps relied too much on your base feelings of love to pull you through. That has been rattled, that assumption of harmony and being simpatico almost without effort. Life is hard and complicated and messy and sadly people let us down and we let people down. The ones we love the most sometimes. It sounds like there might still be real hope there but you have to let go of this idealised notion of your relationship before things got really hard for you and not be so dogmatic about what X or Y means. It all sounds very intense. I think you need most of all to really start to try in small ways to enjoy YOUR life, reconnect with friends who you may not have seen much of, maybe plan a trip, get some vigorous exercise. Life goes on and you are a good, kind, man, clearly successful at work and with lots going for you. Love and laughter awaits, it may be with your girlfriend agsin, it may be with someone else, but come it will.

@theleafandnotthetree

Thank you for your kind words.
As I mentioned in the previous posts, the implications are important. A break means paying for a new place, while at the same time I need to pay a lot where grandma is.
I have friends, surely, but I do not want to mess up their lives and ask them to stay over.

[quote JohnRingo]@Lampan

Thank you. I just can't understand it. It's beyond comprehension.
We've been together 7 years now, 5 and a half close to perfection. Then this.

I just don't understand. Is it me? Is it her?
I've tried my best, I really did. I go everyweek where grandma is, at the care home, and every week I hear her say she will curse our family and other horrible things dementia makes you say. Then I've seen my dad dying with only his bones left, 32 kilograms, a shadow. And my poor mum, who lost them both, which I am trying to protect. And still I had time to cuddle, to love her, etc. I just not had the desire to go out for a drink or leave town for a holiday.
I know I have my share to blame, but could have I done?

This situation rocked the core of my foundation.[/quote]
You did everything right.

Sadly when some people come into contact for the first time with real demands like this, it changes everything. People going through this are less fun - naturally!! - and have different priorities.

You made time for her, you cuddled her, you gave to her. You did everything right. I don't think you have anything to be sorry for.

But she couldn't cope. 30's is still youngish and some people haven't come up against the tough shit in life. When she does, she will have to go through it and she will grow (or reject it and stop growing).

I'm sorry that she wasn't able to hold on and to be there for you. Your deep love is clear. It's understandable and reasonable if you felt let down by her.

It's worth remembering also that not everyone on Mumsnet is quite what they claim to be. It's worth considering every post, but not all of them are worth valuing.

What if you and she had 2 small children op and you both worked? What would have been different over the past year? Maybe she is thinking if something else comes up that takes up your emotions I will be parenting alone, the family holiday cancelled, because you’ve focussed all your energy on this family illness and issues and she sees how you dump everything else but work.
You wonder why she didn’t talk to you. It could be because she was trying so hard to be supportive, so she buttoned her lip and put up with it rather than sit down and say I know you haven’t any emotion to spare, but I need some anyway. And that kind of thing builds up- I look back at a period when my now husband had something on whcih took a lot of his time. We were very young. I loved him. I didn’t want to spoil his thing but he forgot I existed and I felt so neglected. I did ask for little things like a coffee date. He would book it in and forget, or sometimes I’d be there waiting for him and he would call and cancel. He’d have conversations with me but not have actually spared me a thought, all his focus on his thing. I didn’t have the big crisis with him while it was on but as soon as it was over I lost it.

I'm sorry John but you should have been supported. Going on holiday or meals out would and should have been the last thing on your mind. I would not leave the house incase she does not let you back in. I'm very sorry .

If you refuse to move out because that'll mean the end of the relationship, you'll guarantee the end of the relationship by refusing to give her space.

@Guineapigssweak

I'm sorry John but you should have been supported. Going on holiday or meals out would and should have been the last thing on your mind. I would not leave the house incase she does not let you back in. I'm very sorry .

Whatever about a holiday abroad, you really think it reasonable to go that length of time without a drink or a meal out with a partner? Without any glimmer of enjoyment or sparkle? My closest friend lost his twin sister to suicide 6 momths ago and he and I have gone for drinks several times since. And while there have been sad bits and tears, there has also been laughter and fun. And he has always asked about me and my life too. And he continues to be a loving father to three young children. The OP does not have to be like that of course but his is not necessarily how everyone reacts or copes with trauma and grief. Most people do not have the option of only focusing on The Very Hard Thing plus work, they also have to try and hold together the other threads of their lives like children, wider familiy, voluntary commitments, housework, pets, etc.

It may have been the lockdowns, lots of people re evaluated their relationship (and the need for space) during this time. It may be that what are you are seeing now it is just the straw that dropped the camel back.

It is easier to say she doesn’t like to continue because her life is not what it used to be than telling you she no longer likes you as a life long partner.

It is sad that it has come to this but, if there is any chance to save it… you are more likely to do if you give her the space than if you refuse to go.

Sorry OP, but it is difficult to offer much solace or advice without knowing more details. But the questions that I feel need clearing up are probably frowned upon, if not banned outright. I don't suppose this helps much, but for you OP, and anyone else reading this, if anything I say or ask upsets you, or enrages you, or encourages any other negative emotion, please believe me that that is not my intention, and report me if necessary.

You say that you do not live in the UK, did you have any lockdowns due to Covid in the last two years, and roughly how long did they last for, and were they a ban on going out completely (apart from essentials), and not being allowed to see people who don't live under the same roof as you?

I feel that this question is relevant as it could help to explain your SO's desperation to do "normal" things, like going out and going on holidays, when in "normal" times they might not be so much of an issue. When we are denied what we consider to be our basic human rights for too long a period of time, and when we don't know when, or even if, there is going to be an end date to this imposed imprisonment, and if on top of that many people fear that they, or their normally healthy loved ones, might not even survive this awful time, then the more usual parameters of what should be considered reasonable, can or even probably, change - and quite considerably.

Do you live in a very different part of the world to the UK OP, and is it the land where you were born, and is it your SO's homeland as well? I think that as you both have older family members that live in the same country as you, that it is probably both your's and your SO's homeland, but that is by no means a certainty, as travelling around the world, and even living in other countries has been relatively easy for quite some time now. I am asking these questions - without expecting or needing an answer to the specifics - because, if you live and come from, say Asia, and if most of us on Mumsnet live and come from Europe, North America or the Antipodes, then even in this day and age when we can see and hear, through TV, films and books etc about each others countries, lifestyles, cultures etc (and yes, we can have different lifestyles etc within our own country too, but not usually to the same extent), then we (actually, I think I should stick to "I" here, and not to try to speak for anyone except myself), then I believe that the differences between our peoples, can and probably do, colour our responses in a way that might not be so helpful for someone from a different culture.

I am in no way trying to say that one person's culture is better than another person's, but I am trying to offer - very badly, I admit - my viewpoint that what you and your SO might consider fair and unfair, might differ quite a lot from what me and my family (my familia culture) might consider to be fair or unfair. Therefore if your SO comes from the same country as yours, but maybe from a different culture or class to you, you could be asking us to advise you on the fairness and way forward on your issues, when to a certain extent, we cannot appreciate those issues in the same way that you do.

Of course the vast majority of us are all human beings (I am thinking that people like Putin, Hitler etc might not actually fall under that banner), and some things are universal and some needs and desires are universal,
eg. We all need food, water, defence against the widely differing weather conditions, health, love and companionship etc, but what some of those things look like to some of us, can be widely different to how they look to others.

So really my questions are meant for you to answer to yourself, but on here too if having considered it, you do feel it would be helpful to have some of the Mumsnetters viewpoints. I am very worried that at this point I have managed to insult you by seemingly thinking that you might not have already thought all of this through, if I have managed to upset you without meaning to, but in knowing that the possibility is there, then you have probably found most of what I have said to be very condescending, and all I can do is to either decide not to post this, or to keep on apologising if I have upset you!

I suppose that nearly 1.5 hours after I started this, all I am trying to say, is that if you could give us more of your background information about where you live, and whether you and your SO have very similar backgrounds or not, then we may be able to adjust any advice accordingly, or even suggest somewhere (either on Mumsnet or elsewhere) that might be able to give you more relevant or helpful advice. Both you and your SO are in my thoughts, and I wish you both the best outcomes for yourselves.

We both live in Hungary, similar cultural backgrounds, not religious, a bit spiritual, just two normal people working in advertising (her) & PR (me).

We had a lockdown, similar to the UK, etc. Lockdown did not affect us, or that is my opinion. We did a lot of things together then, as a couple, cooking, we went once per week to buy groceries, watching movies, etc. It was ok, we did not argue, we actually had some fun inside our home.
During the lockdown, two projects she had, hobbies that usually become an exhibition were cancelled. I know it affected her, but I showed support.

Lockdown was okish with us, but then October 2020 changed, near Halloween, with grandma. From that on, it was impossible for me, to just have a normal day.

What I am saying over and over is that I did not have the luxury to grief. I had a long time of uncertainty, like I've said. Listen, dad died of cardiac arrest, he died having 29 kg, lost the possibility to speak, was fed by a tube, had at least 12 bacterias in his body from staying to much in the hospital, a body full of liquid. The reason is pericarditys, however, there is not a case known of pericarditys leading to this. He was seen by at least 10-12 different doctors, no one managed to see what was going on with his body.
(If any of you have a good memory, in the 90s there was NYPD, the tv show everyone watched. At some point, one of the main characters, Bobby Simone, became suddenly ill and died by something that was killing him from the inside. Same thing here, but happened in a longer time).
Besides that, every week, not missing one, I went to the care home to bring grandma's stuff she wants (mostly stuff to give to other people) & every week I hear that you want to kill me, that I am fine, that I can live on my own. Then she returns to normal.

On top of that, again, I did some compartmentalizing. I spoke with my SO about these things, told her is going to be a difficult period until we know for sure what will happen, to have a diagnostic with dad, at least.
And she agrees I did that, she is SAYING I did not do more check-ups with her (weekly) to see how she feels. Which yeah, I agree, I didn't, because I had the impression she understood.
And then, the other argument is what I've told about holidays.

Yes, I am reluctant about leaving, but again, ultimately I will.

You've been through a really tough time and your partner sounds a bit heartless to me. In any case, she wants you out so you'd better do it. Once you are alone, you can grief in peace, not just for your dad and grandmother, but also for this relationship which is now clearly dead.

If she's had enough because you couldn't go on holidays for a year, how would she react in the future if something more serious happened? Could she cope with you getting ill? Or having a disable child? Or her own parents dying? Her reaction is baffling but you can't control that. She was not mature enough to support you in your hour of need. Move out, find some therapy and try to get better. This woman doesn't love you enough

A small update.

She left for Paris a few days, with her friends, and wanted to talk about when she came back. She said not to search for places, but I did.
I am still looking, while her attitude is the same.

I just remember something a few days ago, something I've forgot somewhat. A few years ago, I think 2017, my dad went with her mum for a surgery. He used his connections to get her to be operated (eye surgery) with the guy who owned a clinic, who was his ex-high school colleague.
He stayed and waited in the hospital during the surgery and also gave something extra to the doc.
And remembering this got my quite mad. He did that for her mum, but she couldn't accept 4-5 months of my mum while we try to save him?

Hope I find something this weekend. Seen a few, but they are not what I want.

Not surprised you're rather mad.

She needs to grow up quite a bit.