Ex boyfriend has asked for “feedback”

[HollowedOut]

Should I be honest?

I was with him for nearly 2 years, we split up a few months ago on relatively good terms. We got together about 4 months after I split from exh and I said I was ending things as I thought we’d got together too soon, I needed time to be on my own and I didn’t want a relationship at the moment. In reality it was because I realised he wouldn’t stop talking about how great he was - he’d cook a meal and say “this is restaurant quality food this, isn’t it? I’d happily pay £30 for this meal. I love being able to treat my girlfriend to an amazing meal without having to go to a restaurant”. When talking about work “I only have to work 6 hours a day because I do it so quickly. It’s not that I rush it, I only need to read it once and I’ve remembered it. Everyone else is there doing 10 hour days and I’m here laughing” etc, etc. That and the fact his house was filthy and I couldn’t bear staying there anymore. I hinted and hinted about getting a cleaner, bringing my own sheets and towels because his were rank and he didn’t get it.

Anyway, we occasionally message each other still. Just meme’s or if something comes up in the news about somewhere we went or similar. Today he sent me a very long, clearly very carefully worded email asking me why I’d really split up with him. He thinks that I was just saying it was too soon after splitting with exh as if I was really in love with him that wouldn’t have been an issue. He’s been on a few dates recently and said he thought they went well but none of them wanted to see him a second or third time.

What should I say? Shall I just say that I really wasn’t ready for a relationship or that it was because he’s a self obsessed bore who lives in filth and if I hadn’t been feeling like such shit after splitting from exh I’d have probably legged it after the first date? Or somewhere between the two.

‘Women are not rehabilitation centres for men’

I'd be honest and tell him what you said I your first post, its not nasty or deliberately cruel, just factual. You would be doing him a favour and that is a good thing to do for someone you ate on friendly terms with.

I always thought the shit sandwich was the best way to give feedback but the latest studies and my own experience shows it doesn't work with a lot of people, especially men. If he can't work it out for himself he needs to be told, softening it too much will stop the message getting through, you will go through the effort and guilt of telling him but he probably won't hear it.

Agree that it is the kind thing to do to tell him.
Re the shit sandwich -it is the usual method but can come across as patronising-I see it coming and just tell my boss to cut to the chase. This is not a work appraisal. I would gently say that your reason for breaking up is the too soon thing (and be clear that it real is broken up) but that you did tolerate the dirty house and he didn’t take your hints and your top re the lack of second dates is to spend 80% of the date asking about the other person.

You have already typed it out so change the context to 'you did' and send him this:

'In reality it was because I realised he wouldn’t stop talking about how great he was - he’d cook a meal and say “this is restaurant quality food this, isn’t it? I’d happily pay £30 for this meal. I love being able to treat my girlfriend to an amazing meal without having to go to a restaurant”. When talking about work “I only have to work 6 hours a day because I do it so quickly. It’s not that I rush it, I only need to read it once and I’ve remembered it. Everyone else is there doing 10 hour days and I’m here laughing” etc, etc. That and the fact his house was filthy and I couldn’t bear staying there anymore. I hinted and hinted about getting a cleaner, bringing my own sheets and towels because his were rank and he didn’t get it.'

I definitely wouldn't tell him you find him boastful, as that's just a personality clash thing. I think it comes from insecurity, he needs praise constantly and is now asking for feedback, which isn't normal. I would tell him he is a nice guy who needs to believe in himself more.
I would absolutely tell him to get a cleaner though!, although cleaners don't usually change sheets.

@MMMarmite

An ex gave me extremely kind and gentle feedback, when I asked - about a mental health issue which it's hard for me to see clearly from the inside. It's been hugely helpful.

I think you could tell him but soften the blow as much as possible. I'd say that not being ready was the main reason, but that there were a couple of other things I found difficult in the relationship, and then give details.

Yep

I would send a link to this thread too!

If you still like the bloke and he's decent then I'd tell him. I'd be a less diplomatic than @PyongyangKipperbang and give more detail about him telling you how great he is.

I can't work out if he's trying to improve himself and wanting to be a better person, or his ego has taken another battering and he's trying to make himself feel better by putting a label on your breakup and confirming it wasn't anything to do with him. If it's the latter you may have to accept you don't talk anymore after you reply honestly

I wouldn't say anything because with someone that self obsessed it won't end well. Do you thing he will likely to go "oh! Thank you I'll work on myself". Of course not - he'll argue, tell you he isn't like that, want engagement about it. I would just say you weren't ready for a full on relationship and enable yourself to move on and be free.

@Loopytiles

‘Women are not rehabilitation centres for men’

THIS.

I would give him feedback but try to do it gently.

People value different things. There were some things that you felt didn't make the relationship a good fit for you, but may not bother someone else in the slightest. He comes across as confident which can be an attractive quality but he should take care that sometimes his comments might unintentionally be interpreted by others as arrogance. Also that many people are used to a higher standard of cleanliness at home, so he might want to consider getting some extra help with cleaning if he decides to bring anyone home.

“I’ve debated how to reply to this and have decided that - since you asked and we were together for 2 years and things ended on good terms - I’ll be honest.

I said I was ending things as I thought we’d got together too soon, I needed time to be on my own and I didn’t want a relationship at the moment. In reality it was because I realised you wouldn’t stop talking about how great you are. For example, you’d cook a meal and say “this is restaurant quality food this, isn’t it? I’d happily pay £30 for this meal. I love being able to treat my girlfriend to an amazing meal without having to go to a restaurant”, or if talking about work “I only have to work 6 hours a day because I do it so quickly. It’s not that I rush it, I only need to read it once and I’ve remembered it. Everyone else is there doing 10 hour days and I’m here laughing”. Those are examples, but there were many more and after a while it became very wearing.

The other reason was your house. I hinted many times about getting a cleaner, even bringing my own sheets and towels, but things didn’t change, and I couldn’t see a future with a person whose values about basic home care were so different to mine.

I understand that this might be difficult to hear, which is why I didn’t tell you this when we broke up - I saw no point in saying things that you may find hurtful when these are merely large examples of us just not being compatible in the long term.”

I say again why?

Why all this gentleness and treading on eggshells?

Why does the OP have to embark on this apparently delicate mission where the focus is on this man’s feelings?

He is not her patient.

He is not a company providing a service.

He is not owed ‘feedback’.

The feedback was that she broke up with him. That is all.

I agree with @TottersBlankly

You don't owe him 'feedback'- you've moved on. Your current relationship with him is bland and breezy and takes up no headspace. Why rock that boat?

I would instead choose to spend your own time, headspace and emotional energy reflecting on and committing to your own personal growth. See a therapist yourself to explore why you spend two years enduring this:

because he’s a self obsessed bore who lives in filth and if I hadn’t been feeling like such shit after splitting from exh I’d have probably legged it after the first date?

This is your truth. This is your frustration - with yourself. Who taught you to tolerate, accommodate and get stuck in at least two dreadful relationships - when your gut is saying leave.

Also explore what are your boundaries even now - why are you still in contact with, appeasing and potentially indulging this character?

Try to get something out of this situation for you. What is hard for you - to tell the truth? To say “No”? To drop the rope and move on? All of the above - maybe try one or some of the above for YOUR benefit. You gave him 2 precious years - others aren’t giving him a 2nd or 3rd date and you say you wouldn’t now - so be that person and do what that person would do now - not the old you.

Don’t be concerned about his “feelings” - he took no care of yours.

Even posters on this thread are in knots about how to ‘be kind’ and help a man.

An icky man who did little domestic work during a long marriage, doesn’t clean his home well or wash linen much, and boasts a lot.

@PyongyangKipperbang

"You asked so......

I really liked the way that you have such confidence in yourself and your talents, but sometimes it did get a bit much when you went on about how good you are at things, it made me feel quite inadequate in comparison at times!

I was happy to be with someone who was really relaxed about letting the small stuff go without getting all stressy about it, although (and if your friend cant tell you, who can?!) your home really does need to be kept cleaner! I didnt like having to bring my own sheets and towels over because you dont wash yours, its grim mate! If you find the right one, a lot of cleaners will do laundry too and they are really affordable.

I loved our time together and I wasnt lying when I said that I think I moved on too soon after my break up. It wasnt that I didnt care for you but that I realised that I need to love myself before I can properly love someone else (sorry for the self help crap!).

And maybe you didnt get past the first date because they just werent right for you, keep going, you will find her soon I am sure :)"

Or some shit sandwich-esque stuff like that!

Spot on

In reality it was because I realised you wouldn’t stop talking about how great you were - you’d cook a meal and say “this is restaurant quality food this, isn’t it? I’d happily pay £30 for this meal. I love being able to treat my girlfriend to an amazing meal without having to go to a restaurant”. When talking about work “I only have to work 6 hours a day because I do it so quickly. It’s not that I rush it, I only need to read it once and I’ve remembered it. Everyone else is there doing 10 hour days and I’m here laughing” etc, etc. That and the fact your house was filthy and I couldn’t bear staying there anymore. I hinted and hinted about getting a cleaner, bringing my own sheets and towels because yours were rank and you didn’t get it

@PyongyangKipperbang

"You asked so......

I really liked the way that you have such confidence in yourself and your talents, but sometimes it did get a bit much when you went on about how good you are at things, it made me feel quite inadequate in comparison at times!

I was happy to be with someone who was really relaxed about letting the small stuff go without getting all stressy about it, although (and if your friend cant tell you, who can?!) your home really does need to be kept cleaner! I didnt like having to bring my own sheets and towels over because you dont wash yours, its grim mate! If you find the right one, a lot of cleaners will do laundry too and they are really affordable.

I loved our time together and I wasnt lying when I said that I think I moved on too soon after my break up. It wasnt that I didnt care for you but that I realised that I need to love myself before I can properly love someone else (sorry for the self help crap!).

And maybe you didnt get past the first date because they just werent right for you, keep going, you will find her soon I am sure :)"

Or some shit sandwich-esque stuff like that!

But this is all lies! Why would anyone be so disingenuous - not just to him but herself?

She didn’t like the way he had such confidence or how relaxed he was about letting the small things go … her EXPERIENCE was this:

because he’s a self obsessed bore who lives in filth and if I hadn’t been feeling like such shit after splitting from exh I’d have probably legged it after the first date?

I'd be honest in a very kind way.
Use the praise sandwich technique.
Tell him what wonderful qualities the right woman will be happy to discover in him.

Then say, a new girlfriend might expect a cleaner fresher home so he might want to get a cleaner or a routine.

The boasting thing I might tackle as, you know, you are very enthusiastic about your life, which is lovely but some women might hear it as boasting or as insecurity. If you make a great dinner, just allow it to speak for itself. If you got your work done super quickly, just give yourself a mental pat on the back but maybe not out loud.

Then carry on about his lovely qualities.

@Loopytiles

Even posters on this thread are in knots about how to ‘be kind’ and help a man.

An icky man who did little domestic work during a long marriage, doesn’t clean his home well or wash linen much, and boasts a lot.

I think men do need feedback on how shite they are. I'm always happy to oblige when asked.

I think if he’s asked for feedback you don’t have to but you might want to, to help him and any women he dates in future.

Rather than the shot sandwich, have a look at the AID feedback model.

My phone clearly doesn’t like mild swear words.

Don’t be concerned about his “feelings” - he took no care of yours.

How do you know this? He might have been cooking because OP was too tired or busy to cook and those 'restaurant quality' dinners were a sign he appreciated she needed taking care of?

I have a lovely friend who could almost be your ex (except he hasn;t had a girlfriend for a while.) I need to gently tackle how filthy his house is but it;s hard, because he does actually have a routine of surface wiping, sweeping, laundry etc. It's just that there is deep filth and clutter that needs tackling.

OP don't listen to the gleeful spite that suggests you don't need to be kind because women shouldn't have to be kind to men. We should all be civil to people who have been central in our lives for that long.It's not a race to the bottom.

I'm sure you'll treat him with the consideration you'd want if you were sad at a failed relationship and asked for feedback.

But feedback happens during a relationship - back and forth, every day. (We all know lack of communication is very clear feedback.) When you’re in a relationship you each have strong motivation for listening to and acting on the feedback, because you want the other person to adore you.

The OP has already broken up with him. What motivation might he have for listening to her or acting on what she says? None whatsoever. The only motivation here is to get her to continue focussing as much attention as possible on him.