It looks like he is neurodiverse, what are the implications for me long term if I stay?

[Truthisout]

DH and I have been seeing a psychotherapist who we have spent hours with at a time, talking through our relationship. She's at the top of her profession and supervises other therapists. She is genuine and lovely.

DH and I have had problems for years. I've posted here under a range of usernames, expressed my thoughts that he may be autistic, been flamed for it countless times.

I let go of the autism idea a while back and sought some high end therapy for our relationship. It has therefore come as an unexpected surprise that she has openly suggested that DH is autistic after our last session with her.

DH will not explore this at all. Point blank. He did however do an online questionnaire which scored him as having a very low chance of autism after he answered many of the questions incorrectly. The problem though is that he really, genuinely believes that he has neurotypical traits. It has often been an issue that he sees himself differently to how others see him and thinks he's behaving politely and considerately when he isn't. I am an emotional, feeling, intuitive type of person- a little too sensitive at times so our personas really do conflict with each other as I often feel neglected, rejected and unloved here. He can also be very unappreciative, which could be completely unrelated to autism.

The label is not important to us one jot, BUT she has said that we would need to explore how to navigate our relationship differently if DH is autistic and that he would have to learn to recognise when I'm exhausted (I have an autoimmune illness which he struggles to acknowledge), when I need affection etc. DH is "very content" as he puts it, to live as housemates, as separate entities under one roof. This may be something I need to accept in the long term. The therapist wants him to "start playing to his strengths and stop trying to be something he isn't" which I thought was a great way of putting it and I think he ought to be more true to himself too. If we know what we're dealing with, we can navigate this together but he will not embrace or accept the possibility of neurodiversity.

So, I guess what I asking is what does life look like for me in the long term should I stay and accept that he will never explore this or come to any acceptance or find ways of navigating our relationship with his autistic needs in mind and my emotional needs?

If I was older, I'd be more inclined to stick around and accept this, but I am 34 years old with two young children and wonder if it may be easier for me to leave our marriage? And start again? I am so very exhausted by trying to have a relationship with a man I can not relate to.

He is very much an insular person who will become very absorbed in his own interests and I am tired of managing this and reminding him that his priorities lie with us, his family, his young children. What makes this difficult is that he's a very sweet, good person. Domestically, he's fantastic. He does more than any other men I know in the home, but emotionally and intimately, there isn't a lot here for me. Now and then, he will want a hug, physical closeness, sex but as soon as he has had his emotional/intimacy cup filled, he can go months without needing or wanting anything from me that is more than what a friend would want.

If any of my wording here has offended anyone, I do apologise but I am only just figuring this out and there may well be societal induced underlying prejudices that I'm not even aware I'm harbouring.

So, life for me in the long term, what does it look like? And should I leave or stay?

Being brutally honest, I guess it depends on whether you’re looking for a housemate and co-parent, or a husband, from what you’ve just said. Neurodiverse or otherwise, I’d argue it’s less important to know for sure and more important that you both agree on the importance of meeting each other’s needs as well as your own. If he can’t or won’t recognise that you have needs as well as him, and be willing to help/want to meet them , then you may be better off elsewhere.

I mean, to a degree, it’s debatable as to the extent that you should rely on other people for your emotional needs. But it’s not unreasonable at all to expect intimacy in a marriage.

Has he always been like this or have things got worse since you had kids?

Do you think he realises this is marriage-threatening? Do you think he is either willing and/or able to change behaviours?

Whether or not he is neurotypical, the key point for me is that he is unwilling to address the fact that you (and, I assume, your therapist and, if I'm understanding the implication correctly, other people in his life) find his behaviour and responses odd/hurtful/inappropriate at times. The main benefit to any kind of diagnosis, I think, is it that it provides the person involved AND the people around them, with a lens through which to understand certain behaviours. It does not act as an excuse for shitty behaviour.

You are young. You clearly want more from a relationship - more intimacy, more fun, more partnership - and I think it's perfectly reasonable to say that if he can't meet those needs, it's time to go your separate ways. Your children are young so perhaps the lack of sex isn't an issue for you, but what if down the line it is? What happens when the children are at school and you are doing ALL the thinking and organising and planning? What happens when the children are struggling emotionally and he's not able/willing to step up? You're just going to get more and more resentful.

It sounds like you accept who he is. great. But if that is NOT what you want, then it is time to move on. It's a pity because you've obviously gone through a lot, got married, had children etc. But.... it is what it is.

I think you can reasonably expect/ hope for a better husband/father version of him. By that I mean you can't change the fundamental make-up of your husband, and how he is deep down is as individual as anyone else. You can work together to find ways to make you happier together, if that is what you both want. If one of the two isn't interested in improving the other's wellbeing, and therefore the relationship, then that is something you need to consider carefully.
What I'm trying to say is that if your husband commits to working on your relationship, he will have to do his best on the way he can, just as you will do your best in the way you can. You can't expect a different person, just one who shows he's putting in the effort. Whether you accept that or not is your choice, but don't think that just because someone is autistic then they will never be able learn to modify their behaviour.

"If one of the two isn't interested in improving the other's wellbeing, and therefore the relationship, then that is something you need to consider carefully."

This is key really @seashellsunderthesand it's not that he doesn't care about me but he's bogged down by the rights and wrongs of any situation and because he can't put himself in my shoes easily, he struggles to empathise with what I'm saying. Things like "its perfectly reasonable to celebrate your birthday another day because I have a hobby commitment that day."
And...
"You can tolerate ONE late night, surely."
"You can't be ill, I've got x, y and z to do today. You're supposed to be looking after the children."
"It's not my fault that your mum isn't around to help us more. That's what other couples do, ask their mum to help. That's not my problem that your mum can't help."

It's not that he's being emotionally abusive, which is what I thought was going on. He was almost crying during our session as he genuinely couldn't see the problem his lack of understanding and empathy was causing.

What does your DH think when you remind him of those examples? Does he recognise with hindsight that he behaved unreasonably, and is willing to work on changing his approach? Or does he stand firmly behind what he said on each of these occasions and is unwilling to admit he was wrong?

If it's the latter, then I don't think trying to make this relationship work will be successful, whether he is autistic or not.

He stands firm @loganberryJam to a point that he's very upset and adamant because he wants me to see things his way because he believes 100% that he is right. He really struggles with empathy and just sees right and wrong. He'll get upset because he can't understand why he should see things any other way. He's not aggressive with it at all but will get teary and very confused.

The hobby one I agree with him on. You're an adult and can understand celebrating your birthday a different day.

The stuff about your mum is seemingly unrelated, what's his point there?

If he doesn't want to try to understand how you feel then that doesn't sound positive long term. You are young and a relationship should make your life easier (on average), at the moment it doesn't sound like this is the case.

You've invested a lot of time in trying to sort things out. It's not as if you've walked at the first sign of any issues.

I say this as someone with a child on the spectrum, multiple family members also, and probably in all honesty on it myself.

It's very difficult to get someone to be in the same place emotionally as you of they're programmed differently and see things in a black and white fashion.
Yes he can "rote learn" some of these things you hold dear, but he won't ever just get it.
And that poses a real dilemma for you. Carry on as you are, accepting that this is how things will be, pretty much as have been and maybe a few tweaks or you say this isn't what you want for yourself and leave, focussing on healing and possibly finding a different sort of relationship in the future, maybe.
With regards the specific examples, my thoughts....
"its perfectly reasonable to celebrate your birthday another day because I have a hobby commitment that day." Have the conversation that special occasions, you may need to name all and think wide, are special to the person, so should be celebrated on the day as this is important to the person and makes them feel valued/loved. If he cannot agree this in principle, then this is bigger than him being on the spectrum.

"You can tolerate ONE late night, surely." In isolation, I don't disagree with him. If it's everyday that's different. I get you have health issues also, but if you're also very rigid then you're asking him for him to compromise and be more flexible and you're not reciprocating.

"You can't be ill, I've got x, y and z to do today. You're supposed to be looking after the children." How often is this occurring? If it is a frequent thing, then maybe alternative childcare needs planning as a plan b. Is this disrupting his social or work life? And how much of this could you have carried on, but prefer not to? In context, going back to my first para, I've chronic conditions and have only had my child looked after once when I'll, even though I'm a line parent, it's what we do when parents... Equally if this is very rare, then he needs to recognise that as a parent, sometimes he has to prioritise his children over his plans when soemthing inadvertent such as illness arises.

"It's not my fault that your mum isn't around to help us more.That's what other couples do, ask their mum to help.That's not my problem that your mum can't help." What about his mum? Is he pulling his weight in terms of parenting? This one I get feels very harsh! But more context is needed.

Not sure if that helps at all...

I'm not sure if I fully understand any of your examples. I'm inclined to say if he doesn't get how his behaviour affects you then rightly or wrongly, you need to separate because you can't make each other happy.

Broadly, I agree that a hobby should not trump a birthday but it sort of depends on what is being asked and what the hobby is - eg I'd be pretty cheesed off if Dh just wanted to go to his usual running club on the day of a big birthday but would be more understanding if his band had a gig on the day.

If you are ill and it inconveniences him, I can understand his frustration. Is it a regular thing if you have long-term health conditions? In which case, perhaps you need alternative childcare solutions? It can be very frustrating if you constantly have to adapt your work for someone else (and I speak as someone who often has this with DH).

Tolerating one late night - I assume this is to do with your health? I'd be inclined to agree with you that he's being unreasonable but are there compromises that can be made? And are either of you willing to make them? eg a late night but he has to accept he's doing everything the next day because you can't or a slightly less late night?

The comments re your mum are incomprehensible so I don't know.

I can empathise with you on this as someone with a dh with ASD. I suppose the key difference with us is that dh was willing to be diagnosed and willing to if not see my point of view but accept that I am entitled to a different one if that makes sense? He does have a very innate sense of being right 100% of the time and I can tell that that is hard for him to overcome but he does try. We have also never had intimacy issues and the issues that we had with general affection we have found workarounds. Mostly we rub along well together but everything did improve massively once our kids got older(now teens) and we came out of the trenches of parenthood iykwim?

I think you have to forget the ASD though and figure out if he is the right person for you. If you aren't having a lot of your needs met then he isn't right for you, perhaps he too would be happier with more space to do as he pleases? It might be best for both of you in the long run?

I'm always really reluctant to post on these type of threads because I am so worried about phrasing things wrong and being jumped on so am struggling to articulate what I want to say properly, it's not wrong to put you first though.

I think it's important to say this. It's clear that you are putting time and energy into your relationship by getting help and trying to work on issues you both have. I don't think anyone on here can tell you whether your husband can/ will be willing to try to make changes because even with a diagnosis of autism we can't know him as an individual and seeing the world in black and white is definitely not limited to being on the spectrum, far from it.
One thing I would say is this. If your husband feels that the correct way is more important than the way that works best for you as a family, then that is a real problem. Trying to bring up children in a environment where being right is in the forefront in any discussion, rather than compromise or wellbeing, well that's a difficult task, especially if you, as you say, believe otherwise.

My husband is diagnosed autistic and is affectionate, loving and kind.

It's not the neurodiversity that's the issue here and I think you need to shift away from thinking about that, it's a red herring.

It's his personal behaviour and how it impacts you.

He is still the same person as he was the day before the (potential) diagnosis. He is still an individual. No one here can tell you what the future may hold, because we don't know him or you.

30 years on, as the one who has had to be flexible and manage my own emotions with no support, I'd say leave and start again. It's much easier when you expect nothing, than when you are constantly disappointed with what's available to you.

My only hesitation would be, do you trust him with unsupervised responsibility for the children? DH is a great dad in many ways, but underplays their health issues- he'd think calling an ambulance or going to A&E was over reacting , when it really wasn't. I was reluctant to leave them with him if they were ill.

It's not the neurodiversity that's the issue here and I think you need to shift away from thinking about that, it's a red herring. Wise words

@Truthisout

He stands firm *@loganberryJam* to a point that he's very upset and adamant because he wants me to see things his way because he believes 100% that he is right. He really struggles with empathy and just sees right and wrong. He'll get upset because he can't understand why he should see things any other way. He's not aggressive with it at all but will get teary and very confused.

So when you say he was crying during the therapy sessions, was that because he was upset that you wouldn’t see his POV, not because because realised how unkind he’d been to you?

I assume the comments about your mum not being there to help are due to her not living nearby or being unable to help due to her health, or other caring commitments. Or that she has died, in which case they are very cruel.

I often feel neglected, rejected and unloved

Take autism out of the equation. This is how you feel and you deserve a life where you don't feel like that.

He's an adult and if he's not keen on investigating whether or not he's ND, you can't expect things to change from his end. If he's happy with the way things are then you are screwed imo because however much you change yourself, he's going to be the same person. If he accepts that he can make changes in order to improve the relationship then you have a chance at things getting better but you need to accept that you can't bring up ND with him.

ND is often genetic. Do your kids have traits ? Some parents not realise that they are ND once their kids are diagnosed because they find out that what they considered "normal" isn't.

"think you have to forget the ASD though and figure out if he is the right person for you. If you aren't having a lot of your needs met then he isn't right for you, perhaps he too would be happier with more space to do as he pleases? It might be best for both of you in the long run?"
@RoastedFerret I think that's very relevant, thank you. I have suggested to him that with shared custody, he would have more time to do what he wants to but he has openly said that he holds back on separation due to financial implications- he's a big saver and very thrifty.

In terms of the examples I gave to other posters, I'd rather not go into the ins and out of these comments as there is a lot of back story etc. I was just trying to show the black and white thinking, that's all. There is a lot around all of the examples listed, so although I appreciate people posting to help, I'll just stick to the wider issue rather than address each detail.

This sounds so very similar to my friend and her partner. He denies it, but is clearly to all that know him, autistic.

She has come to terms with his limitations because he is a good dad (in terms of practical support and consistency - NOT in terms of emotional support) and a good provider who is good around the house.

What she doesn't get is romance, affection, or her emotional needs met in any way. He is obsessed with watching all sports and will prioritise this over her without thought. I would not be able to tolerate a relationship like this, but she thinks the good outweighs the bad, although she feels sad about it often. But she does worry about when the kids are grown and gone - she is going to be left with just him.

I often feel neglected, rejected and unloved

Ime autistic people might not understand why you feel neglected, rejected and unloved but will often try to stop those behaviours if told explicitly that they make their loved one feel neglected, rejected and unloved.

Even if he's ND it doesn't mean that you can't expect your needs to be met and not feeling neglected, rejected and unloved is perfectly reasonable.

@picklemewalnuts

30 years on, as the one who has had to be flexible and manage my own emotions with no support, I'd say leave and start again. It's much easier when you expect nothing, than when you are constantly disappointed with what's available to you.

My only hesitation would be, do you trust him with unsupervised responsibility for the children? DH is a great dad in many ways, but underplays their health issues- he'd think calling an ambulance or going to A&E was over reacting , when it really wasn't. I was reluctant to leave them with him if they were ill.

Everything you say here @picklemewalnuts resonates entirely. I'm sorry you stayed and have been continually disappointed. This is how I feel... I'm living in a loop of repeated disappointments with small rises of hope. You answer my question exactly as I was needing it to be answered I feel.

But, DH has no concept of illness, danger or DCs emotional needs. And I won't be there to meet those needs at times, which is a source of anxiety and worry for me should I leave.

You have commented on my previous threads actually and I always really appreciate what you have to say.

Thanks so much to lots of you. It's a really a good point that if I'm pointing out the way he's making me feel- it should matter to him and that isn't a symptom of ND if he doesn't.

You've been unhappy for years. He's not interested in engaging, sees no need to change.

I'd leave.