It looks like he is neurodiverse, what are the implications for me long term if I stay?

[Truthisout]

DH and I have been seeing a psychotherapist who we have spent hours with at a time, talking through our relationship. She's at the top of her profession and supervises other therapists. She is genuine and lovely.

DH and I have had problems for years. I've posted here under a range of usernames, expressed my thoughts that he may be autistic, been flamed for it countless times.

I let go of the autism idea a while back and sought some high end therapy for our relationship. It has therefore come as an unexpected surprise that she has openly suggested that DH is autistic after our last session with her.

DH will not explore this at all. Point blank. He did however do an online questionnaire which scored him as having a very low chance of autism after he answered many of the questions incorrectly. The problem though is that he really, genuinely believes that he has neurotypical traits. It has often been an issue that he sees himself differently to how others see him and thinks he's behaving politely and considerately when he isn't. I am an emotional, feeling, intuitive type of person- a little too sensitive at times so our personas really do conflict with each other as I often feel neglected, rejected and unloved here. He can also be very unappreciative, which could be completely unrelated to autism.

The label is not important to us one jot, BUT she has said that we would need to explore how to navigate our relationship differently if DH is autistic and that he would have to learn to recognise when I'm exhausted (I have an autoimmune illness which he struggles to acknowledge), when I need affection etc. DH is "very content" as he puts it, to live as housemates, as separate entities under one roof. This may be something I need to accept in the long term. The therapist wants him to "start playing to his strengths and stop trying to be something he isn't" which I thought was a great way of putting it and I think he ought to be more true to himself too. If we know what we're dealing with, we can navigate this together but he will not embrace or accept the possibility of neurodiversity.

So, I guess what I asking is what does life look like for me in the long term should I stay and accept that he will never explore this or come to any acceptance or find ways of navigating our relationship with his autistic needs in mind and my emotional needs?

If I was older, I'd be more inclined to stick around and accept this, but I am 34 years old with two young children and wonder if it may be easier for me to leave our marriage? And start again? I am so very exhausted by trying to have a relationship with a man I can not relate to.

He is very much an insular person who will become very absorbed in his own interests and I am tired of managing this and reminding him that his priorities lie with us, his family, his young children. What makes this difficult is that he's a very sweet, good person. Domestically, he's fantastic. He does more than any other men I know in the home, but emotionally and intimately, there isn't a lot here for me. Now and then, he will want a hug, physical closeness, sex but as soon as he has had his emotional/intimacy cup filled, he can go months without needing or wanting anything from me that is more than what a friend would want.

If any of my wording here has offended anyone, I do apologise but I am only just figuring this out and there may well be societal induced underlying prejudices that I'm not even aware I'm harbouring.

So, life for me in the long term, what does it look like? And should I leave or stay?

It is a myth that autistic people have no empathy. Please stop perpetuating this.

Also - completely inappropriate for a therapist who is not qualified to diagnose ASD is referring to you partner as autistic.

If you are not happy in your relationship then leave.

@EllieQ
So when you say he was crying during the therapy sessions, was that because he was upset that you wouldn’t see his POV, not because because realised how unkind he’d been to you?
For many people with autism, the sense of what's right/wrong that they really cannot see this.
For example, they may have done xyz but if this was followed by a wrong to them many find it difficult to see beyond this really strong wrong which is all encompassing.
If it is black and white, that is like a fact. And moving away from that is hard. Let alone to consider that someone would want something that isn't "right".

It was a suggestion that she wanted us to explore @scautish not a diagnosis.

So he doesn’t want you to leave because it will impact him financially?

How so? Are you able to survive financially without him?

He treats your relationship like an option not a priority.

I don’t think things will improve much over the years - he seems quite rigid in his thoughts

I've read and re-read, and I just can't see why you've replied to me with that sort of "tone" @ChoiceMummy? You seem to have said the same thing - that it's not autism itself which means a certain kind of behaviour.

So I maintain that a diagnosis either way isn't meaningful here - ignore it, it's not going to magically change or fix things here.

He seems quite rigid in his thoughts, but so do you.

You have to make a decision about staying (or not) regardless of his possibly neuro diversity.

Whether he has autism or not is irrelevant. You're miserable, your marriage is decidedly unhappy, and you don't want to live the rest of your life this way. Stop wasting money on that therapist and get a solicitor. Your husband isn't even remotely interested in helping himself or in being a good husband.

My experience is that the 'rational' trumps the emotional every time. On paper, that may not seem unreasonable- it's rational, after all- but over time it feels as if our emotions have become irrelevant.

I used to feel invisible. Now I simply live by his standards- I don't consider how he will feel about whatever I'm doing, I respond rationally to situations I'm not happy about. I argue rationally about what I want.

We're happy enough. It doesn't feel like the kind of relationship I thought I was entering though.

Interestingly we had a very illuminating conversation recently.

He said that people shouldn't need to change to be in a relationship, we shouldn't need to try to please each other, and that we should accept each other as we are.
That when you are courting you are trying to impress, to 'catch' your partner. That needs to stop when you are married, because that's the last thing you want in a partner, as they might 'impress/catch' someone else!
He saw it as a completely different mindset.

I asked him whether he stopped making any effort at work, once he'd passed the provisional period. He was stunned. Obviously you try your hardest at work at all times. It hadn't occurred to him that a relationship might need a similar approach.

It was revelationary for him, I should say. I'd worked out how he thinks about home life long ago!

I do think autism is relevant to how people organise relationships. It frustrates me that people think it might not be.
It's easy to say 'the autism is irrelevant, they are just an arse!'
Why would people need accommodations, if autism is irrelevant?

I do think autism is relevant to how people organise relationships. It frustrates me that people think it might not be.
It's easy to say 'the autism is irrelevant, they are just an arse!'
Why would people need accommodations, if autism is irrelevant?

For sure when you are in a relationship with someone with autism it is often relevant. It baffles me when people insist it isn't even when someone in that relationship is insisting that it is. Autism effects many things in my relationship for sure, we have mostly found workarounds and middle grounds and I have massively changed my style of communication but to pretend that is irrelevant is very disablist I think.

You are so young
It’s not really about the autism in my opinion.
It’s that you arnt happy and probably won’t ever be
I’m definitely neuro minority and my
Son is autistic

I met a lovely autistic chap old and we were friends for a while
His relationships ended for similar reasons

Maybe I’m a terrible person but I don’t really buy into the whole marriage for life

You have many more years ahead of you

ChoiceMummy
Sorry that made me wryly chuckle
My son is obsessed with unfairness perpetrated against him
He hold onto things from years ago and just cannot move past it in any shape
It’s - hard work

I think him having a diagnosis or not is a red herring. He sounds fixed and self absorbed. I don’t see why you and your children need to dance round that forever more. Why does your mother have to assist? They’re his children and not your mothers.

The way he responds to you being ill sound especially problematic and what is he saying exactly? Are you lying? Are you exaggerating?! Is what he has to do super super important (saving lies, finding a cure for cancer etc)? People get ill at inconvenient times all the time. Me having covid at Christmas wasn’t great for lots of people including me. It’s just the way it goes 🤷‍♀️

Regardless of the name for any potential diagnosis the issue I see is that when you ask for help that is not available (due to his internal rules) he doesn’t want to work with you to compromise or find a solution.

Moreover he overriding concern is wants to be clear it is not his fault.

@RoastedFerret

*I do think autism is relevant to how people organise relationships. It frustrates me that people think it might not be. It's easy to say 'the autism is irrelevant, they are just an arse!' Why would people need accommodations, if autism is irrelevant?*

For sure when you are in a relationship with someone with autism it is often relevant. It baffles me when people insist it isn't even when someone in that relationship is insisting that it is. Autism effects many things in my relationship for sure, we have mostly found workarounds and middle grounds and I have massively changed my style of communication but to pretend that is irrelevant is very disablist I think.

I don't think people are saying that autism isn't relevant within a specific relationship, just that in this case, the OP has to decide what she wants from their relationship, whether it be with someone who is autistic or not. Basically, if she decides for example, that unwillingness to modify any part of his life to make her, or their children's lives slightly better, might be her line in the ground. If he isn't able to do this, for whatever reason, whether it be due to a ND or not, she isn't willing to continue the relationship. It's a case of her deciding her own priorities, without taking into account whether the person can or cannot fulfil them. As the husband in question has not got a diagnosis it's all hypothetical, but even with a diagnosis we shouldn't presume how they are as a person or what they would be able to do or not do.

@Thisisworsethananticpated

ChoiceMummy Sorry that made me wryly chuckle My son is obsessed with unfairness perpetrated against him He hold onto things from years ago and just cannot move past it in any shape It’s - hard work

Snap. Mine is too!

@StrictlySinging

Regardless of the name for any potential diagnosis the issue I see is that when you ask for help that is not available (due to his internal rules) he doesn’t want to work with you to compromise or find a solution.

Moreover he overriding concern is wants to be clear it is not his fault.

Your comment about things going against his "internal rules" is spot on @StrictlySinging

The thing is those ‘internal rules’ he has in his head need updating to current circumstances of

‘Adult with adult relationship and shared life/parenting responsibility’

Could the therapist make any progress with him on that, have they explored with him what he feels his responsibilities are in his life scenario?

Does he feel any responsibility to adapt for the greater good?

If not why is he attending therapy with you? What does he want to achieve?

OP
I left my marriage to a man with autism. Sadly.
He sounds very similiar to your husband, brilliant domestically, honest (brutally so) sometimes very sweet & smart & funny.
But he also had an affection cup which he chose only to fill to suit himself. He treated sex like a game of tennis or a run. Purely physical and when he felt like it. Special interests etc

With us however the problems started with his diagnosis. Previously he would make an effort to go out/fit in, talk to people he didn't find a use for (I say that quite deliberately, as he struggled to be bothered with anything he wasn't interested in & that included people)

The second and I mean the very second he got his diagnosis he used it as a get out of jail free card. To the point of not going to my sisters wedding because he "didn't feel like it & I have autism so you can't get at me"
He decided he didn't like family holidays & enjoyed walking (read climbing ) holidays in highlands and completely refuse to countenance anything else as " I have autism "

I grew sadder & lonelier & my love for him hurt too much.
We lived increasingly seperate lives. I eventually had a brief emotional affair (inappropriate but absolutely not sexual) and I told him to try & explain how I felt & how lonely I was & how close I had come to hurting our marriage irrevocably. He made my life hell ( a great believer in RULES) and I had broken the rules.

I spent the worst year of my life & ended up having a nervous breakdown.

I left him with deep regret. He instantly switched to hate. (Only really embracing love or hate)
And I had the most horrific of divorces.

But I have a new partner who is empathetic and kind and loving and life is a partnership.

I miss my ex husband very very very much. But he was never ever ever going to make room for me. He even admitted that.
He now has a girlfriend he sees one day a week & that suits him & he lives exactly how he pleases with his special interests & continually ignores the needs of his kids. He has fully embraced selfishness and uses his autism as an excuse for his calculating & quite cruel behaviour.

And so it had to be this way.
I found this article quite helpful.

https://www.couplestherapyinc.com/cassandra-syndrome/

I wish I had better news. I wish I had managed to find a way to navigate, I wish my husband had agreed to counselling. I wish I had handled it better.

If I were you then I would leave & do it sooner than later.

To offer an alternative view: my fiancé and l are neurodiverse:
l have dyspraxia and dysgraphia, so does he. It effects us in slightly different ways, physically he feels the effects worse than me. Earlier in our relationship he was keen to say it’s super to hard for him to organise himself. Then tried to outsource it onto me . I can just about organise myself so how can l do him as well as me?! I said l won’t be deliberately obstructive but you need to take some responsibility for yourself. Until that point he had no diary, calendar or reminders on his phone. Then wondered why he forgot stuff all the time. Even if l didn't have dyspraxia then why would l basically take on his wife work?! Recently he tried to hit me up with the “you should have reminded me” nonsense, luckily my filthy look made him stop that line of defence

@Truthisout I’ve read your posts several times and I just don’t see the relevance of his autism? The issue is that he doesn’t want to compromise with you. Whether he’s autistic or not doesn’t really matter, surely?

He’s choosing not to compromise. Autism doesn’t take away free will.

It just seems like your marriage is over but you aren’t emotionally ready to accept that yet, which is okay but, again not really much to do with autism.

From previous replies I think you're probably already well aware that the problem isn't whether or not he's ND as such, it's whether or not he's willing to work harder at making your relationship work well for both of you.

DH is ND (autism and ADD) - he finds a lot of things difficult (realising that he needs to involve others in planning and not just make a plan and expect everyone else to play the role he's assumed they will play, admitting when he's done something hurtful or thoughtless and apologising, being in situations he's not in control of, understanding when he's imposing unrealistic standards on others - whether or not he himself fulfils those standards). The difference is if I tell him he's being hurtful he will try to understand why, and even if he can't understand exactly why, he'll try to change the behaviour.

The adjustments you make are often about the diagnosis - rebalancing household or caring tasks to play to each others strengths for example, or finding new ways to communicate things - but the success of the adjustments depends entirely on willingness to try.

@Scautish it's not a myth that some autistic people have no (or very little) empathy, I've known several (all men). And I'm not including those that feel empathy but find it hard to respond appropriately, which can be another problem.

I do agree with this @bluedodecagon

First thought is on the increase in discussion around relationship accomodations, like in - but as it says in the video, it has to be a collaborative effort and involve both parties being open.

Whether he's willing to do that or if you want to put in that energy only you two can decide.

What you perceive as kindness is in effect lying if you see the world in black and white.

That seems pretty black and white to me, and harsh to call kindness lying solely based on perspective.

@StrictlySinging

The thing is those ‘internal rules’ he has in his head need updating to current circumstances of

‘Adult with adult relationship and shared life/parenting responsibility’

Could the therapist make any progress with him on that, have they explored with him what he feels his responsibilities are in his life scenario?

Does he feel any responsibility to adapt for the greater good?

If not why is he attending therapy with you? What does he want to achieve?

This is a really helpful way to think.

You could sit him down and say something like-
'We need to make some changes for our marriage to work. There are things we need to adjust about how we see family life. Let's see if we can work out some guidelines:
Our opinions are equally valid, and need to have equal weight even when we think the other person is wrong.
Our feelings are important and need to be considered as relevant as more practical considerations.'

Etc.

Work together to draw up some new guidelines, making clear that if it's unsuccessful you'll break up and there will be financial consequences, and see if it helps.
It may, it may not, but you'll know you did all you could.