It looks like he is neurodiverse, what are the implications for me long term if I stay?

[Truthisout]

DH and I have been seeing a psychotherapist who we have spent hours with at a time, talking through our relationship. She's at the top of her profession and supervises other therapists. She is genuine and lovely.

DH and I have had problems for years. I've posted here under a range of usernames, expressed my thoughts that he may be autistic, been flamed for it countless times.

I let go of the autism idea a while back and sought some high end therapy for our relationship. It has therefore come as an unexpected surprise that she has openly suggested that DH is autistic after our last session with her.

DH will not explore this at all. Point blank. He did however do an online questionnaire which scored him as having a very low chance of autism after he answered many of the questions incorrectly. The problem though is that he really, genuinely believes that he has neurotypical traits. It has often been an issue that he sees himself differently to how others see him and thinks he's behaving politely and considerately when he isn't. I am an emotional, feeling, intuitive type of person- a little too sensitive at times so our personas really do conflict with each other as I often feel neglected, rejected and unloved here. He can also be very unappreciative, which could be completely unrelated to autism.

The label is not important to us one jot, BUT she has said that we would need to explore how to navigate our relationship differently if DH is autistic and that he would have to learn to recognise when I'm exhausted (I have an autoimmune illness which he struggles to acknowledge), when I need affection etc. DH is "very content" as he puts it, to live as housemates, as separate entities under one roof. This may be something I need to accept in the long term. The therapist wants him to "start playing to his strengths and stop trying to be something he isn't" which I thought was a great way of putting it and I think he ought to be more true to himself too. If we know what we're dealing with, we can navigate this together but he will not embrace or accept the possibility of neurodiversity.

So, I guess what I asking is what does life look like for me in the long term should I stay and accept that he will never explore this or come to any acceptance or find ways of navigating our relationship with his autistic needs in mind and my emotional needs?

If I was older, I'd be more inclined to stick around and accept this, but I am 34 years old with two young children and wonder if it may be easier for me to leave our marriage? And start again? I am so very exhausted by trying to have a relationship with a man I can not relate to.

He is very much an insular person who will become very absorbed in his own interests and I am tired of managing this and reminding him that his priorities lie with us, his family, his young children. What makes this difficult is that he's a very sweet, good person. Domestically, he's fantastic. He does more than any other men I know in the home, but emotionally and intimately, there isn't a lot here for me. Now and then, he will want a hug, physical closeness, sex but as soon as he has had his emotional/intimacy cup filled, he can go months without needing or wanting anything from me that is more than what a friend would want.

If any of my wording here has offended anyone, I do apologise but I am only just figuring this out and there may well be societal induced underlying prejudices that I'm not even aware I'm harbouring.

So, life for me in the long term, what does it look like? And should I leave or stay?

Have you considered that posters who you assume must be NT are themselved ND ?

He has NPD. You do need to leave. He's not autistic. That presents quite differently. Leave. Do it now whilst you are still young.

@Melsuleenia

He has NPD. You do need to leave. He's not autistic. That presents quite differently. Leave. Do it now whilst you are still young.

How do you know this? There is thought to be somewhat of an overlap between the two in some cases except NPD don't care of they hurt you, ASD don't realise they are.

Before our ds was diagnosed with asd I thought for a while that perhaps dh was a narcissist. Then going through the process I realised that dh probably had asd too especially given the family history on his side, he agreed and was indeed diagnosed with ASD.

I know this because the signs are blatant.

I have taught autistic kids. They present completely different from NPD. To the untrained eye they can look very similar.

For NPD and especially on here I look for sulking, intransigence, pa behaviours, changes in attitude when kids come along.

Some of the other behaviours are sleep interference, destroying property, lack of accountability, laziness, partners been driven into the ground. Creating drama on significant dates. Need I go on? It's pretty much the MN script.

Get out. Stay out. GOSO.

@Waterfordaston

“ Usually highly intelligent and actually want to help in the classroom”

Your generalisations suck. Seriously they do. Two of mine are autistic and believe me one is thick as mince. And neither have a single fuck to give about helping in the classroom.

There is so much wrong with that posters posts that Im agog she is a teacher, she claims.

She shouldnt be allowed near children.

I work with adults and children, with a myriad of disorders to those with no disorders, with MH, substance misuse, asylum seekers, various behavioural diagnoses, domestic violence, right across the board. Many many are on the spectrum, there are some characteristics which are often general and shared and some which arent.
Many young people on the spectrum, can struggle to regulate and as such do not present as loving and kind, many are not highly intelligent and some struggle behaviourally so much that they are a danger to themselves and others. Other people on the spectrum can be highly compliant and more overtly vulnerable in that way.

To be a teacher and come out with such nonsense is incredible, not to mention the online diagnosis.

Realistically what would a diagnosis actually achieve in this situation?

The thing with marrying a neuro diverse person is that the condition eg ADHD,ASD etc won't always be obvious at first;when real life sets especially when the children start arriving does it start to become more apparent your spouse isn't neuro typical.

Fundamentally your DH isn't well suited to a romantic relationship as it's clear he's unable to put anyone else's needs before his own.

If you remain married to him you're setting yourself up for a lifetime of unhappiness.With respect I don't think couples therapy will help;your DH will only be interested in what he needs;what you need is irrelevant and any changes he says he's willing to make will only be temporary.

You have the opportunity to live a life without being bogged down by this man;you deserve a man who wants an actual partner not a friend who he can occasionally use as a warm flesh light.

@fantasticplayground

being brutally honest it is tough going. took me years to understand my H but after that time and a lot of convos with his mum about him as a child etc, i accept he is autistic/adhd and will always exhibit those traits. in his mid 30s H is obsessed with gaming and researching stuff on wikipedia and reddit to the detriment of all around him (it has made him an inattentive father and husband, and he has no impulse control over going on his phone etc, wherever we are). he doesnt do small talk or chat, he also has no friends, no desire to make any, he is not self aware in public and he needs to be told to do everything or he will do nothing. the flipside is he is amazing at his very niche job, very focused and successful, and we have a nice life - but its not easy and i sometimes wish i had a partner who would just chat, socialise and have a life outside the home. it's lonely and frustrating a lot. i would not necessarily recommend you stay.

Exactly the same situation as above here. If I was younger/in your position I would not stay. I think being alone is less lonely and you have a great chance for a new relationship with true intimacy.

OP, I have such a similar story to yours, I actually checked the date to see if I'd ever voiced my feelings and that this was my own zombie thread.

I spent years feeling angry because I thought my dh didn't care about me. Now I know what's happening.

It's incredibly disabilist to say the ASC doesn't matter, it's just like saying "oh, I don't even see colour". It ignores the experience of those who are actuay disabled, or actually POC. They don't get to ignore it because it impacts everything they do and say.

My dh may appear to prioritise the wrong things. He may appear to be purely rational and uncaring.

HIS reality is that he finds emotional problems pretty terrifying because they cannot be dealt with following a proscribed set of rules, he shuts down and minimises like a professional.

If there is a drama, and he knows he must act, he will do what he has seen people do/ what is his duty.

Example would be, he can't see my symptoms, and has no clue about my medical problem, so doesn't ask because the answer might be difficult/ unpleasant/ something he can't fix.

When I rang him from hospital with chest pains, he insisted on coming and sitting with me, even though he had to make all sorts of complicated arrangements, even though I said I would truly be fine on my own, and it already looked as if I was fine. He said, "but you have to stay with someone if they're in A&E!" That was one of my first signs that his deciding making is based on some matrix or criteria in his head that doesn't seem to have anything to do with what's in front of him. If you try and dismantle the scaffolding/rules he's relied on his whole life he just looks lost or baffled. Which is why he finds the way I parent so difficult. If he has to do something out of duty, he will do it because he must, or worst case, out of fear. I am not interested in the kids being scared or pummelled into behaving in a was that makes everyone else feel comfortable.

If one of them is terrified at the thought of going to a party, I'm not going to make him go, just because we've RSVPd. DH has taken a long time to accept that the more you pressgang a child into behaving correctly, the more likely they are to have difficulties later.

We talked about separation and he was so upset. (He too has his fill of emotional/ intimate stuff, and then chugs on happily for a long time without a hug or even a warm word. He's not cold, or unkind, just friend- like. )

He said, in the end, that he could not see why I was so miserable, but he did not want me to be miserable, so if he needed to leave, he would.

I too, cannot imagine him sole parenting for any length of time.

I'm in my 50s now, but if I'd had a premonition, I hope that I would've found another way forward.

I can't wish our relationship away, but I wish we'd known earlier what the problem was.

If you have the strength to leave, I think perhaps you should. The problem for me now is that I cannot bear for DH to be alone, or for the kids to see him differently/ get angry with him, when it's not his fault.

It's all very well for pps to say "if he wants to he'll change". I don't know your husband, but I know mine has tried so hard, and I might as well ask him to carry me up Everest. He just CAN'T.

But that's MY choice, and now it's a choice I've made, not something foisted on me.

Good luck OP, I'll be interested to see how you go.

I'd say leave mainly on the basis that he doesn't accept your autoimmune condition. If you have a problem that's real then you can't have others behaving around you as if it's not real. If you say you're tired and he doesn't see any reason for that then is he thinking you're lazy or being difficult? If a doctor diagnoses you he should accept it, if he doesn't I can't see a relationship working.

Also if he won't acknowledge his own issue then any working around it won't come from him. It won't be him developing coping strategies to get through life or being upfront and honest about his capabilities so he doesn't end up letting you down, it'll be you developing strategies to cope with his behaviour towards you and in the relationship. I don't think it matters if it's illness, personality or whatever, if people don't take responsibility for themselves, including accepting their own downsides, then they become hard work for those around them. Which might be ok in a friend you see now and then but feel overwhelming in someone who you're trying to be a team with.

Housemates isn't necessarily a bad idea with the cost of living rising and you seem to still like each other. If you're going to be housemates then I'd divorce and be housemates living truly separate lives, living together to share chores, bills and co-parenting, but date who you like. Maybe with an agreement not to bring anyone home? Housemates who occasionally have sex isn't a marriage.

You sound incompatible to me. It doesn't matter if people think he's rude and inconsiderate, if he's happy with the way he is. It's his choice to change or not and accept the consequences of his decision. But how can you be in a relationship with someone who you think is rude and inconsiderate? If it didn't bother you, you wouldn't have mentioned it. We have to accept our partners for who they are, not try to change them. So incompatibility is another reason to split.

OP I think it is very telling that his reasons for not separating are financial. Not because of his love for you and his dc's. That must be very hurtful.

My DH is autistic and I do have to approach things differently for our relationship to work. But so does he! He puts every effort in possible to do this and gets anxious very easily if he can't see my viewpoint. I have to explain things very clearly to him but he listens and processes what I've told him. He struggles with empathy so I tell him what I or the kids are feeling and then that allows him to respond accordingly.

With regards to special events, he goes overboard with making Mother's Day, birthdays and Christmas special - sometimes the attention he wants to give is overbearing. I know that it's his way of making sure I know he loves me.

Your DH doesn't sound like he is willing to address any issues in the relationship, ND or not. It is hard enough navigating a relationship with a ND person anyway. I wouldn't have one with a person who wasn't willing to recognise that they needed to put in half of that work.

@nailsathome

My DH is autistic and I do have to approach things differently for our relationship to work. But so does he! He puts every effort in possible to do this and gets anxious very easily if he can't see my viewpoint. I have to explain things very clearly to him but he listens and processes what I've told him. He struggles with empathy so I tell him what I or the kids are feeling and then that allows him to respond accordingly.

With regards to special events, he goes overboard with making Mother's Day, birthdays and Christmas special - sometimes the attention he wants to give is overbearing. I know that it's his way of making sure I know he loves me.

Your DH doesn't sound like he is willing to address any issues in the relationship, ND or not. It is hard enough navigating a relationship with a ND person anyway. I wouldn't have one with a person who wasn't willing to recognise that they needed to put in half of that work.

Thank you so much for this kind and balanced post.

@Scautish oh you're very welcome! My husband is the most amazing man on the planet and would never want to be without him. He just processes things in a different way to me so I do what I can to understand him, exactly as he does for me.

He sounds lovely, @nailsathome! My husband is a good man, just a bit at sea with certain areas.
My lovely sons, one of whom has similar traits, are great- they've learned from watching us negotiate our way through problems and are a bit more like your husband! I can see them thinking 'I'm not going to be like that!' as they look at us, sometimes!
DS1 changes the subject at speed, when he sees a contradiction on the horizon. DS2 compromises and negotiates.

Just to clarify, they are adults, and there's nothing nasty happening- just me quietly refusing to be talked over/flat out contradicted. (DH tends to forget I'm a separate person- he'll turn the channel on the tv, or switch out the light without asking and so on. It took him ages to get cutlery out for me. He'd sit at the table with his knife and fork that he'd got out, while I plated up the dinners I'd cooked.)

Hi OP,
Being neurodiverse is a red herring.It doesn't matter if he is autistic or not, what matters is whether you feel you matter/are respected/are happy. Ignore the "possibly autistic" stuff. Why does it matter? He is who he is and if you don't feel happy and well matched then you should find someone you are happy with. Same for him.

Ask yourself why you're so hell bent on staying with someone who makes you so miserable?

I know you think something will make him change. He won't.

Please don't use autism as an excuse - it isn't a bargin bucket for unacceptable behaviour and it is at best abelist. I am autistic and these threads help to perpetuate damageing sterotypes.

Thing is he doesn't think that he could ever be a problem and that its up to you to change. He is calling the shots.
He won't fix his problems since he thinks the Universe should change for him not vice versa and he doesn't care if you are happy or not.

@SpidersAreShitheads

I'm autistic and have ADHD.

I have a burning sense of justice/injustice and I sometimes feel unbelievably frustrated that another person can't see what is BLINDINGLY obvious. I can't describe the strength of emotion that provokes in me.

I do try and see it from another person's perspective and I play devil's advocate in my own mind, just to check if I'm being reasonable with my expectations. It is really really hard when you're utterly convinced that you're 10000% correct that you might possibly be missing the point, or even - shock, horror - wrong.....

I'm very different to your DH as I have insight into my own traits and I'm very aware of my own neurodiversity. I never realised until quite recently that my views can be rigid or fixed - I genuinely thought it was just that I was right 🤦🏻‍♀️😅

So I guess what I'm trying to explain is a tiny bit from his perspective - that when you feel as if the "correct" answer is overwhelmingly obvious, it can feel very very very frustrating when someone else can't see what is CLEARLY the right answer/solution....it just feels unbelievable that they can't understand what's staring them in the face. It's really really hard to accept that you might be wrong when you feel something so deeply and vehemently!

I can imagine that it might have come as a shock to your DH to discover that he was being unreasonable. Or that his "facts" are actually no more than a subjective opinion which are open to interpretation and not as clearcut as he may have felt.

The only way I can describe is if you were holding a bag that was pink, and was very clearly pink, and someone tried to tell you it was blue. You can see it's pink, you are certain it's pink - and you can't understand why they think it might be blue. That can be how it feels like. It takes a lot to genuinely take a step back and consider that the reason why the bag might look pink is because of where you're standing and that maybe if you took a step to the left, you'd see the bag in a different light and then you might find that ACTUALLY it can look blue too....

You're asking what life looks like long term with an autistic person. I guess the main things would be is that we don't always see things that might be obvious to others. It might be frustrating that we didn't spot what might seem like an obvious consequence. But the problem is that every neurodivergent person is different. Our sensory needs are different, our emotional needs are different.

I have an autistic DS and DD. My DS has to be touching people all the time, hugging, stroking them, needs deep, hard hugs, constant contact. My DD is very different, doesn't like to be touched too much, likes light hugs and fleeting physical contact.

Some of us are over-empathic and over-emotional. We feel overwhelming emotions and can't cope with sad films or horror etc because it's just way too intense. Conversely, some of us are excellent at being really detached.

Basically there isn't a single life experience with someone who's neurodivererse. We are all very different and express ourselves in different ways.

We're not all mathematical geniuses who have no empathy and like to have the same cereal for breakfast every day. There are so many misconceptions about autism and other types of neurodiversity.

But back to your specific problem - the way it's often described is that we all have cups that need to be filled. Your DH's emotional cup seems quite small so it gets filled very easily and with a small amount of affection. Your cup is much larger and needs a lot more. That's an issue.

Being blunt, how did you get to the point of marriage and DC with this man? It feels as if you are hugely mismatched in terms of your emotional needs. I'm surprised that this hasn't come up before as a major issue? No judgement implied. I'm just wondering if it was because he made more of an effort before, or whether it was because you were willing to overlook your needs because he's a "good, sweet man"?

I hate to say this but I think you should probably leave. There will be other women who may be better suited to him in terms of needs, and I fear that you'll always feel short-changed and second-best. You deserve to feel loved and important, and it doesn't sound as if he makes you feel that way. You're young - imagine being in this relationship, with this level of emotional engagement for the next 20 years, how does that feel? Your emotional response to that thought should tell you what you need to know.

@spidersareshitheads Just want to say the biggest thank you for your post. For explaining the many outcomes and traits of being ND and still being understanding of my own position too.

DH did an online quiz for autism and came out as having low chance of autism which really frustrated me as many of the questions centred around sensory intolerance. He's the total opposite like one of your children- He's all bright lights, loud music, loud talking,TV on, all at the same time and doesn't notice. He sleeps with the curtains open in summer, has his showers so hot, it burns his skin, brushes his teeth so hard that his gums bleed. Whenever I drive the car when he's been in it, I jump out of my skin, because the window wipers come on full, I'm blasted by the heaters on full, loud music on full volume. But he likes his environment to be noisy and busy.

But he doesn't like too much physical, intimate touch.

I was so annoyed by the quiz, as you say, there isn't a set way that ALL ND people are.

Just want to say a big thank you to everyone who has posted, for trying to offer support. I've read each and every reply more than once.

I'm still contemplating my future, still reflecting on all the advice I've been given here, I've a bit of reading too.

On a side note- I always thought his mother was a narcissist, but now I'm wondering if she is also ND- most here would call it NPD I'm guessing though. She comes across as quite rude and highly critical. His father also has no friends, is very routine orientated, very serious, doesn't respond to jokes, loses his temper easily about small things. There is no warmth towards me from them at all and DH clearly still feels an obligation to please them, seeks their advice and approval, clearly still adhering to deep seated personal rules. I find it extremely difficult to be around them- they know nothing about me and never seek to find anything out. His parents generally just talk AT me about all their special interests. I have to remind his parents regularly that I am not vegetarian- they have me mixed up with someone else.

A big part of me feels smothered by ND/these personality traits (whatever it may be) and very invisible, not just to DH, but to his wider family. He clearly feels a lot of obligation towards his parents and probably a personality connection. He has distanced himself a lot since we married, but it's still a huge problem that I feel miserable in the presence of his parents, whilst he feels conent.

Part of me wants to leave the whole family, give myself the opportunity of finding warmer inlaws that smile, laugh, acknowledge my presence. They never say I look nice if I make an effort but will tell me I look "rough" whenever I've had a bad night with the children. I have to point these things out to DH for him to take notice of how they are with me.

A big part of me just wants to get off the family train, aswell as being unsure about whether I can continue being married to DH.

re. your last post OP, I have often wondered if there is a genetic link between autism and NPD. Not saying they're the same here, before anyone jumps on me. So it doesn't surprise me what you say about his family. I seem to have a similar kind of pattern in my own family, which has made me wonder ...

Anyway, back to the main point. I really think you will be happier if you leave. Its sounds pretty poor way to live . You are still young. I also "got" your examples very easily - how frustrating for you to have these kinds of conversations. The 'autism' issue is relevant in one way but not the whole story - as there are so many ways autism is expressed. Its an umbrella term, not even a spectrum. It varies so much from person to person, and no one size fits all by any means, in my opinion.

I should add I have a young adult son who I suspect has underlying autistic traits, which makes life difficult for him. He was an absolute nightmare as an argumentative, intransigent and impulsive teen and the day he left home was a super-relief. However, we do get on better now. He can be a super, lovely, intelligent and funny and kind person, but I could not live with him probably for more than two days! Perhaps you would have that kind of more friendly relationship if you were separated. Regardless, Life's too short to live with someone who makes you miserable and angry, bottom line.