It looks like he is neurodiverse, what are the implications for me long term if I stay?

[Truthisout]

DH and I have been seeing a psychotherapist who we have spent hours with at a time, talking through our relationship. She's at the top of her profession and supervises other therapists. She is genuine and lovely.

DH and I have had problems for years. I've posted here under a range of usernames, expressed my thoughts that he may be autistic, been flamed for it countless times.

I let go of the autism idea a while back and sought some high end therapy for our relationship. It has therefore come as an unexpected surprise that she has openly suggested that DH is autistic after our last session with her.

DH will not explore this at all. Point blank. He did however do an online questionnaire which scored him as having a very low chance of autism after he answered many of the questions incorrectly. The problem though is that he really, genuinely believes that he has neurotypical traits. It has often been an issue that he sees himself differently to how others see him and thinks he's behaving politely and considerately when he isn't. I am an emotional, feeling, intuitive type of person- a little too sensitive at times so our personas really do conflict with each other as I often feel neglected, rejected and unloved here. He can also be very unappreciative, which could be completely unrelated to autism.

The label is not important to us one jot, BUT she has said that we would need to explore how to navigate our relationship differently if DH is autistic and that he would have to learn to recognise when I'm exhausted (I have an autoimmune illness which he struggles to acknowledge), when I need affection etc. DH is "very content" as he puts it, to live as housemates, as separate entities under one roof. This may be something I need to accept in the long term. The therapist wants him to "start playing to his strengths and stop trying to be something he isn't" which I thought was a great way of putting it and I think he ought to be more true to himself too. If we know what we're dealing with, we can navigate this together but he will not embrace or accept the possibility of neurodiversity.

So, I guess what I asking is what does life look like for me in the long term should I stay and accept that he will never explore this or come to any acceptance or find ways of navigating our relationship with his autistic needs in mind and my emotional needs?

If I was older, I'd be more inclined to stick around and accept this, but I am 34 years old with two young children and wonder if it may be easier for me to leave our marriage? And start again? I am so very exhausted by trying to have a relationship with a man I can not relate to.

He is very much an insular person who will become very absorbed in his own interests and I am tired of managing this and reminding him that his priorities lie with us, his family, his young children. What makes this difficult is that he's a very sweet, good person. Domestically, he's fantastic. He does more than any other men I know in the home, but emotionally and intimately, there isn't a lot here for me. Now and then, he will want a hug, physical closeness, sex but as soon as he has had his emotional/intimacy cup filled, he can go months without needing or wanting anything from me that is more than what a friend would want.

If any of my wording here has offended anyone, I do apologise but I am only just figuring this out and there may well be societal induced underlying prejudices that I'm not even aware I'm harbouring.

So, life for me in the long term, what does it look like? And should I leave or stay?

@ChoiceMummy

The autism is completely irrelevant. It doesn’t matter what they disagree on, just that they disagree and he won’t budge.

Plenty of women don’t want to do 100% of the housework, but they still do it. They do it because they have to. They make the decision to do something that they’d rather not do because they have to to keep their relationships together.

There is absolutely no law that says that autistic people do not have to make compromises in relationships just like Neurotypical people have to make compromises. Autistic people are not robots or automatons. They still have agency over their behaviour. If he doesn’t want to compromise, he doesn’t have to.

"Rigidity in the way people with autism can think, ie black and white, can make it very difficult for them to compromise, read impossible for some."

Again - you can delete the words "with autism" there though can't you?

I've met plenty of supposedly neurotypical people who refuse to compromise or listen - on this very thread for example

Any other autistic people appreciating how much we are learning about autism from NT people talking about us with so much compassion and insight?

Maybe if I keep reading I will learn how to be empathetic and not think in such black and white terms?

Scautish

It’s never a pleasant read is it
I have an autistic son and I worry
I do beleieve very strongly that men and women present differently
And I don’t believe this lack of empathy
It’s just a correlation of some men + autism
Not all men
Not all autistic men

@Scautish

Any other autistic people appreciating how much we are learning about autism from NT people talking about us with so much compassion and insight?

Maybe if I keep reading I will learn how to be empathetic and not think in such black and white terms?

Well let's face it your posts are hardly dripping with this compassion and empathy you keep talking about are they? Is it one rule for you and one for everyone else?

Its a shame OP that you say you got flamed for talking about/presenting in other threads that your OH might have autism. It is relevant and there are common traits that many people on the spectrum share, many of those including lack of empathy or at least the ability to show it and respond to it are part of the diagnostic process, its no the only thing to consider but one of many.

Black and white thinking means that areas of compromise are very difficult and is he able to get to a level where he can at least consider some of the plans of action other posters have set out.

I found this very interesting and for me a very good way of explaining the communication and black and white issue when I couldn’t.

www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/23311908.2017.1283828

Look for the term ‘reciprocated interaction’.

I'm diagnosed autistic, so is my husband, brother and brother in law, and some of my friends. I studied it and read about it for years. And you have the breathtaking arrogance to tell me to get educated about it all?

If you're a white person, do you also wander telling black people to get educated about race?

Maybe to you we're this weird amorphous blob of creatures who all think and act in the exact same way, but sorry to disappoint - everyone I know with a diagnosis is a unique person, with different personalities, outlooks, approaches, abilities, constraints and lifestyles despite the same diagnosis.

Our diagnoses were helpful personally for us to understand ourselves and try to manage the world around us. It didn't change who we are fundamentally.

The OP knows her husband. She knows who he is and what he's like. So how will a formal label by a professional change things?

I mean, I can see how they help people like you to categorise, stereotype and dismiss people and maybe that's it, a need to label. (Cough, black and white thinking there, watch yourself.)

But a diagnosis here won't help the OP magically get the relationship she wants or suddenly enjoy the current one more. It's not going to make her husband go "oh my god you're right I'll change everything about myself and who I am to please you!"

I'm autistic and have ADHD.

I have a burning sense of justice/injustice and I sometimes feel unbelievably frustrated that another person can't see what is BLINDINGLY obvious. I can't describe the strength of emotion that provokes in me.

I do try and see it from another person's perspective and I play devil's advocate in my own mind, just to check if I'm being reasonable with my expectations. It is really really hard when you're utterly convinced that you're 10000% correct that you might possibly be missing the point, or even - shock, horror - wrong.....

I'm very different to your DH as I have insight into my own traits and I'm very aware of my own neurodiversity. I never realised until quite recently that my views can be rigid or fixed - I genuinely thought it was just that I was right 🤦🏻‍♀️😅

So I guess what I'm trying to explain is a tiny bit from his perspective - that when you feel as if the "correct" answer is overwhelmingly obvious, it can feel very very very frustrating when someone else can't see what is CLEARLY the right answer/solution....it just feels unbelievable that they can't understand what's staring them in the face. It's really really hard to accept that you might be wrong when you feel something so deeply and vehemently!

I can imagine that it might have come as a shock to your DH to discover that he was being unreasonable. Or that his "facts" are actually no more than a subjective opinion which are open to interpretation and not as clearcut as he may have felt.

The only way I can describe is if you were holding a bag that was pink, and was very clearly pink, and someone tried to tell you it was blue. You can see it's pink, you are certain it's pink - and you can't understand why they think it might be blue. That can be how it feels like. It takes a lot to genuinely take a step back and consider that the reason why the bag might look pink is because of where you're standing and that maybe if you took a step to the left, you'd see the bag in a different light and then you might find that ACTUALLY it can look blue too....

You're asking what life looks like long term with an autistic person. I guess the main things would be is that we don't always see things that might be obvious to others. It might be frustrating that we didn't spot what might seem like an obvious consequence. But the problem is that every neurodivergent person is different. Our sensory needs are different, our emotional needs are different.

I have an autistic DS and DD. My DS has to be touching people all the time, hugging, stroking them, needs deep, hard hugs, constant contact. My DD is very different, doesn't like to be touched too much, likes light hugs and fleeting physical contact.

Some of us are over-empathic and over-emotional. We feel overwhelming emotions and can't cope with sad films or horror etc because it's just way too intense. Conversely, some of us are excellent at being really detached.

Basically there isn't a single life experience with someone who's neurodivererse. We are all very different and express ourselves in different ways.

We're not all mathematical geniuses who have no empathy and like to have the same cereal for breakfast every day. There are so many misconceptions about autism and other types of neurodiversity.

But back to your specific problem - the way it's often described is that we all have cups that need to be filled. Your DH's emotional cup seems quite small so it gets filled very easily and with a small amount of affection. Your cup is much larger and needs a lot more. That's an issue.

Being blunt, how did you get to the point of marriage and DC with this man? It feels as if you are hugely mismatched in terms of your emotional needs. I'm surprised that this hasn't come up before as a major issue? No judgement implied. I'm just wondering if it was because he made more of an effort before, or whether it was because you were willing to overlook your needs because he's a "good, sweet man"?

I hate to say this but I think you should probably leave. There will be other women who may be better suited to him in terms of needs, and I fear that you'll always feel short-changed and second-best. You deserve to feel loved and important, and it doesn't sound as if he makes you feel that way. You're young - imagine being in this relationship, with this level of emotional engagement for the next 20 years, how does that feel? Your emotional response to that thought should tell you what you need to know.

@NarrowHippedVixen Your post wasn't showing when I wrote mine. I see we've both made the same point about ND folk all being different and no single shared personality!!

I think we've defeated our own argument by saying the same thing in tandem - clearly we do just share a single brain and have the same personality after all 😅😅😅😅

This just sounds like yet another ‘red herring’ when you’re unhappy in the relationship but don’t want to leave. You’ve been unhappy for some time yet still considering staying for a long future likely to be yet more of the same!

As you say you’re only 34 and have two young DC, considering the option of leaving: do that!
Seems a much better option in terms of prospects for you and your DC.

Would also stop spending money on the therapist. If you do spend money on therapy, would go alone to someone without a vested interest in the status quo.

When my husband left suddenly I spent years trying to work out why. What was going on in his head that would lead him to do this? Was he depressed, in a mid life crisis, a covert narcissist, a brain tumour? I think trying to find a reason, a diagnosis of his behaviour was all about trying to get some control in a situation where I had none. After a lot of money spent on therapy I decided that I would never know why and I had to live my life in the best way for me and my children looking forward.

OP you have got a top end therapist who confirms your suspicions that your husband has behaviours that are ND. It is your husband's reaction to this that is important. If he can make changes that acknowledge that his way of thinking is not the only way then there might be hope. If he can't then you have given it your best shot and it is time to plan a separate life. Might this be a way of taking control?

Sorry you got flamed. The ‘autism community’ can be toxic, and I say this as an autistic person. Everything is ableist, we can’t be criticised, etc.

I don’t think you sound compatible, to be autistically honest. If he’s insistent that he’s right, you can’t really get around that. I had a few ‘rules’ that maybe were inconsiderate, but when it was explained to me, I understood that there was context I hadn’t grasped, and changed the rules. Your birthday does not get deprioritised behind his hobby. Wtf. That is a rule that needs to go immediately.

I will say that when the ‘affection cup’ is full, it’s not always a case of ‘I could give more, but I won’t, since I’ve got what I want, screw everyone else’. It can be more like, I have given everything I can and if anyone touches me it feels awful and violating, I have to recharge before i can do affection stuff again. In my case, that’s why I’m happy single and would do better with a non-living-together relationship. I was constantly violating this to please NT partners and it was really bad for me.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do. I think the key is ‘if he wanted to, he would’ - so go by his actions, not his intentions or expressed emotions.

SpidersAreShitheads

One of the best ways to understand my son is learning from autistic adults

As he has the same justice issue 😁
Oh yes , and he’s 14 and not as mature or self aware as you
I’m getting there - the challenge is getting my younger son there
I understand it but the 11 year
Old thinks he’s being a wanker 🙈

I am going through something similar OP. I don't think I can handle it anymore. My dh also had a psychotherapist say he's more than likely autistic. To those saying their dh is asd and very loving it doesn't mean anything because it's a spectrum. Some people are loving some people aren't.

My dh is very cold but not on purpose I can see he really doesn't want me to leave him because when it's obvious I'm getting too agitated in my marriage he really tries to copy what he perceives as comforting me. I'm sure he loves me in his way but it's so robotic and cold some days it really is hurtful even though I know he isn't doing it on purpose.

My dh too is black and white OP and fails to realise when things like special events mean something to others. Mother's Day is coming up. Every year I say please can you just book a meal. Every year he doesn't do it and sits back and says he phoned one place and they didn't have any space so we're staying in doing nothing. I'm very very sure he isn't trying to get out of it but he misses the point that he could always try booking earlier than the day before/try somewhere else/do a different activity. I generally forgive him but emotionally I am so numb now after ten years of this. I miss genuine affection so much. I think eventually I will leave him but I also feel guilty about it because I do really care for him too. Like your dh mine does lots around the house but the lack of affection for me is getting too much.

@TirisfalPumpkin Nobody is saying it's ableist to criticise the OP's husband. What people are objecting to is generalisations about autism that have actively harmed autistic people in the past, plus the general Mumsnet attitude that we're too much work to bother being in a relationship with.

I know that you are trying hard to keep your marriage together and you going to counselling to help you get through the issues you currently have with your husband. The person you are going to feels that your husband has autism.

Theses are the things I noticed from your post
Your husband is very black and white in life and they are no shades of grey.
He happy with the odd bit of sex, cuddles ect and then does not want this again for age's
He does not seem to notice that things have to be done or be willing to pickup the day to day slack of being married and with young children.
He is unwilling to change his plans even when he knows he is needed elsewhere
He is not keen that you separate because it will cost him money and he is thrifty and has savings.
He seems to think that the world revolves around him and his want's but as a married man with kids this can't always happen.

I think at this stage you had enough of doing all the heavy lifting at home. Your sorting out most things, probably all the child minding and ok he does house work. How often does he take the kids out for a few hours to let you rest or have a brake? You just seem to be making all the effort. Despite being told things he ignores what your telling him. He refuses to make any changes that would improve your marriage and make thing better for you and his children.

I have a lot of married friends with children from toddlers to twentys. Several of them had a period of time when one person was carrying the load more than the other person. These were decisions made together by the couple and the person carrying more of the load got time off and knew after a certain period of time that things would change and easier times would come.

I think in your current situation you know that your husband is not willing to work on making any improvements to make your life easier and your marriage better. I think if you stay with him your just going to resent him and all the work your doing to keep the show on the road. Meanwhile your kids are growing up and seeing things getting worse between you and him. They could hear you and him fighting or grow up in a house with a bad atmosphere always.

You and your children deserve better than this. I know it not easy to end a bad marriage but sometimes you better ending things and remaining civil with your ex-husband. Get all your financial things together and get legal advice re a divorce. Also bring his pension details as in time this could be valuable.
Make sure that maintenance and children's visiting your husband are sorted out.

THIS IS AS GOOD AS IT GETS.

It's a special sort of heartbreaking when a lovely man isn't able to fully reciprocate in his relationship. I haven't phrased that well, I can't think of a better way.

If I described some of DH's behaviours, he'd be slated as abusive/uncaring/an arsehole. He really isn't, he's a lovely man who can't see the profound affect of some of his behaviour, and doesn't think it's reasonable to change. He's got the idea that somehow, being married means accepting each other just as we are, rather than adjusting to and for each other until we are both comfortable.

Like everyone else, he finds it hard to 'hear' things that don't fit his world view, so no amount of talking about it helps.

I'm very well trained though, so we rub along fine!

@Scautish

Any other autistic people appreciating how much we are learning about autism from NT people talking about us with so much compassion and insight?

Maybe if I keep reading I will learn how to be empathetic and not think in such black and white terms?

Come on then, give us an education.

We shouldn't have to keep saying that we're human beings, variable and full of contradictions, just like you.

It's hurtful and it's rude and mean.

Is that your intent?